Trump's withdrawal from Syria

Discussion in 'Politics' started by g8tr72, Dec 20, 2018.

  1. gatorev12

    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    Simple: if you don't intend to alter the situation on the ground and commit resources to the problem: don't publicly declare the official foreign policy position of the United States to be "Assad must go" and don't follow that up with "chemical weapons are a red line."

    As for ISIS: don't make stupid statements (noticing a pattern here?) that they're the "JV team" when your own intelligence agencies are saying "this is something to watch and be concerned about." And above all DON'T sit there with your fingers up your azz while they're driving in massive caravans across large swaths of Syria and Iraq without an air force or ability to stop a squadron of fighters from decimating their movements. It was easy to roll them back once we brought to bear our Air Force and allied partners: why the hell didn't he do it as they were making rapid advances over several months? Could have prevented a ton of civilian bloodshed in Iraq had he done so.
     
    • Politigator

      Politigator L-boy's Cousin
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      We largely did not get involved in Syrian conflict. And Obama took **** for that too. There really is no winning. By staying out of it, we let ISIS build up and also let Assad and Putin barrel bomb millions of refugees into Europe. If we enter the fray in a big way you get an outcome worse that Iraq. Bomb the hell out of them and walk away you get Libya.
       
    • Tay Bang

      Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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      We have people on the ground everywhere. Always. Drones and jets can do the rest.
       
    • Tay Bang

      Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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      You have no idea who did the actual barrel bombing...
       
    • Politigator

      Politigator L-boy's Cousin
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      We originally didn't enter Syria because it was a sovereign government.

      People want to have their cake and eat it too. They don't want to invade. Except when they do. Occupy. Don't Occupy. Back rebel forces. No, don't do that. We should stay, no lets leave.
       
    • NOLAGATOR

      NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines
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      Can you say Vietnam?

      And Obama got us BACK in Afghanistan a place where Alexander the Great could not conquer. The USSR, even being able supply troops from the ground FAILED.

      When will we understand they don't want what we are selling?

      As pearls unto swine.
       
      • AugustaGator

        AugustaGator Junior Member
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        Military Strategy? I thought this was known as a 'strategy'. The point is when.
         
      • NOLAGATOR

        NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines
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        Try the Constitution.
         
      • AugustaGator

        AugustaGator Junior Member
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        Yes, I hate Twotter.

        But I have no idea if this General was supposed to be in the loop. I am sure not all generals are on the need to know list for every operation. They will hear many things through the grape vine. The one good thing, he hears from horses mouth.
         
      • Politigator

        Politigator L-boy's Cousin
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        Conceptually I agree with non intervention. But when the likes of 9/11 or ISIS pop up we collectively don't have the will or resolve to not get involved.

        Afghanistan is unwinnable. I agree with what Detroit said that a true counterinsurgency would require 25-50 year commitment, and even then isn't guaranteed to work. However if we pack up and go home we leave another void for the likes of AL Queda or ISIS.

        Again all options are bad. Best you can do find the least bad choice. And even then you will take political crap because you made a bad choice (even though that may be least bad choice)
         
      • g8tr72

        g8tr72 Well-Known Member
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        • gatorev12

          gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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          The Greeks DID conquer Afghanistan: it was the Indians who stopped Alexander the Great, not the Afghans. And the Hellenic period lasted about 200 years in Afghanistan.

          Why this myth persists that the place has never been conquered is beyond me: after the Greeks left, the Persians ruled for damn near 500 years.
           
          • gatorev12

            gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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            Sounds like you agree Obama should have handled things far differently than he did. Wanting Assad gone...expecting that if he but uttered the words, that it would be so...then realizing the world isn't that simple and you have to act...belatedly acting and messing it up even then. Ditto for ISIS.
             
          • NOLAGATOR

            NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines
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            9/11 is different...we were attacked and handled the Taliban perfectly. We never should have gone back.

            And I'll say I was wrong about Iraq. I wanted it.

            You either fight a War like we first did against Afghanistan or like Japan and nothing in between and...Congress should declare war.

            You either go ALL OUT or Special OPS. And by all means you listen to your military once committed
             
          • Gator Fever

            Gator Fever Senior Member

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            Its crazy looking at Syria before and after pictures. At least with Assad the people could mostly live their lives and fundamentalist Islam wasn't allowed to control most things. I know we want to counter Iran's influence but that whole strategy just made things worse probably.
             
          • Detroitgator

            Detroitgator General Factotum
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            I don't know who "people" are, but I do know that you just summed yourself up perfectly.
             
          • Detroitgator

            Detroitgator General Factotum
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            Just curious, what changed our position after this dinner in 2009?
            [​IMG]
             
            • Detroitgator

              Detroitgator General Factotum
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              Like MacArthur in Korea? Chiefs of Staff with Cuban Missile Crisis? Help us out here... seems that much like "people," you want it both ways. Go figure.
               
              • Detroitgator

                Detroitgator General Factotum
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                Actually, to keep it accurate, I said 50 years minimum, that it would have to be multi-generational, but that wouldn't be palatable politically, so you'd have to say 25 years.
                 
              • Ancient Reptile

                Ancient Reptile Senior Member
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                I don't believe in"dislikes" but this sure does tempt me.
                 

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