Interesting facts about winning percentages

[TheDouglas78]

Ron Zook:

8-5 = 61.5%
8-5 = 61/5%
7-5 = 58.3%
Avg = 60.5%


So by this logic Zook is better than Spurrier, Saban, Donovan and Muschamp?

 

[Turk182]

I wondered why Zook and Meyer weren't included.

 

[deuce]

Ron Zook:

8-5 = 61.5%
8-5 = 61/5%
7-5 = 58.3%
Avg = 60.5%


So by this logic Zook is better than Spurrier, Saban, Donovan and Muschamp?

Never said Muschamp was better than anyone. Just posted the winning percentage and let the dogs out.

:angry:

 

[deuce]

I wondered why Zook and Meyer weren't included.

Too lazy to do the math.

 

[deuce]

Yeah, as much as I defend Muschamp, it's not really a fair comparison. None of those programs were established when Saban, SOS, and Billy took over. I will say that Muschamp was doomed in 2011 no matter what happened, and that he rebounded tremendously in 2012. But even I'll say he's lucky to still have a job at UF after last season. Hell, I thought he was finished after the Vandy game. If it wasn't for 2012, Muschamp wouldn't still have a job, and he's obviously coaching for his life this year.

Just throwing the figures out for general consumption.

 

[TheDouglas78]

I wondered why Zook and Meyer weren't included.

Meyer:
8-3 = 72.7%
9-3 = 75%
10-2 = 83.3%
AVG = 75%

 

[deuce]

Thanks for your slanted opinion.

No, really. This thread is a major major failure. It's a fact. Sorry.

Comparing me to Phil Steele is is really not necessary but Thanks anyway.

 

[TheDouglas78]

I wondered why Zook and Meyer weren't included.

Too lazy to do the math.

Or you choose the numbers/people who fit the argument you were trying to provide. Obviously by your responses to others you didn't want Meyer or Zook added because they would convolute your obvious goal. You were more than displaying facts, which was proven by your responses to other members.

 

[EuroGator]

In looking at the first three years winning percentage of well known Coaches at their first Major college job. Something interesting shows up.

Nick Saban at MSU -
6 - 5 - 1 = 50%
6 - 6 = 50%
7 - 5 = 58%
Avg: 53%

Steve Spurrier at Duke -
5 - 6 = 45%
7 - 3 - 1 = 63%
8 - 4 = 66%
Avg: 58%

Billy Donovan at UF -
13 - 17 = 43%
15 - 16 = 48%
22 - 9 = 71%
Avg: 54%

Will Muschamp at UF: -
7 - 6 = 54%
11 - 2 = 85%
4 - 8 = 33%
Avg: 57%

It looks like WM is 1 point behind SOS but 3 above BD and 4 better than Satan.

I'll be his Huckleberry. Above is his first post in it's entirety. Many of you seem outraged that he posted this, perhaps because you're assuming that he's trying to say that Muschamp's quality as a coach are on par with Saban, Spurrier and Donovan. I read back through the thread and I can't find where he implied this or made that assertion.

I would have interpreted the stats he shared (and his motive for sharing them) differently. I would have assumed that he was trying to say that the jury can still be out on Muschamp. I look at these numbers and the consistency of some posters to insist, every chance they can take, to declare with certainty that Muschamp is a bust and there is no doubt about it. Some act as if we are only waiting for the inevitable to play out - that Muschamp will fail. I look at these numbers and I realize that Muschamp may not be a good enough coach to be at a place like UF. ...but I also think there's a good chance that he might be a success. These numbers say to me that new head coaches:

• are coming into the job for the first time and may need to learn some things
• don't always have rosters that are suitable
• might not display great ability to win immediately - even if they have it. It might take a few years

In my opinion, this is the year. I see that he hasn't had good offensive coordinators (due to his own choosing) and he had all of the breaks go his way in 2012 and none of them went his way in 2013. I think this is the year he's got to turn it around "for good" as he has had time to make the roster "his," he's on his third OC (he has to be accountable for choosing and working with him well), and if he hasn't gotten depth enough to withstand the issues that he will face.

I don't know if this reflects what deuce coupe was thinking (or one of the things he thought might be taken from these numbers, but I think it is a reasonable conclusion to make and for this, he didn't need to list Zook & Meyer. He only needed to list some examples of great coaches whose first three years didn't differ greatly from Muschamp's.

 

[GIGator]

Which one of those guys was a 50% coach at a top five program? Only one. Each of those other guys took over shiiit programs in the bottom of their league and made them into championsip contenders. Their records IMPROVED after a rough start. One of those guys took a top program and made it into a cellar dweller. It's basically the exact opposite of what Spurrier and Saban did.

And none of them were too stupid to know you had to score to win.

Some of you are quite desperate to make Mr. Missing Chromosome Dwag into anything but Gator Coach with the worst record (two losing SEC seasons) in the last 50 years. Dogcramp will be known for ruining the championship defense that Meyer left with his mentally handicapped offensive ideas.

Meyer sent our program to the cellar and those other coaches got to learn at a smaller school, where losing is forgiven. None of them experienced a year where they lost most of their key players either. I'm willing to give Muschamp the benefits of doubt, this year. If things don't improve, then it will be time to make a change. Until then, getting behind him and the team, is what a loyal fan would do.

 

[deuce]

Careful Euro, the pack might chew your leg off.

I'm not a Muschamp supporter, I'm a Florida Gator supporter. My support will continue whoever the HC is, I've been here since Ray Graves, and I'll be here until my Gator Heart stops beating. (unless they hire Kiffin) :hehehe:

How do I feel about Muschamp? Disappointed might be the best word to use. I liked the hire and was excited with the possibility of more passion from the HC but I am disappointed at what I consider to be his stubbornness and resistance to change based on the available talent. :angry:
I was willing to give WM some time to grow, learn and recruit players that fit his "type" of football but I'm now at the end of that patience. There must be obvious signs of progression on the field this year. The team doesn't need to be undefeated but it must be competitive and exciting to watch again. Unlike many, I don't have a "number of wins" in my head that will be acceptable but I expect our record to indicate that last year was a abnormality and that playing the Gators will once again cause strong men to quake. No more excuses, no more pumping, no more "wait until next year".

I still think WM will become a very successful HC, maybe that will happen here or somewhere else.

I do know that starting over is always a temporary step back but that seems to be acceptable to many if the end result is a better product.

When I think about coaching change, I think about Cleveland and Bill Belichick... Bill definitely wasn't successful early on and the fans demanded his ouster but I wonder if looking back maybe they should have given him a little more time to develop into the Coach that he would become. (wait for the angry post - "Muschamp ain't no Belichick"). But maybe being fired in Cleveland was what Bill needed to continue growing, who knows? Certainly not me.

After all, "I can't see caca!"

Thanks Euro for the post.

 

[deuce]

In looking at the first three years winning percentage of well known Coaches at their first Major college job. Something interesting shows up.

Nick Saban at MSU -
6 - 5 - 1 = 50%
6 - 6 = 50%
7 - 5 = 58%
Avg: 53%

Steve Spurrier at Duke -
5 - 6 = 45%
7 - 3 - 1 = 63%
8 - 4 = 66%
Avg: 58%

Billy Donovan at UF -
13 - 17 = 43%
15 - 16 = 48%
22 - 9 = 71%
Avg: 54%

Will Muschamp at UF: -
7 - 6 = 54%
11 - 2 = 85%
4 - 8 = 33%
Avg: 57%

It looks like WM is 1 point behind SOS but 3 above BD and 4 better than Satan.

I'll be his Huckleberry. Above is his first post in it's entirety. Many of you seem outraged that he posted this, perhaps because you're assuming that he's trying to say that Muschamp's quality as a coach are on par with Saban, Spurrier and Donovan. I read back through the thread and I can't find where he implied this or made that assertion.

I would have interpreted the stats he shared (and his motive for sharing them) differently. I would have assumed that he was trying to say that the jury can still be out on Muschamp. I look at these numbers and the consistency of some posters to insist, every chance they can take, to declare with certainty that Muschamp is a bust and there is no doubt about it. Some act as if we are only waiting for the inevitable to play out - that Muschamp will fail. I look at these numbers and I realize that Muschamp may not be a good enough coach to be at a place like UF. ...but I also think there's a good chance that he might be a success. These numbers say to me that new head coaches:

• are coming into the job for the first time and may need to learn some things
• don't always have rosters that are suitable
• might not display great ability to win immediately - even if they have it. It might take a few years

In my opinion, this is the year. I see that he hasn't had good offensive coordinators (due to his own choosing) and he had all of the breaks go his way in 2012 and none of them went his way in 2013. I think this is the year he's got to turn it around "for good" as he has had time to make the roster "his," he's on his third OC (he has to be accountable for choosing and working with him well), and if he hasn't gotten depth enough to withstand the issues that he will face.

I don't know if this reflects what deuce coupe was thinking (or one of the things he thought might be taken from these numbers, but I think it is a reasonable conclusion to make and for this, he didn't need to list Zook & Meyer. He only needed to list some examples of great coaches whose first three years didn't differ greatly from Muschamp's.

You're right, I wasn't trying to prove that Muschamp is a "good" coach. Just thought the numbers would provoke some thought and post traffic.

Silly me.

 

[EuroGator]

I'm glad to hear your opinion and that it's so balanced. I think for many the norm on a message board is to be extreme and certain in your opinion and either relentless in declaration or vicious in defense. Thanks for bringing something else.

 

[GatorJ]

I like facts too. Here's one from Wikipedia: When Saban arrived in East Lansing, Michigan prior to the 1995 season, MSU had not had a winning season since 1990, and the team was sanctioned by the NCAA for recruiting violations committed under his predecessor and former mentor, George Perles.

It was MSU! Not UF where we almost won 3 NCs! And just signed one if the greatest recruiting classes in the history of recruiting in 2010.

 

[T REX]

Careful Euro, the pack might chew your leg off.

I'm not a Muschamp supporter, I'm a Florida Gator supporter. My support will continue whoever the HC is, I've been here since Ray Graves, and I'll be here until my Gator Heart stops beating. (unless they hire Kiffin) :hehehe:

How do I feel about Muschamp? Disappointed might be the best word to use. I liked the hire and was excited with the possibility of more passion from the HC but I am disappointed at what I consider to be his stubbornness and resistance to change based on the available talent. :angry:
I was willing to give WM some time to grow, learn and recruit players that fit his "type" of football but I'm now at the end of that patience. There must be obvious signs of progression on the field this year. The team doesn't need to be undefeated but it must be competitive and exciting to watch again. Unlike many, I don't have a "number of wins" in my head that will be acceptable but I expect our record to indicate that last year was a abnormality and that playing the Gators will once again cause strong men to quake. No more excuses, no more pumping, no more "wait until next year".

I still think WM will become a very successful HC, maybe that will happen here or somewhere else.

I do know that starting over is always a temporary step back but that seems to be acceptable to many if the end result is a better product.

When I think about coaching change, I think about Cleveland and Bill Belichick... Bill definitely wasn't successful early on and the fans demanded his ouster but I wonder if looking back maybe they should have given him a little more time to develop into the Coach that he would become. (wait for the angry post - "Muschamp ain't no Belichick"). But maybe being fired in Cleveland was what Bill needed to continue growing, who knows? Certainly not me.

After all, "I can't see caca!"

Thanks Euro for the post.

This is the last year for Muschamp. This isn't the 80's or 90's anymore. He either makes a major leap forward or he is sent packing. There's no middle ground. If there are still questions at the end of the season then he needs to go after 4 freaking years. That's patience.

 

[rogdochar]

Training wheels that got flat tires (injuries?) !

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Hey can anyone find the record of guys who have had two losing Sec seasons in their first three? Like to know how many of them were at top programs and weren't fired?

 

[Captain Sasquatch]

Hey can anyone find the record of guys who have had two losing Sec seasons in their first three. Like to know how many of them werent fired?

I know Dan Mullen did it. Probably plenty more but I don't feel like digging that much just to make you look even more like a moron.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Good. You can have Mullett next as Hbc and we can make it a full decade of having a loser coach.

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

I'll be his Huckleberry. Above is his first post in it's entirety. Many of you seem outraged that he posted this, perhaps because you're assuming that he's trying to say that Muschamp's quality as a coach are on par with Saban, Spurrier and Donovan. I read back through the thread and I can't find where he implied this or made that assertion.

That is not accurate. He posted a set of facts -- winning percentages, arguably the most important facts -- for several coaches and stated that those facts "speak for themselves." Other posters then presented additional facts that deuce didn't like to which he responded by calling their facts “excuses,” “assumptions” and “claims” based on their “feelings.” He then reasserted that he had presented the only facts that mattered and that they “speak for themselves.”

It’s as if he was comparing two rookie racecar drivers that had just run a qualifying lap on a racetrack in the same exact time and concluded the two drivers were equal. Then another person stated that one driver was in a Ferrari and the other was in a Miata. Deuce’s response was basically, “they ran it in the same exact time, the facts speak for themselves.”

So I decided to look up some additional facts on coaches’ records their first three seasons as a head coach and the records of the teams they inherited in the three seasons before they took over. I looked at the longest tenured coaches in the SEC, some former members of our coaching staff, and one knucklehead that we all love to make fun of.

Here is what I found:
% Improvement (coaches first 3 compared to 3 years prior), Coach, School, % 3 years prior, % first 3 years
46% Bob Stoops, Oklahoma, 35%, 82%
32% Urban Meyer, Bowling Green/Utah, 45%, 77%
29% Steve Spurrier, Duke, 30%, 59%
20% Nick Saban, Michigan State, 32%, 53%
17% Les Miles, Oklahoma State, 39%, 57%
15% Dan Mullen, Mississippi State, 41%, 55%
11% Mark Richt, Georgia, 69%, 80%
3% Charlie Weis, Notre Dame, 57%, 59%
-9% Ron Zook, Florida, 67%, 59%
-9% Lame Kitten, Tennessee/Southern Cal, 75%, 66%
-12% Gary Pinkel, Toledo, 64%, 52%
-25% Will Muschamp, Florida, 83%, 58%

(Note that for Kitten and Meyer, who were at multiple places during their first 3 years, I took weighted averages of the previous 3 years at both schools. Also the percent improvement might look a point off because of rounding)

So looking at this list, the first 5 guys won national championships and most of the guys at the bottom of the list have been fired and taken lesser positions. The exception is Pinkel who has one conference title in 23 years as a head coach (Toledo in ’95) and whose most impressive post-season win is the cotton bowl.

Based on these facts I think it is useful to look at the program a coach has taken over and the level of success in the years preceding his tenure. I do not think it is “balanced” to refer to this as “excuses,” “assumptions” or “claims” based on “feelings.”