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Discussion in 'Politics' started by g8tr72, Dec 20, 2018.
Oh! You learned from Obama's Libya mistake as well.
Lboy was allllll for the Arab Spring debacle.
Oh crap. Trump's lost Fox and Friends.
Yeah I was wrong on that one. I followed Obamas reasoning and it seemed sound at the time but in retrospect it didn't turn out well. Having said that I'm not sure what other options would have worked out better. I don't know if quadaffi could have stayed in power. We would have looked really stupid backing him after all the pro Arab spring rhetoric. I will say with both Obama and Trump for different reasons have lead to the perception (and reality) that we are an unreliable and fickle partner in international affairs.
But you’re right on this one? Sure
Yes. We are terribly unreliable, but Obama was also damn near worthless vis a vis the Kurds. Only slightly better than Trump. He was impotent vs Ersogan, THE rising problem in the mideast. There is little doubt that we backed the military vs Erdogan, then Bay of Pigsed them. We got tens of thousands of loyal, decent people killed. Often their sons too. I dont believe Obama meant to be blind to islamists, I suspect the problem was the Muslim brotherhood/ American Hamas/CAIR advisors throughout his staff, i cluding Huma Abedin and even a couple of generals who had a blindspot. Make no mistake about it we bombed Gaddafi and took him out. We werent the ones who finished him.w the bayonet up the ass but we took him out. We installed Al Quada affiliates in power in Libya and we tried to do the same in Syria. The people Obama supported in Southern Syria were cutting out the hearts of Syrian soldiers and police and eating them on youtube. THOSE were the Al Quade linked "moderate Muslims" Obama found in southern Syria. I have ZERO problem leaving them to their ends. Hell, get me the popcorn.
We got lucky the military took Egypt back also.
Yeah..... they all were. Obama was making world peace via thw Religion of Peace.
Again tens of thousands of deaths of moderate (really moderate, not MB) Muslims and Christians killed, entire neighborhoods burned or razed. We did get lucky the military took back the country, and I do give Obama credit for at least recognizing his mistake and supporting them. Firing that kvnt Sec of State and her insane advisor was the best move of his presidency.
You don't invade Syria because the anti-assad options are worse than Assad..... as bad as he is. Egypt, Libya, Syria, what difference does it make now though, huh?
Hillary, mcCain and Lindsay Graham arent neoconservative in anyway. They are NWO libs, chickenhawks when it comes to establishing Islamists govts they seem to love so much.
We need to stop trying to overthrow autocrats unless we have a plan for after. Some of these places are held together with string and spit and the only thing that's holding them together is a strong dictator. Take out the dictator and old tribal feuds take over. The only thing we and our European allies should have done in Syria is form a refugee safe zone so the refugees did not flood into Europe. Don't get involved in the fighting except bombing ISIS into kingdom come. Same thing with Iraq and Afghanistan. Maybe have a few people on the ground to point out targets. Let the local people shed the blood and tears. It's their country after all.
Silly man, you are sooooo wrong... don't believe me? Ask everyone here.
Trump Strikes a Blow at the Empire Michael S. Rozeff Trump is withdrawing American forces from Syria. He is withdrawing thousands of American forces from Afghanistan too, and he is talking to the Taliban. Trump has stopped refueling Saudi airplanes against Yemen. Trump is negotiating with North Korea. We can only applaud these moves and support them heartily. We can only hope that he does not by his own choice or pressures upon him reverse these measures or expand American operations elsewhere. We can be quite sure that Trump is now delivering actions that oppose what Hillary Clinton would have done had she been elected president. At the same time, Trump has increased the American force applied in Somalia and Yemen via drone strikes. He maintains the active U.S. interest in Africa begun by Obama, both military and economic, one sign being a new $60 billion International Development Finance Corporation. On Ukraine, Trump is holding back from supplying advanced arms. Despite pressures, he is not ratcheting up tensions over the Kerch Strait matter. Trump met with Putin at the G20 meeting. Anti-Russia and pro-Ukraine political elements had tried to torpedo this meeting with phony reports of a Trump threat not to meet Putin unless he backed down over the Kerch Strait. These attempts failed. Trump has had great difficulty filling top posts without appointing people from the “swamp” and people opposed to him personally and his basic policy of placing American interests first. It appears that the task he took upon himself to shrink the empire was more than he realized; and he under-estimated the bitter hatred of the pro-empire interests against him and his policy. Whatever his miscalculations, he is holding out and delivering some anti-empire results. The hostility toward Trump from an odd but united front of disparate elements has been enormous and unrelenting. These elements include liberal media, right-wing and Rockefeller Republicans, left-wing and centrist Democrats, evangelicals, neocons, pro-empire corporate interests, Deep Statists, anti-Russia antagonists, foreign policy and humanitarian moralists, political correctness crusaders, and globalists of all stripes including social media. Trump’s anti-globalism is an anti-empire attitude, not against world relations per se. He therefore is battling ways of thought, interests and institutions of empire that go back to 1789. He has to be given a lot of credit for out-maneuvering his domestic opponents and enemies. Trump has to be given credit for wisely biding his time until he could make the moves he is making. Just before Christmas is an excellent time to announce troop reductions. America used to greet bringing the boys home from foreign wars with applause. Now there is immense criticism from all components of the pro-empire contingent, who act as if the empire and Washington will crumble because 2,000 American soldiers are leaving Syria. The empire and its proponents have weakened America and subjected it to numerous harmful influences and forces. What rankles Trump is the globalism associated with the U.S. empire. At root, Trump disputes the immoral moralism by which the U.S. attempts to become the dominant world moral force. For an explanation of the relation between the empire and immoral moralism, see here. Making America Great Again is the opposite of a moralistic approach that seeks to make other countries over in the American image. But because immoral moralism is a deeply-embedded American philosophy, Trump is engaged in a very uphill battle. This is a battle likewise faced by libertarians.
Did you really call Hillary and McCain neoconservatives? You toss it out so casually, as if it's not just your opinion, but actually a commonly known and accepted fact. I respect your right to your own opinions, but you and I are clearly not on the same page.
Rev and Lboi believing everything the msm tells them. Including Fox.
Muslim brotherhood are some real humanitarians, let me tell you. #iheartmorsi
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