Gator Basketball ***Official Game Thread BBALL*** Florida at Tennessee

[rogdochar]

A coach can have a bad year or two but must produce a string of real "bounce-back" years that credit the program that he's paid $millions to elevate = the UF Program. For now, Florida has no Program !
A worthy Program is expected to draw top athletes & accentuate their skills. From that, the fans are awarded the enjoyment of watching "a favorite" player or three with a team-group of Gators that play consistently well with zero inexplicable consistent backslidings. It seems so many of those stupid losses are woven into White's coaching style. Consistent backslidings seem White's Trademark.

Can we keep White by adding an assistant vigorous enough to push Mike White into respecting all aspects of a solid game -- especially big inside scoring.? ... Not "yeah, we can go inside but don't expect much good to come from it or the players who play those positions." = Pinklin ain't getting it done. Also, if it were not for Tre Mann asserting his effectiveness at driving, White would develop him into our best 3-point shooter. (Imagine Tre staying outside.)

 

[lagator]

Looks like it's wait till next year all over again. Every year it seems like the season starts and we see a more athletic group than the previous year and start to fall for the idea that this might be the year White's team finally lives up to the potential, only to see them fall, especially at the end of the season where we are talking about the bubble once again.

Looks like it's wait till next year all over again. Now there's just the yearly exodus while we wait to see who is transferring out and who we pick up in the portal, rinse and repeat.

 

[rogdochar]

It's a stinky White problem that he does not recognize which players to push into becoming stronger contributors, pushing from the start of the season. I think 'Ruskiev' could be better developed to help win games? He's smart & 6'7" ... and 6'11" Payne. You do not let players like that go to waste.

 

[lagator]

It's a stinky White problem that he does not recognize which players to push into becoming stronger contributors, pushing from the start of the season. I think 'Ruskiev' could be better developed to help win games? He's smart & 6'7" ... and 6'11" Payne. You do not let players like that go to waste.

The problem is we aren't good enough to develop those guys because we are fighting for our tournament lives. Those guys have gotten in and pretty much failed and proved that they don't belong on the court when they are taking minutes away from better options. Ruski has been particularly disappointing clanging his open 3's over and over despite being listed as one of the best pure shooters in his class. And he's been struggling on defense when he's been in but he's a freshman and I think he has the potential to be a good contributor in the future, but he isn't ready now. Payne is still lost and I'm starting to wonder if he's ever going to be more than an alley-oop specialist. He's a liability on both ends of the floor.

Bottom line is this team just doesn't have the talent or leadership to overcome the loss of KJ. He wasn't just an important piece, he was 25-30% of the scoring and 90% of the leadership. There's a reason he was pre-season SEC POTY.

 

[Marine1]

A bad showing in the post season will bring more heat towards changing coaches. But it won’t happen with the AD unless a rock star lets it be known he is interested. MW will get one last season next year and then be gone.

I would love to get Brad Stevens but little chance.

Next year? Maybe KJ comes back? But Mann leaves? Although he really needs another year. Need another big. Need a shooter. Payne played another 15 minutes without taking a single shot. Lewis missed all his 3’s and all his FT’s. Next year these 2 should be contributors but not stars if they stay.

 

[rogdochar]

So all the teams that have beaten us and will beat us have signed better players "right-out-of-the-box"?
Payne, a star in high school, like so many that star enough to be coveted by colleges, Payne is an unteachable wreck?

 

[lizardbreath]

Mike White is not a good coach - end of statement. The AD must fire him ASAP or expect things to go from mediocre to flat-out bad, in very short order. Of course that's not going to happen any time soon and that's why I and many others don't even bother to watch the games anymore. If anything, bad BB is even more painful to watch than bad FB - perhaps that's DM's biggest hole card, at least for now.

 

[Double Gator Dad]

Who do YOU want to replace MW? Who is THE coach that is the HOT name that YOU would want and not complain about? In all realities, MW just hasn't gotten the job done. He recruits well but can't find the magic potion to get the teams to gel and play well. He probably should have been let go after the Elite 8 year cause we knew it wasn't sustainable. There just haven't been enough satisfying wins cause frankly most of them we feel lucky to win and they feel like losses. MW is 121-73 at UF and 63-43 in the SEC which is both 2nd in the SEC the last 6 years. UF is the only team to NOT have a losing record in the SEC in the last 6 years. All of that just doesn't cut the mustard. You are graded on how your team looks and how you do in March. Just not good enough.

Lets look at some names that we wanted instead of MW or to replace him. The Miller bros were very popular picks to replace White but BOTH had struggled and frankly flunked out at Zona and IU in a big way so they are out. Gregg Marshall would be a structured coach we would need but he resigned from Wichita St after allegations of verbal and physical abuse of players so that would leave him OUT. Brad Stevens would be MY dream pick but that is probably mostly wishful thinking cause he has had success at Boston and would probably get another high profile job in the NBA. Billy D will never be back at UF, he is done with recruiting and has had enough success in the NBA that he will stay there at Chicago or get another high profile job in the NBA. We missed out on Eric Musselman who has had success at Ark but now he is being linked to Minnesota to either the college or NBA team. Souhan; Coyle Would Be Aggressive In Replacing Pitino [PODCAST] Would we welcome Anthony Grant back to UF? He has had success at Dayton but its a lesser conference and he didn't do so well at Bama. Has he learned his lessons and could he come back to UF and do much better? Chris Beard did well for one season at TT when they won 31 games in the 18-19 season and got to the Final 4 and Elite 8 the year before but its been a mixed bag and struggle the other years including this year where they have been run off the court quite a few games. He has said that TT is his dream job so they would pay him handsomely to stay.

Where does that leave us and who does that leave us going after? Would MW really be fired during a time of Covid and when our star player is out with a career threatening condition? Is that telling other coaches that you can't let your top player have a medical condition? Its more than wins and losses, its how the team looks and plays. We need more structure and frankly the program is just lacking in cohesion, stability, and consistency. We as fans expect more from the program and coaches. We have to consistently get 20-24 wins every year at minimum. We must be the top team in the SEC. We have to get into the NCAAT and expect Sweet 16 every year. WHO is YOUR coach that turns this program around and brings it up to Billy D standards that he set?

Off the top of my head I can’t say who MY coach would be because I don’t get paid a half million dollars a year to conduct coaching searches.

What I wanted the administration to do 6 years ago was to look at two types of coaches:

1. The Chris Beard type of coach that might be looking for a higher profile job than a Texas Tech.

2. The many up and coming types like Nate Oats and Eric Musselman that had consistent success (including annual tournament trips) while building and maintaining winning cultures at smaller schools.

Instead of embracing this approach, our idiot AD Emeritus simply talked to a couple members of the Duke mafia like Jay Bilas, and hired a favored son of Duke’s AD.
White did not fit into either category and now we must admit that we got exactly what we went after, a nice guy with tremendous connections in the business that was never worthy of taking over what was a top ten program. He was able to win with the roster he inherited but hasn’t seen the second weekend of the tournament since and most likely will not this season either.

If you offer to pay me an AD’s salary, I will gladly do the research required to select the right, or should I say MY coach.

 

[Marine1]

So all the teams that have beaten us and will beat us have signed better players "right-out-of-the-box"?
Payne, a star in high school, like so many that star enough to be coveted by colleges, Payne is an unteachable wreck?

Payne is not unteachable. He came out of high school very unprepared. I’ve never seen him take a shot facing the basket. He has no footwork, drop step or spin move. No hook or step back. He never shoots because apparently he can’t. He can’t because he never had to. He dunks. He is a project not a star. I feared he was going to be a one and done. Instead he is a four year player and a contributor. I hope he stays because he is developing even if slowly. He is learning from scratch how to play the post at the college level. I really like the kid and I’m hoping he doesn’t transfer. I do believe we will see a better player next year.

 

[rogdochar]

I've seen high school videos of Payne doing his footwork spin, drop-step, baby-hook and he scored on what they filmed. He even faced-up and hit from 4 feet, 10 feet. Several times he quickly kissed it off the backboard, judging a slam attempt could be blocked. When he did those he flowed naturally. He even dribbled into scoring position. It was there in high school. Where did it go with 2 years at UF? His nascent skills contracted, they were not expanded upon?



There is even a behind-the-back pass in a crowd to start a fast break (.20 in the video.) His high school competition was tough. Maybe Payne only dunks because some coach has pressed on him that that's all he's good for = good for nothing but slam dunks. Payne was a typical 4* with great height & reach. At diminished minutes he's still second on the team in blocks.

Yes, Payne is a muddled basketball player now. Watch his UF games and he is a 2*, but why & how did he go 2 years backward? I just don't see a player self-diminishing his prior skill level. Don't see a good coach, who is charged with developing all his players, allowing that collapse?
Over 6 years how many players flourished under White vs how many diminished? Now there is a history worth stacking up. Naah, I'm just kidding. That's no way to look into it.

 

[lagator]

I've seen high school videos of Payne doing his footwork spin, drop-step, baby-hook and he scored on what they filmed. He even faced-up and hit from 4 feet, 10 feet. Several times he quickly kissed it off the backboard, judging a slam attempt could be blocked. When he did those he flowed naturally. He even dribbled into scoring position. It was there in high school. Where did it go with 2 years at UF? His nascent skills contracted, they were not expanded upon?



There is even a behind-the-back pass in a crowd to start a fast break (.20 in the video.) His high school competition was tough. Maybe Payne only dunks because some coach has pressed on him that that's all he's good for = good for nothing but slam dunks. Payne was a typical 4* with great height & reach. At diminished minutes he's still second on the team in blocks.

Yes, Payne is a muddled basketball player now. Watch his UF games and he is a 2*, but why & how did he go 2 years backward? I just don't see a player self-diminishing his prior skill level. Don't see a good coach, who is charged with developing all his players, allowing that collapse?
Over 6 years how many players flourished under White vs how many diminished? Now there is a history worth stacking up. Naah, I'm just kidding. That's no way to look into it.

I'm not sure what you were watching but that video shows the exact same player. Shot blocker with no offense other than put-backs and dunks. He hasn't regressed at all, he just hasn't developed.

 

[Marine1]

I'm not sure what you were watching but that video shows the exact same player. Shot blocker with no offense other than put-backs and dunks. He hasn't regressed at all, he just hasn't developed.

I agree....that’s what I see. Interestingly I did some poking around online and saw a evaluation that is very close to what I have been saying. Nbadraftroom.com put an eval on Payne coming out of high school that said he was athletic and an elite shot blocker but his offense is well behind his defense and would likely require several years of development to bring up his game. In other words....very raw on offense...which is exactly what we have seen. But the potential exists longer term. I’ve said I really believe this kid could be a factor the next 2 years.

 

[rogdochar]

I'm not sure what you were watching but that video shows the exact same player. Shot blocker with no offense other than put-backs and dunks. He hasn't regressed at all, he just hasn't developed.

Payne did what was needed with his dunk put-backs. at the .20 mark he executes a behind-the-back pass to initiate a fast break = a very coordinated movement that you apparently exclude from his ability & thinking. at the .30 mark he kisses a score off the glass (which he does a few more times in this game.) Many times he blocks shots 10 feet from the basket, that's excellent defense. He makes opponents alter their outside shots (defense that helps his team win). All this is a 4* performance 2 years ago.



Early in this video he smoothly shoots a 15 foot swisher that nobody's gonna block without fouling him. He's done that his senior year through many games. He has shown that ability. Denying him that now, you have to be basing it on what you are seeing now = what is occurring under 2 years of White's tutelage. I don't care about Payne specifically. I am alerting to a coach that has failures like this on a 6'11" 4*. I'd rather Payne play for us like the 4* coveted player he was 2 years ago. But if White and most of GC consider him useless, I'd rather he go elsewhere and have a chance to develop. We won't much miss him. Spare us the frustration.

 

[Marine1]

I've seen high school videos of Payne doing his footwork spin, drop-step, baby-hook and he scored on what they filmed. He even faced-up and hit from 4 feet, 10 feet. Several times he quickly kissed it off the backboard, judging a slam attempt could be blocked. When he did those he flowed naturally. He even dribbled into scoring position. It was there in high school. Where did it go with 2 years at UF? His nascent skills contracted, they were not expanded upon?



There is even a behind-the-back pass in a crowd to start a fast break (.20 in the video.) His high school competition was tough. Maybe Payne only dunks because some coach has pressed on him that that's all he's good for = good for nothing but slam dunks. Payne was a typical 4* with great height & reach. At diminished minutes he's still second on the team in blocks.

Yes, Payne is a muddled basketball player now. Watch his UF games and he is a 2*, but why & how did he go 2 years backward? I just don't see a player self-diminishing his prior skill level. Don't see a good coach, who is charged with developing all his players, allowing that collapse?
Over 6 years how many players flourished under White vs how many diminished? Now there is a history worth stacking up. Naah, I'm just kidding. That's no way to look into it.

Nobody is heralding MW as a great coach. Nearly all would prefer a change.

Payne has the potential to be a much better player but he has to bear responsibility. Castleton barely got on the floor at Michigan; is not particularly athletic; yet has developed a complete array of post moves and has become very competitive. I believe Payne could and should do the same. Will he?

 

[Marine1]

Payne did what was needed with his dunk put-backs. at the .20 mark he executes a behind-the-back pass to initiate a fast break = a very coordinated movement that you apparently exclude from his ability & thinking. at the .30 mark he kisses a score off the glass (which he does a few more times in this game.) Many times he blocks shots 10 feet from the basket, that's excellent defense. He makes opponents alter their outside shots (defense that helps his team win). All this is a 4* performance 2 years ago.



Early in this video he smoothly shoots a 15 foot swisher that nobody's gonna block without fouling him. He's done that his senior year through many games. He has shown that ability. Denying him that now, you have to be basing it on what you are seeing now = what is occurring under 2 years of White's tutelage. I don't care about Payne specifically. I am alerting to a coach that has failures like this on a 6'11" 4*. I'd rather Payne play for us like the 4* coveted player he was 2 years ago. But if White and most of GC consider him useless, I'd rather he go elsewhere and have a chance to develop. We won't much miss him. Spare us the frustration.

I for one...hope he doesn’t transfer. He came to college extremely raw offensively. Next 2 years he could be contributing. He’s already an elite rim protector and defense has improved. He has to want it. I don’t think MW is telling Castleton (who avg 3pg at Michigan) to shoot while telling Payne not to. Watch the difference in the post....Castleton works hard and calls for the ball...plays with fire and passion. Payne has a flat affect on the court and never calls for the ball. If he gets it he immediately gives it up. When have you ever seen him square up or put the ball on the floor?

I will say this....I would like to see more and longer sets with him and Castleton paired up. I think that help him.

 

[Spurdog98]

He should transfer and give himself a shot to get better and get drafted.

 

[Spurdog98]

I for one...hope he doesn’t transfer. He came to college extremely raw offensively. Next 2 years he could be contributing. He’s already an elite rim protector and defense has improved. He has to want it. I don’t think MW is telling Castleton (who avg 3pg at Michigan) to shoot while telling Payne not to. Watch the difference in the post....Castleton works hard and calls for the ball...plays with fire and passion. Payne has a flat affect on the court and never calls for the ball. If he gets it he immediately gives it up. When have you ever seen him square up or put the ball on the floor?

I will say this....I would like to see more and longer sets with him and Castleton paired up. I think that help him.

Sounds like a kid afraid to make a mistake and get pulled. Wonder why?

 

[g8tr76]

Payne has had some moments, but passing and ball handling aren't his stromg suits!

 

[Towels 'N Sporks]

I think payne is going to transfer as well, although I hope he doesn't. I don't think he's going to make it in the NBA at all. Not skilled and doesn't seem to have a high basketball iq or even a high motor.

Reminds me of maureice speights with half the talent.

 

[Marine1]

Sounds like a kid afraid to make a mistake and get pulled. Wonder why?

Makes me wonder why Castleton who almost never got off the bench at Michigan and averaged 3 pts per game doesn’t have the same worry? Time for Payne to man up, step up and play with intensity. He could make a difference in the post season if he does. I’m rooting for the kid to make his move now.