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Discussion in 'Main Sports Forum' started by Swamp Donkey, May 27, 2020.
Boss made me laugh out loud
That’s NOT NICE Durty. We do not laugh at kids like Boss. It’s cruel and you should know better. He can’t help the way he is. God made him different, that’s all. It’s OK Boss. Durty was only kidding. He didn’t mean anything by it. Want a lollipop? Alex.
This was by far your best post ever!
Missing the point again. The use of that play trended downward throughout the season - 1 time that was successful is not a bad thing. We used it multiple times in other, earlier games then it tailed off as the season went along. Trask’s rushes fell too. How does that make your point? We were forcing that play at first and it turned into window dressing later. Is your point that this was always player driven? I just do not see it. How much latitude was Trask given for checking out of plays? With today’s tech, I am guessing not much. Plays probably came from the box based on alignment, generally. To really dissect this, we would need to chart the plays throughout the season. For instance, on that first drive, only three of the plays were even RPO looks. Considering donk continues to claim that we do that every play and only pass horizontally, I would assume that means we adjusted to the players - including to find a running game because the coaches knew that under center was the only viable option since Trask running consistently was not working. It’s why the offense looked so much different when EJ was in. They called different plays - over, as some would say, they adjusted .
No they didnt, EJ just read keep when the DE crashed, as he should, and Trash gave anyway. Under center? When did you see that? No more than 1-2% of the plays and mostly 3rd and short. Honestly, Id love to see under center almost all the time, running conventional run plays, with a fullback. Look, trust me on this, I know your not an Xs and Os guy, @cover2 help me, if you rewatch the games and see the backside DE unblocked, it was an option. Whether we gave the ball to the HB or threw a screen,.it was an option. Some seem to think option is only old GT or Nebraska. 80% of our runs, at least, were options. At least 50% of our passes were (lower at the end of the year). fwiw I fully expect him to return to form, back to almost 100% option, next year. he always does. if he adjusts, it will be very late again, like November.
Law’s correct. The DE is the key in a read option. If he squeezes on the OT inside release, the “read” becomes “keep.” If the DE squats/feathers/slow plays, the read becomes “give.” How long the QB is able to “ride” the back can make the DE commit to the give and open the keep. I don’t think the issue with Trask is his reads as much as it is his lack of foot speed. Even so, he usually doesn’t get stoned on these plays, but the gains are often minimal. It is a better change of pace play than a threat. EJ is obviously far more dangerous in this role because of his speed and athleticism. I was out of coaching when the advent of the rpo came about, but there are similarities in the reads for that and the read options. Basically, you are forcing the defender to commit to a decision to either play run or coverage; QB attacks whichever option is not defended. Speed and accuracy of the read is paramount.
Law is mistaken. I understand how the RPO works. My point was the frequency of use of RPO when the two QBs were in. Rewatching the FSU game showed less RPO, including window dressing plays, for Trask than had been earlier in the season. This discussion can not be settled without charting play types for each game but if FSU was any indication, the playcalling adjusted throughout the season due to Trask’s constraints. When EJ was in, the playcalling reverted back to what we would expect out of Mullen. That is the point I have been making.
I think we might have to agree to disagree on this, bc you view numbers differently. You keep saying "1 time", but it was one time ON 4TH DOWN. We didn't only run it one time. And if we ran QB Power more than once per game with Kyle Trask, we were in the top 2% of QB Powers in college football with a guy in the bottom 1/3rd of fit. We ran QB Powers, even though Trask sucked at them, bc we hadn't installed anything better. This is a very difficult stat to look at since sacks are counted as rushes in college. In his full games, Trask was recorded as having 4, 4, 8, 10, 5, 6, 7, 6, 4 , 8. The 10 & 8 are vs lsu and auburn. Auburn is high bc of 4 sacks. lsu he actually ran the ball (only 2 sacks). Like the speed option on 4th down at the goalline. last game was uva with 8 rushes and only 1 sack. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that means that his 2nd highest run total of the year was in the last game. Quite the trend. My point is that the playcall didn't change; mullen changed the #s call (which is a muschamp level of adapting) and Trask changed how it was run. He wasnt given any latitude for checking out of plays, which is why he had to run the same QB read even though it became window dressing. Thats the entire point. We can start by actually charting the drive that you hoped showed what you want. Not gonna like this though... 1) 00 formation. 4 9s with the curl. A play that I told you before mullen arrived in gainesville was a staple, bc the whole point is to clear for the drag and a running QB. Absolutely ZERO of the routes are built to beat man, bc the thought is that if it's man, the QB has the run. Trask cant run so the line has to hold and then Swain beats his guy on a 2nd move. This is a coaching win for fsu since its the most simple play you can run with a QB not made to run it. It only works, bc Swain wins a matchup he shouldn't. One of the better pass plays to run if you want to waste your wr talent. 2) 00 set. Full field spread concept. Nobody is open, bc once again it doesn't have legit manbeater and Trask won't run. Trask ends up throwing a curl to Perine from the far hash. Might argue that that is one of the worst throws and matchups we could have. EJ runs that and has a 1v1 with the LB, bc thats what its made for. BTW, VJ was on the 9 and Cleve released as one, bc mullen gotta have the 9s, right? 3) 00 set with Swain deep motion pre-snap. Its 3rd & 10 so motioning your wr and having him behind Trask at the snap is an interesting call. It obviously takes away a receiving threat, but adds a horizontal threat that would obviously shift people if Trask had a running lane the opposite way. The other WRs block so it is a wr screen to Swain call, but fsu plays the #s and its not there. Luckily, VJ abuses his guy on a straight slant and gets like 18 yards. So another play made to stretch horizontally that we win, bc Trask & VJ are just better. Weird that we didn't score as much against lsu. Maybe bc they have players so we couldnt abuse them with backyard football. 4) 11 set under center with a bunch. Def a formation adapted to our guys. We run the ball on 1st and Perine picks up 10. Our OL looks like they can block when it's a play that actually goes to our strength. Go figure. 5) 11 spread set. Swing screen to Perine. Can't really say this is or isnt to our strength. Obviously a mullen staple bc its a horizontal spread play, but also cant blame him for continuing to run it. 6) 11 set. Shotgun and unbalanced trips (everyone to one side). Not a formation you see a lot, bc of how much it limits one side of the formation. Most teams don't have it in the playbook. Makes sense if you have a running QB, bc you are hoping a man call gets all the defenders on one side with your receivers leaving empty space on the other. We go RPO. 7) 11 spread set. We go max protect and 3 9s. Even though they give the window dressing, this isn't actually an RPO. Its purely the 9s that you tell me mullen doesn't run all the time. The PA is there, bc in his usual playbook, the QB read would threaten the D. It doesnt and they easily cover it so its a wasted play. 8) 12 set from under center. Jet to Toney, which goes nowhere, bc he isn't coached on it and our TEs cant block. fsu also played it that way and basically ignored the fake to Perine. Not sure if it was luck or if they actually had the smarts to know that subbing in Toney and putting him in motion meant something. Cant really argue with the play design or playcall there though and would def count it as one that is adjusted to our guys. 9) 11 spread set. We PA on 3rd & 11, bc why not, right...Max protect. 69 combo L so likely useless (6 is short so most calls take away the 9). So we're basically once again just praying that Van beats his guy and they don't go cover 2 or have anyone that can cover him. He catches it just short. Funny thing is they rolled the coverage over top of him, so the CB should have covered it easily. Lucky that fsu sucks. 10) 4th & 1. We run QB Power. I'm told that we didn't even have this in the playbook before Trask and its in now, bc we adjusted to Traskbow. 11) 11 spread set. RPO wr screen. Same as the other screen in that you cant argue the screen. The RPO off it is whats always been, bc itd work with a running QB. So once again, runnign a suboptimal play, bc there has been close to know adapting. As an example, the better option for our guys would have been either no RPO and had the backside go slant to strain the D that way or you run an RPO that isn't a QB read, bc something like an inside zone would have allowed Trask to have his feet better and not have to throw it falling backward like he did. If somebody watched this without knowing the players, they say "pretty basic on both sides, but the O just has guys the D can't cover and the D isn't coached well enough to make up for it. The O would put up points on anybody, but it's too basic and relies too much on backyard football of #12 beating his CB to ever be elite aginst other good teams. Run that against Stingley and that O will stall a few times and not keep up with them". We dont actually run anything to help a WR vs a legit CB, bc we never adapted. Thats the huge difference in lsu 2019 vs lsu 2018. Since our entire strength was Trask throwing, not adapting to that means we adapted less than muschamp in 13' when we went straight direct snap to KT vs usc.
Yes, there were some changes made in the playcalling during the clown town game. Even the commentator mentioned it, and said the coaches asked Mullinz why he kept running all the plays that didnt work. That was- what--game 25 or so? And game 8 or so w Trash. Wanna bet what we are doing in game 1 next year? Back to Mullinz ball.
Better late than never... and still shows adjustment
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