What is immoral about a wall?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Bammer, Jan 6, 2019.

  1. Politigator

    Politigator L-boy's Cousin

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    In the short term you are probably right. Longer term the children are likely more educated and productive than an illegal immigrant male adult.

    You can't get around our demographic issues of our aging population and lower birth rates. But I'd rather have more legal immigration and a more deliberate process vs illegals.
     
  2. Politigator

    Politigator L-boy's Cousin

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    Is a wall moral? Not if it is really needed.

    Is additional wall really needed? Probably not. I think we have already fenced off all areas where it is logistically, geographically or legally efficient to do so. I'm don't think it warrants massive eminate domain.

    Is the wall good symbolically? Walls are just as often used to keep.people in vs keeping people out.

    Is it cost effective? No.

    Is there a crisis? No. Illegal immigration is not a record levels and far less than decades ago.

    Is there an illegal immigration issue? Yes. There are still far too many illegals coming in.

    Should we spend more on border security. Probably. But only if we are willing to pay for it.
     
    • gatorev12

      gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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      Extreme long-term, perhaps. Impoverished kids from rural Central America struggle to break out of poverty...especially when they're in rural communities without strong school districts. It's a huge reason why rural America is so fed up with illegal immigration: they bear the disproportionate costs when they have to support the children of farm workers with special-language education programs, welfare benefits and community aid, etc. Kids who are the children of doctors from Pakistan or software engineers from India and grow up in suburban school districts tend to do much better than average: it's true. But kids who come from stark poverty and grow up in impoverished areas tend to struggle just as much as American kids from impoverished areas.

      I think we've reached a point where having population growth for the sake of population growth is no longer as important. With automation growing across the board, the need for unskilled manual labor keeps going further down.
       
      • AugustaGator

        AugustaGator Junior Member
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        No one has ever been able to logically explain why this must be true.
         
      • gatorev12

        gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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        For most of human history, societies needed high population growth to sustain economic growth because of low life expectancy for working aged males (long hours, poor healthcare, wars, disease, etc). This continued into the Industrial Era when millions of workers were needed for factory and manufacturing work; and later, to support the social welfare systems that were implemented in the US and Europe during the Depression (and greatly expanded in the decades since).

        But advancing healthcare means workers are able to work longer and more automation means fewer workers are needed in manufacturing and farming--without causing a dent in production or worker productivity. People are still stuck in old paradigms, however, and assume we still need high levels of immigration to keep dynamic economic growth. I'm not sure that applies anymore...but it's certainly true that social welfare safety nets are based on old paradigms and Western leaders have been unable or unwilling to make reforms or come up with something new (leading to massive deficit spending and public debt).
         
      • NOLAGATOR

        NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines

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        Y'all kill me.


        It’s illegal to cross the border and stay

        No one is against legal immigration…It’s the illegal immigration

        What's preventing the criminals from coming? EVEN if it only stops ONE MURDER its worth it

        It is the right of every nation to control who comes into the country and who can stay

        With automation, we need more Trained and Educated labor not the other way around

        Trump keeps offering more to the DEMs and they keep saying NO

        And even if this is not as effective as we think it is…what does it hurt? $5Bil in a $3.6Tril budget…PLEASE


        You wait, when people start missing their paychecks and welfare the $#!^ will stop.
         
        • Okeechobee Joe

          Okeechobee Joe Lost Ball in High Grass
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          Why is this so hard for people to understand? Instead we get lectures from liberals trying to explain how compassionate they are and how bigoted the rest of us are; how tolerant they are and how racist the rest of us are. Good grief.
           
          • gatorev12

            gatorev12 Well-Known Member

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            Added to that is the liberal credo that multiculturalism is a desired outcome: where immigrants don't have to learn English or assimilate into society in the name of "tolerance" and "diversity." No one cares if you have pride in your cultural roots; but people who come here and loudly proclaim they're "Mexican, not American" and make zero effort to integrate into American society make the problem far worse.
             
            • Okeechobee Joe

              Okeechobee Joe Lost Ball in High Grass
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              That is the crux of the problem. Previous generations of immigrants came to America and wanted to assimilate and become Americans. A lot of the new influx of immigrants whether being Mexicans or Muslims do not want to assimilate but rather seem to want to impose their cultures on us. And a lot of people are perfectly fine with this. Not me.
               
              • Spurdog98

                Spurdog98 Well-Known Member

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                You are right about the wall on the Canadian border. Lets keep all those Vietnam draft dodgers from fleeing to Canada I've been reading about. :dunno:\

                Stick to Fortnight.
                 

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