New NFL penalties for domestic violence

dubster1

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TheDouglas78 said:
dubster1;n37604 said:
its a knee jerk reaction for given rice two games and getting hammered in the media, lifetime ban? seriously goodale? you dont give rapist and murderers lifetime bans, what a crock of s@#!

What convicted murders and rapist are currently playing in the NFL?
not looking to take this to trial. i simply stated my opinion on the matter. you started rambling about convictions and trials. just because your not convicted in a court of law doesnt mean it didnt happen,,, ask oj
 

TheDouglas78

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TheDouglas78 said:
dubster1;n37604 said:
its a knee jerk reaction for given rice two games and getting hammered in the media, lifetime ban? seriously goodale? you dont give rapist and murderers lifetime bans, what a crock of s@#!

What convicted murders and rapist are currently playing in the NFL?
If you opinion is they committed murder that is one thing. Saying that a legal/business entity should suspend and ban people for rapes and murders they were accused of doing is quite another. You stated "you dont give rapist and murderers lifetime bans" which mean that you are stating that people who currently fall under the legal standing of murderer or rapist is currently playing in the NFL or didn't recieve a ban by Roger Goddell (even through Lewis was a Taglibue call). I'm not rambling about convictions, because that is the standard in a legal society. I guess if you want to play your game, someone could say you murdered someone and that makes you a murderer without any real proof. I guess that is your opinion, accusations are good enough.
 

dubster1

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TheDouglas78 said:
dubster1;n37604 said:
its a knee jerk reaction for given rice two games and getting hammered in the media, lifetime ban? seriously goodale? you dont give rapist and murderers lifetime bans, what a crock of s@#!

What convicted murders and rapist are currently playing in the NFL?
ok, thats your opinion,, now excuse me while i take this call from stallworth
 

TheDouglas78

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TheDouglas78 said:
dubster1;n37604 said:
its a knee jerk reaction for given rice two games and getting hammered in the media, lifetime ban? seriously goodale? you dont give rapist and murderers lifetime bans, what a crock of s@#!

What convicted murders and rapist are currently playing in the NFL?
Stallworth is guilty of DUI manuslaughter and I would agree with you on that one. He was found guilty. But accusations are just accusations and unless you can prove otherwise they do not prove someone did anything. Leonard Little is another one you could throw into that group (involuntary manslaughter).
 

dubster1

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TheDouglas78 said:
dubster1;n37604 said:
its a knee jerk reaction for given rice two games and getting hammered in the media, lifetime ban? seriously goodale? you dont give rapist and murderers lifetime bans, what a crock of s@#!

What convicted murders and rapist are currently playing in the NFL?
the point is in my opinion players have committed more serious offenses and dont recieve lifetime bans. now wait before you go all lifetime channel on me domestic violence is a serious issue, but i think goodale is over the top on this one,, just my opinion!
 

TheDouglas78

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Dubster, does Domestic Violence deserve a 6 game ban, yes upon conviction in my opinion which I have stated. If a player is convicted of murder or rape which are different from what Stallworth and Leonard were guilty of though in my opinion after Leonard's second time he should have been banned. They should also be banned for life. But all that is dependent on a conviction. Right now the only NFL player who was convicted as a NFL player was that reciever from the Panthers. Hernandez if convicted of murder will have a lifetime bann. I believe he has a lifetime bann. It doesn't matter if in our opinions they committed those crimes, it is if it has been proven they committed those crimes. In both cases, nothing was proven.
 

dubster1

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TheDouglas78 said:
Dubster, does Domestic Violence deserve a 6 game ban, yes upon conviction in my opinion which I have stated. If a player is convicted of murder or rape which are different from what Stallworth and Leonard were guilty of though in my opinion after Leonard's second time he should have been banned. They should also be banned for life. But all that is dependent on a conviction. Right now the only NFL player who was convicted as a NFL player was that reciever from the Panthers. Hernandez if convicted of murder will have a lifetime bann. I believe he has a lifetime bann. It doesn't matter if in our opinions they committed those crimes, it is if it has been proven they committed those crimes. In both cases, nothing was proven.
again,,if you want to ban the player for 6games fine second offense 1 season, third offense life time ban. again just my opinion, but way to many times i have seen women use this as a tool to seek revenge for whatever reason. a guy from espn brought this issue up and was crucified and suspended
 

TheDouglas78

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TheDouglas78 said:
Dubster, does Domestic Violence deserve a 6 game ban, yes upon conviction in my opinion which I have stated. If a player is convicted of murder or rape which are different from what Stallworth and Leonard were guilty of though in my opinion after Leonard's second time he should have been banned. They should also be banned for life. But all that is dependent on a conviction. Right now the only NFL player who was convicted as a NFL player was that reciever from the Panthers. Hernandez if convicted of murder will have a lifetime bann. I believe he has a lifetime bann. It doesn't matter if in our opinions they committed those crimes, it is if it has been proven they committed those crimes. In both cases, nothing was proven.
I have no problem with you 3 strike rule. And I agree there are women that will use this as a tool for revenge. Which is why it can't be based on accusation, it has to be after a factual case has been fulfilled. Now will some cases find guilty or innocence falsely of course, but it will be more accurate than going off a accusation.

He was Steve A Smith was suspended for how and the timing of what he said, then the actual content, in my opinion.
 

Gatorwitt

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So if i were in the NFL i couldn't Raccoon a chick??? You know, right when i'm about to finish I punch her in both eyes, run out the door and tip her trash cans over.
 

dubster1

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i disagree,, but again that just my humble opinion,, one of the posters above said it best,, "once the allegations prove to be false rarely is the women charged with filing a false report,,, so there is no consequences for this action
 

TheDouglas78

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dubster1 said:
i disagree,, but again that just my humble opinion,, one of the posters above said it best,, "once the allegations prove to be false rarely is the women charged with filing a false report,,, so there is no consequences for this action
Which is a problem in the system. They should be charged just like anyone else.
 

AlexDaGator

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The law says what the law says but reality is different.

If there is a DV call and a cop investigates and it is her word against his without any physical evidence legally, the cop shouldn't arrest. BUT, the first time that happens and she gets beaten to a coma or to death after the cop leaves well, then, we just can't have that.

Essentially, once the cops show up to your house on a DV call, somebody is spending the night in jail. Even if the alleged victim changes her story and tells the officer that nothing happened, somebody is still very likely to get arrested.

That's just the way it is.

The problem here is that proving a DV case in a court of law is very hard unless you have independent witnesses or physical evidence. I prosecuted hundreds of DV cases. Many times I went to trial on a 911 recording where she's screaming for her life and police observed "redness on the left cheek" or "swollen lip and puffy eye". Typically, the victim either wouldn't show up for trial or would show up and tell the jury she got drunk and called 911 because she was drunk and mad at him, and he didn't really hit her, she stumbled and fell, 'cause she was drunk.

It's really hard to win these cases because that's not a lot of proof to overcome the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard.

With so much riding on the line, you can expect players will fight these charges tooth and nail. The victims won't cooperate (they know which side of their bread is buttered). He's sorry he did it and he bought me a new Escalade. He shouldn't lose half his salary on top of that, right?

It also allows for unscrupulous women to exploit NFL players. You meet a guy with one 6 month suspension in a bar. Go to his place, hit yourself in the face with his i-pad which has his prints all over it, threaten to call 9-11 unless he comes up with the cash. There are gold-diggers looking for these guys. They try to get knocked up to get on that NFL money gravy train.

We're not just talking about thugs here. Warren Moon caught a DV charge in 1995. Moon was acquitted after his wife testified that she initiated the violence and that he was trying to restrain her. Playing for the Vikings in 1995 Moon had a career season throwing for over 4K yards and 33 touchdowns. If the rule was in place then, would Moon have been suspended for 6 months? Remember, he was acquitted in a court of law, but it is highly likely he did it and she covered for him after the fact. They divorced a couple of years later.

If you insist on a criminal conviction, this has no teeth. If you go on whether the Commish thinks you did it, it might have too many teeth. Make sense?

I would set a guideline of 3 strikes, first time is half a season, second time is full season, third time is a lifetime ban with the standard of proof being "substantial likelihood" that the player did it (higher than "preponderance of the evidence" but lower than "beyond a reasonable doubt").

Alex.
 

dubster1

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AlexDaGator said:
The law says what the law says but reality is different.

If there is a DV call and a cop investigates and it is her word against his without any physical evidence legally, the cop shouldn't arrest. BUT, the first time that happens and she gets beaten to a coma or to death after the cop leaves well, then, we just can't have that.

Essentially, once the cops show up to your house on a DV call, somebody is spending the night in jail. Even if the alleged victim changes her story and tells the officer that nothing happened, somebody is still very likely to get arrested.

That's just the way it is.

The problem here is that proving a DV case in a court of law is very hard unless you have independent witnesses or physical evidence. I prosecuted hundreds of DV cases. Many times I went to trial on a 911 recording where she's screaming for her life and police observed "redness on the left cheek" or "swollen lip and puffy eye". Typically, the victim either wouldn't show up for trial or would show up and tell the jury she got drunk and called 911 because she was drunk and mad at him, and he didn't really hit her, she stumbled and fell, 'cause she was drunk.

It's really hard to win these cases because that's not a lot of proof to overcome the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard.

With so much riding on the line, you can expect players will fight these charges tooth and nail. The victims won't cooperate (they know which side of their bread is buttered). He's sorry he did it and he bought me a new Escalade. He shouldn't lose half his salary on top of that, right?

It also allows for unscrupulous women to exploit NFL players. You meet a guy with one 6 month suspension in a bar. Go to his place, hit yourself in the face with his i-pad which has his prints all over it, threaten to call 9-11 unless he comes up with the cash. There are gold-diggers looking for these guys. They try to get knocked up to get on that NFL money gravy train.

We're not just talking about thugs here. Warren Moon caught a DV charge in 1995. Moon was acquitted after his wife testified that she initiated the violence and that he was trying to restrain her. Playing for the Vikings in 1995 Moon had a career season throwing for over 4K yards and 33 touchdowns. If the rule was in place then, would Moon have been suspended for 6 months? Remember, he was acquitted in a court of law, but it is highly likely he did it and she covered for him after the fact. They divorced a couple of years later.

If you insist on a criminal conviction, this has no teeth. If you go on whether the Commish thinks you did it, it might have too many teeth. Make sense?

I would set a guideline of 3 strikes, first time is half a season, second time is full season, third time is a lifetime ban with the standard of proof being "substantial likelihood" that the player did it (higher than "preponderance of the evidence" but lower than "beyond a reasonable doubt").

Alex.
damn alex,, your money!,, go gator
 

dubster1

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dubster1 said:
i disagree,, but again that just my humble opinion,, one of the posters above said it best,, "once the allegations prove to be false rarely is the women charged with filing a false report,,, so there is no consequences for this action
finally somthing we both can agree on,, go gators!
 

Gator Fever

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AlexDaGator said:
The law says what the law says but reality is different.

If there is a DV call and a cop investigates and it is her word against his without any physical evidence legally, the cop shouldn't arrest. BUT, the first time that happens and she gets beaten to a coma or to death after the cop leaves well, then, we just can't have that.

Essentially, once the cops show up to your house on a DV call, somebody is spending the night in jail. Even if the alleged victim changes her story and tells the officer that nothing happened, somebody is still very likely to get arrested.

That's just the way it is.

The problem here is that proving a DV case in a court of law is very hard unless you have independent witnesses or physical evidence. I prosecuted hundreds of DV cases. Many times I went to trial on a 911 recording where she's screaming for her life and police observed "redness on the left cheek" or "swollen lip and puffy eye". Typically, the victim either wouldn't show up for trial or would show up and tell the jury she got drunk and called 911 because she was drunk and mad at him, and he didn't really hit her, she stumbled and fell, 'cause she was drunk.

It's really hard to win these cases because that's not a lot of proof to overcome the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard.

With so much riding on the line, you can expect players will fight these charges tooth and nail. The victims won't cooperate (they know which side of their bread is buttered). He's sorry he did it and he bought me a new Escalade. He shouldn't lose half his salary on top of that, right?

It also allows for unscrupulous women to exploit NFL players. You meet a guy with one 6 month suspension in a bar. Go to his place, hit yourself in the face with his i-pad which has his prints all over it, threaten to call 9-11 unless he comes up with the cash. There are gold-diggers looking for these guys. They try to get knocked up to get on that NFL money gravy train.

We're not just talking about thugs here. Warren Moon caught a DV charge in 1995. Moon was acquitted after his wife testified that she initiated the violence and that he was trying to restrain her. Playing for the Vikings in 1995 Moon had a career season throwing for over 4K yards and 33 touchdowns. If the rule was in place then, would Moon have been suspended for 6 months? Remember, he was acquitted in a court of law, but it is highly likely he did it and she covered for him after the fact. They divorced a couple of years later.

If you insist on a criminal conviction, this has no teeth. If you go on whether the Commish thinks you did it, it might have too many teeth. Make sense?

I would set a guideline of 3 strikes, first time is half a season, second time is full season, third time is a lifetime ban with the standard of proof being "substantial likelihood" that the player did it (higher than "preponderance of the evidence" but lower than "beyond a reasonable doubt").

Alex.
Never thought about that - with the penalty being so big it might lead to a few blackmail situations like has happened before with NFL players. usually someone wont fake a charge like that but it definitely has happened before. My guess is every player will fight this tooth and nail unless they are caught on video red handed doing it.
 

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sonomagator said:
One of the problems , and reasons they take them away is to err on the side of caution. Before they changed the law here in Cali to often they wouldn't make an arrest and if something happened to the women the media would go crazy and blame the cops. Out here they generally tell the man to leave and stay away and have the woman get a temp restraining order( not that they do much good) if the woman feels like they need it. And as far as not testifying if there's a mark they don't need their testimony anymore, just the photographic evidence. My best friend, a cop, has had numerous cases where they couple have reconciled but the man still goes down even when the woman testifies for the man because of the photos. The one thing I can't believe is that Goodell actual made a good decision.
yeah, but they had a bunch of women killed back before the law changed.She wouldn't press and then another argument or he gets pissed because the cops are called and she ends up dead.The way the law is now is that the state presses charges if there are any marks, and they can make an arrest if there are witnesses who say they saw a domestic assault even without marks, but from what I understand those are harder to convict on.
 

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