Saudi oil tankers hit by ‘sabotage attack’ amid Iran standoff

Discussion in 'Politics' started by g8tr72, May 13, 2019.

  1. gatorev12

    gatorev12 Banned
    BANNED

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Messages:
    3,190
    Oxbucks:
    $3,687
    Ratings:
    +3,750 / -496
    Long-term, yes: shale states will do well and there will be economic bumps in those areas too as oil zooms up to $100+ a gallon again.

    But it'll mean your price at the pump will be $4.50+ for the foreseeable future. Unless you're in the oil and gas industry, that doesn't benefit consumers very much and will likely cause Obama-style recessionary drag on the rest of the economy.
     
    • g8r.tom

      g8r.tom Well-Known Member
      Lifetime Member

      Joined:
      Nov 17, 2017
      Messages:
      2,115
      Oxbucks:
      $2,032
      Ratings:
      +2,128 / -70
      You are wrong. I do understand about oil prices, maybe even better than you. OPEC is not our friend. They have tried to damage US oil production in the past. They tried to lower the price to run our guys out of business in the last few years. But good ole American ingenuity happened and the shale developers beat them. US shale oil is profitable at lower prices than OPEC now. So anything that hurts OPEC I am for. Will it affect our economy? of course, but we are stronger and much more diversified than them or Russia and can take it longer than them.

      Bring it on. We can increase production and the price in lives Iran will pay will be very costly for them and their leaders.
       
      • g8r.tom

        g8r.tom Well-Known Member
        Lifetime Member

        Joined:
        Nov 17, 2017
        Messages:
        2,115
        Oxbucks:
        $2,032
        Ratings:
        +2,128 / -70
        Maybe, maybe not. We have a much stronger oil production industry now than we did then. And it won't just be shale states that will do well. All US oil producing states will do well, shale or not.
         
      • gatorev12

        gatorev12 Banned
        BANNED

        Joined:
        Aug 17, 2018
        Messages:
        3,190
        Oxbucks:
        $3,687
        Ratings:
        +3,750 / -496
        Yea, I'm not claiming OPEC is our friend or denying that they've tried to damage our emergence as a shale producer. All of those things are true.

        But if you're sitting here and saying that oil prices wouldn't zoom up in a Middle East conflict with Iran, your claim to understand oil markets is laughably off-base. The price would zoom north of $100 per barrel and that would have tons of economic drag associated with it.
         
        • Detroitgator

          Detroitgator General Factotum
          Lifetime Member

          Joined:
          Jul 15, 2014
          Messages:
          15,743
          Oxbucks:
          $9,463
          Ratings:
          +16,095 / -92
          As long as you understand that almost all OPEC oil is traded in dollars and what that means in terms of keeping the velocity of the USD up, OK.
           
        • gatorev12

          gatorev12 Banned
          BANNED

          Joined:
          Aug 17, 2018
          Messages:
          3,190
          Oxbucks:
          $3,687
          Ratings:
          +3,750 / -496
          No, that's a firm "not." When the price of oil rises, it's an economic drag across the board for multiple industries. This is a proven and indisputable fact.

          The US would have benefits too as a major oil producer..but it wouldn't be enough to offset the losses to other economic sectors.
           
          • g8r.tom

            g8r.tom Well-Known Member
            Lifetime Member

            Joined:
            Nov 17, 2017
            Messages:
            2,115
            Oxbucks:
            $2,032
            Ratings:
            +2,128 / -70
            Not once have I claimed that.
             
          • g8r.tom

            g8r.tom Well-Known Member
            Lifetime Member

            Joined:
            Nov 17, 2017
            Messages:
            2,115
            Oxbucks:
            $2,032
            Ratings:
            +2,128 / -70
            Some battles are worth some pain. Especially if your stronger than your opponent. And we are.
             
            • gatorev12

              gatorev12 Banned
              BANNED

              Joined:
              Aug 17, 2018
              Messages:
              3,190
              Oxbucks:
              $3,687
              Ratings:
              +3,750 / -496
              This. A fact everyone seems to overlook when the whole "let's just get out of the ME and become energy independent" crowd pipes up.

              To be clear: I support us being energy independent. But our security umbrella and diplomatic protection for the OPEC nations is more for the economic and geopolitical benefits to the dollar at this point than anything else.
               
              • gatorev12

                gatorev12 Banned
                BANNED

                Joined:
                Aug 17, 2018
                Messages:
                3,190
                Oxbucks:
                $3,687
                Ratings:
                +3,750 / -496
                It's true: we're stronger than Iran. We can beat them in any armed conflict. We would win an economic conflict too.

                Armed conflict will cause short and medium price spikes to oil prices and supply...and will cause lots of damage to the global economy (we might be fine..many of our allies we trade with would not be).

                Iran is playing a weak hand because they're backed into a corner and they don't have much else to play. It's what Obama *should* have done rather than his pathetic "deal"...but didn't. Trump moving some forces to the region and making it clear we'll respond to force with force is the right move. Hell, even the Chinese are telling Iran to back down in their govt-run media outlets.
                 
                • Swamp Donkey

                  Swamp Donkey US Flu Deaths 30000-80000yr, Wuhan Deaths 2k
                  Lifetime Member

                  Joined:
                  Jun 9, 2014
                  Messages:
                  57,848
                  Oxbucks:
                  $50,785
                  Ratings:
                  +75,630 / -4,571
                  Im all in. Til the death.

                  The problem is the Sunnis are a bunch of pampered pvssies.
                   
                • Politigator

                  Politigator L-boy's Cousin
                  BANNED

                  Joined:
                  Oct 5, 2018
                  Messages:
                  2,863
                  Oxbucks:
                  $984
                  Ratings:
                  +993 / -1,494
                  Serious question, because I don't know. What exactly have they done that warrants the recent escalation during the Trump years. I totally get they are bad actors, aren't saints and apparently fund interests that oppose our interests, and chant death to America and death to Israel, but what are they doing specifically that makes them relatively worse than others out there?

                  Impression I get is Bolton is hell bent on regime change and Trump is playing along.
                   
                  • Detroitgator

                    Detroitgator General Factotum
                    Lifetime Member

                    Joined:
                    Jul 15, 2014
                    Messages:
                    15,743
                    Oxbucks:
                    $9,463
                    Ratings:
                    +16,095 / -92
                    Yeah, some people did some things.
                     
                    • Taco Gratis

                      Taco Gratis Clear eyes. Full hearts.

                      Joined:
                      Jun 2, 2016
                      Messages:
                      4,069
                      Ratings:
                      +3,110 / -199
                       
                      • Detroitgator

                        Detroitgator General Factotum
                        Lifetime Member

                        Joined:
                        Jul 15, 2014
                        Messages:
                        15,743
                        Oxbucks:
                        $9,463
                        Ratings:
                        +16,095 / -92
                        One of these decades, lboy will get it.
                         
                        • Swamp Donkey

                          Swamp Donkey US Flu Deaths 30000-80000yr, Wuhan Deaths 2k
                          Lifetime Member

                          Joined:
                          Jun 9, 2014
                          Messages:
                          57,848
                          Oxbucks:
                          $50,785
                          Ratings:
                          +75,630 / -4,571
                          Start w Marine Barracks Beirut.

                          Google will do the rest.
                           
                        • Taco Gratis

                          Taco Gratis Clear eyes. Full hearts.

                          Joined:
                          Jun 2, 2016
                          Messages:
                          4,069
                          Ratings:
                          +3,110 / -199
                          This guy helped me get it.

                           
                          • Detroitgator

                            Detroitgator General Factotum
                            Lifetime Member

                            Joined:
                            Jul 15, 2014
                            Messages:
                            15,743
                            Oxbucks:
                            $9,463
                            Ratings:
                            +16,095 / -92
                            I’ll give it a watch!
                             
                            #38 Detroitgator, May 17, 2019
                            Last edited: May 17, 2019
                          • gatorev12

                            gatorev12 Banned
                            BANNED

                            Joined:
                            Aug 17, 2018
                            Messages:
                            3,190
                            Oxbucks:
                            $3,687
                            Ratings:
                            +3,750 / -496
                            Best way to answer it is: they've never changed.
                            The whole Iran "deal" was *supposed* to incentivize them via commerce and intl trade to "normalize" and become a functioning nation-state.

                            It failed.

                            They used the economic windfall to continue their revolutionary behavior: funding their proxy actors in Syria, Iraq, Yemen, and Lebanon; continuing work on ballistic missiles; and otherwise continuing on as normal.

                            Obama never called them out on it because he was desparate for a signature foreign policy "achievement." And gambled that Iran's leaders would either come good or age out. It's not that I don't understand the play, it's that it was flawed and doomed to failure from the beginning for being hopelessly naive.

                            Iran isn't our friend. They aren't interested in cooperation and coexistence.

                            If you truly, actually, want a source that outlines their recent moves...can happily provide. But that said: the above should be obvious.
                             
                            • Politigator

                              Politigator L-boy's Cousin
                              BANNED

                              Joined:
                              Oct 5, 2018
                              Messages:
                              2,863
                              Oxbucks:
                              $984
                              Ratings:
                              +993 / -1,494
                              That was 30 years ago. We gave quadaffi a pass for blowing an airliner out of the sky (until Obama basically reneged on it.)
                               

                              Share This Page

                              The Box

                              Help

                              You don't have the necessary permissions to use the chat.

                              • About Us

                                Our community sprung up when the Gatorsports message board was shut down in the summer of 2014. We pride ourselves on offering Gator-biased, yet critical discussion among people of all different backgrounds. We are working every day to make sure our community is the best Gator message board you will find.
                              • Like us on Facebook

                              • Buy us a Zima!

                                The management works very hard to make sure the community is running the best software, best designs, and all the other bells and whistles. Care to buy us a non-alcoholic Zima? We'd really appreciate it! Just click the "Donate" tab at the top of the page.