US Education in Shambles

Discussion in 'Politics' started by gatorev12, Dec 4, 2019 at 10:23 AM.

  1. gatorev12

    gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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    US schools failing to make much educational headway in intl testing, despite billions spent on education over the past 2 decades, the scores are pretty much identical to what they were in 2001.

    ‘It Just Isn’t Working’: PISA Test Scores Cast Doubt on U.S. Education Efforts

    Many, many reasons for it, obviously; but I think one of the biggest problems is the rampant and relentless efforts to politicize education. We're churning out professional activists and victim-seekers, not teaching critical thinking skills or reasoned debate. Higher education is even worse at the moment IMO and it's a direct result of the failures of K-12 education.
     
    • Gator By Marriage

      Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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      Interesting article and, to me, this quote was particularly so:

      "The top performers in reading were four provinces of China — Beijing, Shanghai, Jiangsu and Zhejiang. Also outperforming the United States were Singapore, Macau, Hong Kong, Estonia, Canada, Finland and Ireland. The United Kingdom, Japan and Australia performed similarly to the United States."

      I was surprised to see Japan scoring similarly to us. A deeper dive into the numbers and what the better group does differently from our group would be instructive.

      I was disappointed the article did not say where we ranked on the math and science part vis-a-vis other countries.
       
      • AugustaGator

        AugustaGator Junior Member
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        Hunger vs complacency.

        We are spoiled brats which working and delayed gratification is beneath us.
         
        • gatorev12

          gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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          I think we're 10th or 11th in science and around 14th in math based on this intl test. I read it in another article.

          The data tells me a few things:
          1)China was almost certainly trying to cherry-pick it's best school districts to pad its scores. Those are literally 4 of the top 5 wealthiest provinces per capita in the country and where some of the country's top schools are located. With fully centralized schools and govt over there, China can manipulate studies like this.

          2) the vast majority of the countries are in the top 10 are NOT immigrant societies. They are largely ethnically homogeneous countries and centralized education works a LOT easier as a result. Only Canada is truly ethnically diverse of those 10.

          I know immigration proponents like to prop up companies started by immigrants like Google and others...but none of those examples are children brought up in poor, rural farm communities, they were ALL highly educated individuals who (usually) spoke English AND had college degrees. IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE.

          Importing millions of poor kids that we have to educate is going to be an anchor on educational achievement and a drain on public finances. I don't hate immigrants by any means (my Mom is an immigrant from South America), but the present open borders lunacy infesting the Democrats and their media allies will have tremendous social cost to our country, and it's in no small part reflected in studies like this.
           
          • Durty South Swamp

            Durty South Swamp doodley doodley doo!
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            education system was just fine until the fed got involved. give it back to the states. its been on a precipitous decline since carter initiated the DoE in the 70s.
             
            • Gator By Marriage

              Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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              The Department of Education was split off from the Department of Health, Education and Welfare (which came about under Eisenhower), with the other parts becoming the Department of Health and Human Services. While this did happen under Carter, the fed govt. was involved in education prior to this split - the question of course is whether this splitmade things worse. The Department is actually abbreviated as DOED so as not to confuse it with DOE, which is the Department of Energy, which also came about under Carter.
               
              • GatorAlways

                GatorAlways Well-Known Member

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                Feel free to come by my wife's K-8 public school here in Florida - she'll be glad to show you the "professional activists and victim-seekers" sitting at their desks engaged in reading, writing and math. They have increased their overall test scores year over year the past 10 years, even while poverty levels in the school have moved to almost 90% of kids on free and reduced lunch.
                 
              • Durty South Swamp

                Durty South Swamp doodley doodley doo!
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                yet another dept that needs to be eradicated. we should make a list, and check it twice.
                 
                • gatorev12

                  gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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                  Sounds like your wife's school is one of the success stories, so congrats to her and her peers' efforts on being one. It's hard work and that's a sincere compliment.

                  But when 70% of America's kids can't name the 3 branches of govt; alarming percentages of 15 year olds read at levels expected of 10 year olds; and you see such strong support for totalitarian ideas and ideals among college aged students (namely: wanting to surpress speech and speakers they disagree with)...it's completely fair and accurate to observe that Education is failing on a macro level.

                  The top 20% of American students scored *better* than their 2001 counterparts across the board. But the bottom 10% scored worse and the other 70% did no better. That's a pathetic return on investment when we've spent billions in additional educational funding over the last 18 years.
                   
                  • Durty South Swamp

                    Durty South Swamp doodley doodley doo!
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                    Poverty levels have not "moved." Schools just give free lunches to damn near everyone nowadays.
                     
                    • Gator By Marriage

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                      It's also sad how little they know about geography. When my son was in 4th grade he made it to the finals of the Virginia state Geography Bee (and was the only kid in the finals not in 7th or 8th grade) and ended up finishing 7th. While I was of course proud of him, part of me was also wondering how a 4th grader did so well beating out so many older kids. Ironically he never finished that high again. He's now a freshman at UF and doing well, but whenever he gets too cocky, I remind him he peaked in 4th grade.
                       
                      • GatorAlways

                        GatorAlways Well-Known Member

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                        Um, you still have to qualify, and the qualifications haven't meaningfully changed

                        The poverty rate is set by the federal government.

                        Fact - my wife's school has went from 73% qualifying free and reduced lunch to 90% qualifying in just three years. That's for close to 600 children.
                         
                      • ThreatMatrix

                        ThreatMatrix In shambles
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                        The number one way to be poor in America is to be a single mother. I'm guessing there's a strong correlation between illiteracy and illegitimacy as well.
                         
                        • Swamp Donkey

                          Swamp Donkey Wait Til Next Year!!!!
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                          Good thing Obama's gone. He was shooting for 100% minority unemployment.
                           
                          • GatorAlways

                            GatorAlways Well-Known Member

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                            Another fact - my wife's school has just a 14.3% minority population.
                             
                          • Detroitgator

                            Detroitgator General Factotum
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                            You, your wife, me, and everyone else know that the meal program is a money game and not really indicative of anything.
                             
                            • cover2

                              cover2 I've grown old
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                              Just an opinion, but from where I've sat for 30 years now, education has struggled with balancing a requirement for consistent standards for learning and graduation with a population that is losing initiative and taking less and less responsibility for their own actions that impact advancement. The publicly unspoken feeling seems to be that standards must be adjusted to align with decreasing willingness to excel since we can't fail the high numbers that would result if the span of required standards stayed level or, heaven forbid, rose.
                               
                              • wrpgator

                                wrpgator Well-Known Member

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                                "Teaching to the test": While effective in 'raising' test scores, this trend in public education doesn't necessarily provide kids with a quality education. It may, however, make teachers, schools and districts look better while standards are steadily dumbed-down over time.
                                8th Grade Reading test, 2007, Virginia:
                                http://www.doe.virginia.gov/testing/sol/released_tests/2007/test07_reading8.pdf
                                Example: A story is presented called "Recycled Shoes" (featuring Nike® !) and the students are asked several gems like this one:
                                "The reader may best conclude that the sportswear company —
                                A donates many shoes to area kids.
                                B pays people for their old sneakers.
                                C recycles other types of sportswear.
                                D cares about the environment."
                                ----
                                This is the eighth-grade final exam from 1895 in Salina, KS:
                                8th Grade Examination from late 1800's
                                Grammar (Time, one hour)
                                1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
                                2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no Modifications.
                                3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
                                4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb. Give Principal Parts of. lie, lay and run
                                5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
                                6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
                                7. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.
                                Orthography (Time, one hour)
                                1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?
                                2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
                                3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, sub vocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
                                4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u! '.
                                5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.
                                6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
                                7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup
                                8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
                                9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane,
                                fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.

                                Cherry-picked? Okay, yes, but it's not hard to find examples similar to the above to conclude that young Americans are victims of educational malpractice in the 21st Century.
                                 
                                • Detroitgator

                                  Detroitgator General Factotum
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                                  Man, do I see this "fail" in the political chat box allllllll the damn time! ;)
                                   
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                                  • wrpgator

                                    wrpgator Well-Known Member

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                                    This is one of the biggest fallacies with regard to education in the West; more money gives better education outcomes (causality deceptively promoted--follow the money).
                                    Young Vietnamese children were taught elementary levels in single-room schools, many with dirt floors. Yet in spite of having limited English language skills when arriving in the U.S. as refugees after the fall of So. Vietnam, they became the valedictorians in our schools in the 80's & 90's.
                                     

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