NCAA Reconsidering Penn State Sanctions?

[SavannahGator]

The NCAA's purpose regarding sanctions is to impose them for violations of NCAA rules governing improper benefits and/or improper competitive advantage. The way I see it, the enormity of the situation and the media forced the NCAA to rethink their role in the administration of college athletics without changing their statutory purview. There never should have been a bowl ban, there never should have been any of the sanctions imposed by the NCAA, because there never were any NCAA violations. This was a criminal matter between the State of Pennsylvania and some of its employees, and a civil matter between the victims and Penn State employees. It should never have been a matter of punishing players, fans, and staff who were not involved. The NCAA stuck its nose in a matter it was not, and is still not, equipped to handle.

I have no problem with restoring the wins - there was never a competitive advantage gained by Penn State in this sordid matter.

 

[TLB]

Negative. CEOs that are corrupt aren't normally the only ones unscathed in a crime. Depending on the severity of the scandal, corporations are regularly fined millions of dollars by the regulatory agencies.

We see this consistently in the healthcare and financial industries.

I think you missed the part where I asked if those corporate players were caught 'doing this', meaning if they were found molesting kids. In my stated situation the activity would (presumably) not be financially benefiting the company, nor violating any regulatory guidelines, only civil laws.

For your assertion, would those fines be levied against individuals and companies that benefited from illegal activities? I argue Penn State did not benefit from these activities. Would those fines be levied for violation of rules regarding how to run a business? I would argue the heart of the matter was a civil violation of the kids, but concede there is an academic violation in not reporting what was known. As you point out, fines are issued by the regulatory agency. In this case, the NCAA's regulations would address (non)reporting of the issue but not the pedophilia itself. It's up to the state attorney to bring justice against the pedophilia. I think that the disturbing nature of the crime caused the NCAA to over reach it's punishment, rather than the narrow focus they actually govern.

Meh, I'm fine if they give back the wins, or not. While I am arguing the point, I really don't care all that much.

 

[rogdochar]

Those employed by PSU and knowing merely of a hint of suspicion are State-designated first reporters and broke the state law
by not immediately phoning the designated hotline and reporting what was surely a suspicion. The state wants the investigating
official trained in interrogating pedophiles because they know the pedophiles' cover talk. So crimes were committed.
"First reporters" are broad Dentists, MDs, daycare workers etc = those who can observe victims bruises or downtrodden behaviors.

I agree that the unknowing deserve no punishment. Criminal behavior points to Paterno & those administrators & even that GA who
did not phone the hotline directly, surely he is as informed and as smart as a daycare worker.

Still, the main service is the reconstructive counseling to victims.

 

[GatorJ]

I think you missed the part where I asked if those corporate players were caught 'doing this', meaning if they were found molesting kids. In my stated situation the activity would (presumably) not be financially benefiting the company, nor violating any regulatory guidelines, only civil laws.

For your assertion, would those fines be levied against individuals and companies that benefited from illegal activities? I argue Penn State did not benefit from these activities. Would those fines be levied for violation of rules regarding how to run a business? I would argue the heart of the matter was a civil violation of the kids, but concede there is an academic violation in not reporting what was known. As you point out, fines are issued by the regulatory agency. In this case, the NCAA's regulations would address (non)reporting of the issue but not the pedophilia itself. It's up to the state attorney to bring justice against the pedophilia. I think that the disturbing nature of the crime caused the NCAA to over reach it's punishment, rather than the narrow focus they actually govern.

Meh, I'm fine if they give back the wins, or not. While I am arguing the point, I really don't care all that much.

That wasn't a civil law case. It was a criminal law case. And criminal law punishments widely vary to include monetary penalties.

 

[VulcanAlex]

Well Gee since they were excessive (very much so) considering changing them is sort of like that "catch" that the Cowboys made that was not a catch. Better to fix later than allow it to be wrong forever.

 

[GatorJ]

Well Gee since they were excessive (very much so) considering changing them is sort of like that "catch" that the Cowboys made that was not a catch. Better to fix later than allow it to be wrong forever.

How were they excessive? They ran a criminal enterprise that harbored a pedophile! Am I in the twilight zone? **** football! Little boys were being raped for years!

 

[MJMGator]

How were they excessive? They ran a criminal enterprise that harbored a pedophile! Am I in the twilight zone? **** football! Little boys were being raped for years!

You're absolutely correct, but what does the governing body of collegiate athletics have to do with that? How did it offer them a competitive advantage? It's a criminal and civil matter as several others have already stated. It's really none of the NCAA's business.

 

[GatorJ]

You're absolutely correct, but what does the governing body of collegiate athletics have to do with that? How did it offer them a competitive advantage? It's a criminal and civil matter as several others have already stated. It's really none of the NCAA's business.

It gave them a competitive and financial advantage by keeping the illusion that nothing vile and reprehensible was going on at the university. By bringing to light that their DC was raping boys it would have had a huge financial impact to their brand, donations, enrollment, and TV dollars. They were able to stave it off for a decade.

 

[MJMGator]

It gave them a competitive and financial advantage by keeping the illusion that nothing vile and reprehensible was going on at the university. By bringing to light that their DC was raping boys it would have had a huge financial impact to their brand, donations, enrollment, and TV dollars. They were able to stave it off for a decade.

You're grasping J. Nothing they did violated NCAA rules and they just stuck their noses where it didn't belong. Those crimes were for the courts.

 

[GatorJ]

You're grasping J. Nothing they did violated NCAA rules and they just stuck their noses where it didn't belong. Those crimes were for the courts.

What does it matter whether they had the jurisdiction or not? The NCAA is governed by the schools. They accepted their penalty. If they didn't want to accept it they could have elected to not accept the sanctions and remove itself from the NCAA governance.

In essence, who gives a shît that PSU got hit with some losses from a record book, a couple years post-season band, and loss of schollies? Small price to pay for allowing kids to be RAPED for a decade.

 

[MJMGator]

What does it matter whether they had the jurisdiction or not? The NCAA is governed by the schools. They accepted their penalty. If they didn't want to accept it they could have elected to not accept the sanctions and remove itself from the NCAA governance.

In essence, who gives a shît that PSU got hit with some losses from a record book, a couple years post-season band, and loss of schollies? Small price to pay for allowing kids to be RAPED for a decade.

They're operating the same way you're posting...out of emotion. No logic or juridisctition was used by the NCAA. Just a heavy hand when they felt they needed to dole out justice for those kids.

 

[GatorJ]

They're operating the same way you're posting...out of emotion. No logic or juridisctition was used by the NCAA. Just a heavy hand when they felt they needed to dole out justice for those kids.

Again, what does it matter? Why does the penalty to PSU matter? Hell, the schollies limit and post season ban were already lifted. It wasn't even that severe of a penalty! And again, PSU AGREED to the penalty. They didn't have to agree to shît! Some time has passed now and the outrage has died down so they are trying to capitalize on it by asking a court to overturn the penalty THEY AGREED to. A penalty they agreed to because the public shame they would have faced in fighting any sanctions would have been catastrophic at that time.

 

[MJMGator]

Again, what does it matter? Why does the penalty to PSU matter? Hell, the schollies limit and post season ban were already lifted. It wasn't even that severe of a penalty! And again, PSU AGREED to the penalty. They didn't have to agree to shît! Some time has passed now and the outrage has died down so they are trying to capitalize on it by asking a court to overturn the penalty THEY AGREED to. A penalty they agreed to because the public shame they would have faced in fighting any sanctions would have been catastrophic at that time.

Why not sic the building inspectors on them, too? Again...they have no jurisdiction and shouldn't be involved. PSU wasn't gonna argue about anything at the time. Let the courts prosecute those involved and the civil courts bleed them dry. The NCAA? Stay out of it!

 

[TLB]

That wasn't a civil law case. It was a criminal law case. And criminal law punishments widely vary to include monetary penalties.

You are correct - I'm mixing the use of 'civil' and 'criminal', but by definition, isn't a criminal someone who breaks civil laws? The only academic (read: NCAA authority) violations would be the lack of reporting the events. MJM is right, you're speaking from an emotional perspective, not a rational one. As to PSU accepting the punishments, do you really believe they had a choice? That exiting the NCAA for these charges would be a sane choice? No. And given the emotions swirling around all involved, I could understand their acceptance of nearly anything at that point in time.

I don't think you've seen anyone anywhere argue the point that these crimes were heinous or vile. The point of argument in this thread has been who is right to issue punishment, and what kind of punishment is appropriate. Your words seem to say over and over you don't care who it comes from, and while I could see them self-disciplining to a degree, I don't see anyone but the state legal system being in a position for much authority in the situation. Otherwise, let's bring in OSHA, EPA, Pro Bowlers Assoc, and the local Hell's Angels to issue their own punishments on top of things along with the building inspectors.

 

[NavetG8r]

I'm with J on this one. There were school officials that knew about this and decided to turn a blind eye to it instead of doing what's right because they knew if word got out it would negatively affect their football program. That's where the NCAA needed to make a statement, and they did. If they recall the punishments they may as well say it's ok to hide bad things from the public so those bad things don't negatively affect your recruiting. That's not acceptable.

 

[MJMGator]

You are correct - I'm mixing the use of 'civil' and 'criminal', but by definition, isn't a criminal someone who breaks civil laws? The only academic (read: NCAA authority) violations would be the lack of reporting the events. MJM is right, you're speaking from an emotional perspective, not a rational one. As to PSU accepting the punishments, do you really believe they had a choice? That exiting the NCAA for these charges would be a sane choice? No. And given the emotions swirling around all involved, I could understand their acceptance of nearly anything at that point in time.

I don't think you've seen anyone anywhere argue the point that these crimes were heinous or vile. The point of argument in this thread has been who is right to issue punishment, and what kind of punishment is appropriate. Your words seem to say over and over you don't care who it comes from, and while I could see them self-disciplining to a degree, I don't see anyone but the state legal system being in a position for much authority in the situation. Otherwise, let's bring in OSHA, EPA, Pro Bowlers Assoc, and the local Hell's Angels to issue their own punishments on top of things along with the building inspectors.

Well said. Now...let those involved rot in hell for eternity.

 

[T REX]

I'm with J on this one. There were school officials that knew about this and decided to turn a blind eye to it instead of doing what's right because they knew if word got out it would negatively affect their football program. That's where the NCAA needed to make a statement, and they did. If they recall the punishments they may as well say it's ok to hide bad things from the public so those bad things don't negatively affect your recruiting. That's not acceptable.

This...they chose to keep it quiet instead of hurting their brand. Sorry but the NCAA was totally right for getting involved.

 

[Captain Sasquatch]

Again, what does it matter? Why does the penalty to PSU matter? Hell, the schollies limit and post season ban were already lifted. It wasn't even that severe of a penalty! And again, PSU AGREED to the penalty. They didn't have to agree to shît! Some time has passed now and the outrage has died down so they are trying to capitalize on it by asking a court to overturn the penalty THEY AGREED to. A penalty they agreed to because the public shame they would have faced in fighting any sanctions would have been catastrophic at that time.

Unless I'm mistaken, the NCAA was going to hit them with the death penalty if PSU didn't agree to the sanctions. Or at least they threatened to. PSU wasn't in any place to negotiate.

 

[VulcanAlex]

I'm with J on this one. There were school officials that knew about this and decided to turn a blind eye to it instead of doing what's right because they knew if word got out it would negatively affect their football program. That's where the NCAA needed to make a statement, and they did. If they recall the punishments they may as well say it's ok to hide bad things from the public so those bad things don't negatively affect your recruiting. That's not acceptable.

And jail it the appropriate fix for such activities. The football program should not have been involved and the fine is foolish.

 

[WobbleGator]

And jail it the appropriate fix for such activities. The football program should not have been involved and the fine is foolish.

How was the football program not involved when the HC and former DC were?