The arc of history

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Ancient Reptile, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Ancient Reptile

    Ancient Reptile Senior Member
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    In less introspective times, arrogant politicians proclaimed that "God is on our side". Fortunately, that silliness has waned as faith has diminished and the faithful have become more solicitous and less certain of God's will.
    The modern equivalent, which generously permits atheists to participate, is to declare that "history is on our side" and that whatever crudity is being perpetrared will be justified " by the long arc of history". One side seems to regard this position as their unique possession. Am I alone in thinking this formulation as even more arrogant than the last? Anyone share my disgust?
     
    • crosscreekcooter

      crosscreekcooter Cunning Linguist
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      [​IMG]
       
      • Lake Gator

        Lake Gator SUBMARINERS GO DEEPER
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        Yes, I share your disgust. Another oft-used phrase I find nauseating: The American People want...or the American People need ...or the American People expect... Since when are all Americans of the same mind on anything? And who the hell is anybody to claim they know what an entire national population wants? Annoying hot air.
         
        • Back Alley Gator

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          But...but....its for the CHILDREN!!!!
           
          • Lake Gator

            Lake Gator SUBMARINERS GO DEEPER
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            Can't argue with that phrase especially when delivered with a pained facial expression and trembling voice...CASE CLOSED!
             
            • Okeechobee Joe

              Okeechobee Joe Lost Ball in High Grass
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              I don't care if I'm on the wrong side of history. History doesn't always side with morality. Because society is becoming more tolerant of certain behaviors it doesn't necessarily mean that things are becoming more moral. It could easily be argued that we are becoming more tolerant of immorality.

              I'm with Pat Buchanan about which side of history to be on. Pat said that "history is not always on the moral side of issues so I don't care if I'm on the wrong side of history."

              Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "The arc of the moral universe if long, but it bends towards justice." That's a beautiful statement, but one man's justice is another man's tyranny. [Is that where the phrase the "arc of history" comes from?]

              And Abraham Lincoln said, "Sir, my greatest concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God's side, for God is always right."

              In a more pragmatic vein, Lincoln is reported to have said at the outbreak of the Civil War , "I hope to have God on my side, but I must have Kentucky". Kentucky was the cornerstone to Union victory in the Western theater. I put that one in there because I liked Lincoln's pragmatism.
               
              • Minister of Information

                Minister of Information Under budget & ahead of schedule

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                In the long game, justice simply means the validation of cause and effect. You reap what you sow.
                 
              • stephenPE

                stephenPE Senior Member
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                History arcs further than we want to believe sometimes............
                [​IMG]
                Is morality relative.
                 
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                • Ancient Reptile

                  Ancient Reptile Senior Member
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                  As part Choctaw myself, I get the bad treatment. What I don't get is how this excuses or even relates to the moral arrogance of assuming you are on the right side of history. Explain, please.
                   
                  • g8tr72

                    g8tr72 Well-Known Member

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                    Good luck with that.
                     
                    • Minister of Information

                      Minister of Information Under budget & ahead of schedule

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                      That's factually incorrect. If it wasn't for the diseases, there never would have been an America.
                       
                    • gatorev12

                      gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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                      The funny part about this arrogance is that they assume their "enlightened" secular thinking is going to be the future. As if societies haven't had radical secular movements before. History tells us that there's been several previous iterations of radical atheist secularists seeking to quash religion. In the 1700s. In the 1800s. And most notably: communism within our own lifetime.

                      All such efforts fail because for all their arrogance: no atheist secularist can provide meaningful answers to the important questions in life. Some of the most religious countries in Europe to this day are in former communist countries--after decades of being oppressed. Things cycle back around because morality, while at times restrictive, is a valuable check on pure hedonism and selfishness. If unrestricted, you find yourself in the situation of being forced to call a grown man a female alpaca because...well, that's what he wants to identify as and you're a bigot if you disagree.
                       
                      • Okeechobee Joe

                        Okeechobee Joe Lost Ball in High Grass
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                        Napoleon taught the French Revolutionists a thing or two about being on the right side of history.
                         
                      • stephenPE

                        stephenPE Senior Member
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                        Growing up in America we (I was ) were always taught to believe we were that moral beacon on the hill. That leader of the world in what is right and good. Even right or wrong we were pledged to be the best. I think at times we are on the right side and sometimes the wrong. I dont personally believe I am on the right side of history at this moment. I do think what poses as the leader of the free world is no one I could ever identify with. To me that is not taking sides it is just recognizing something repugnant for what it is. I do think what you read as moral arrogance and feelings of being on the right side is how this leader is viewed. I get that part. I think many believe their rejection of him makes them feel on the right side of history. I guess that might make sense. I will keep trying if you like but im off for the night.
                         
                        • Ancient Reptile

                          Ancient Reptile Senior Member
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                          I think you did right well. Guess you proved the doubters wrong. Of course, you are correct in observing that Trump is arrogant and lot more. Imo, the amazing thing about Trump is that he causes opponents to behave worse than him.
                           
                          • diehardg8r

                            diehardg8r Junior Member

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                            Something you could never identify with is repugnant. I'd the radical left and there actions are MUCH worse but you don't seem to concerned with that. I doubt seriously there is a single person from the republican primary with a chance to have actually won would have been viewed much differently than Trump is now. I'm not sure that he is so much different than Teddy Roosevelt is some respects.
                             
                          • Ancient Reptile

                            Ancient Reptile Senior Member
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                            Andrew, Teddy , Harry....there is a definite lineage to Trump''s presidency. I know that Andrew and Harry were vilified as "vulgar" and I wouldn't be surprised if Teddy was, although he may have been protected by his class.
                             
                          • AugustaGator

                            AugustaGator Junior Member
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                            Syphillus?
                             
                          • stephenPE

                            stephenPE Senior Member
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                            The radical left does not represent me or my country. Lock em up. Isnt that the mantra for his barking seals? I dont know any radical left people. What I do know is what I see and hear from the leader of the free world. It is disturbing at times and disgusting at others. But as long as the bottom line is met we gotta keep on keeping on.
                             
                            • stephenPE

                              stephenPE Senior Member
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                              maybe like breeds like. I have to say I like the title "the arc of history" That's what really caught my eye.
                               

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