Why did Trump.....

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Politigator, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Politigator

    Politigator L-boy's Cousin

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    ...wait until Democrats were elected to control the House before he decided to shut down government over wall? He has entirely republican Congress for 2 years. But he waits until democrats are elected who are less likely to give him what he wants?

    Political stunt or is he a much worse negotiator that he touts?
     
  2. Gator Fever

    Gator Fever Senior Member

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    He let Ryan and them hoodwink him because they agreed to some other stuff the last time. I do think he thought after the election was over they were going to get the 5 billion as part of the deal. McConnell isn't quite as bad as Ryan was but he is controlled by the Chamber of Commerce types money also.
     
    • Tay Bang

      Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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      Same reason the Pubs put Obamacare repeal on Obama’s desk every week for many years, knowing it would be vetoed, then nothing when Trump was elected. Why do you think Republicans are any different than Democrats? Good to see you are still in the Matrix, blindly taking your blue pill every morning.
       
      • Spurdog98

        Spurdog98 Well-Known Member

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      • NOLAGATOR

        NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines

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        He also wanted to put the DEMs on record. It's easy to scream when you are in the minority. Now they have to explain themselves.


        Trump is giving them way more than they originally asked for and he is not going to let the DEMs do what they did to Reagan…Promise a fence and then bail.
         
        • NOLAGATOR

          NOLAGATOR Deep Behind Enemy Lines

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          And soon this will affect the working Government Employee and Welfare.

          What, the Dems are going to let people go without a paycheck over $5 Bil?

          We spend $7 bil on Head start and STATS show it is ineffective.

          The War in Afghanistan is $45Bil/YR...You can't cut that $5Bil?
           
          • shabadoo25

            shabadoo25 Member

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            Politically, he needs the incomplete wall as an ongoing issue more than he needs the achievement of its completion.
             
            • Gator By Marriage

              Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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              Initially he was trying to not use taxpayer dollars as you may recall (whether that was realistic or not is a different question). Once the decision was made to use USG funding it became part of the budget process. Realistically, the 2019 budget (which should have been passed in the summer of 2018, or at least before September 30th if Congress took its' job seriously) was the first chance to do this. Even if the Prez had tried to do it in the 2018 budget he still would have had this problem as you need 60 votes in the Senate (to get cloture) to pass a budget. I don't doubt he expected this to be a fight, but no Prez (of either party) wants these govt. shutdowns in an election year. So, politically speaking, if you are going to go into one of these kinds of fights, this was the time to do it. (You can decide for yourself if these kinds of fights are good or bad.) Even if the GOP had kept the House, he would still possibly be having this fight, though in that scenario it would just be with Shumer instead of Shumer and Pelosi. So, this is not really a reflection of his negotiating skills (good or bad) nor a political stunt. Rather, it is a good look at how that town really works.
               
              • Gator By Marriage

                Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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                Actually, he wins either way. Incomplete wall he can now blame on his opponents in a way the average person will understand (which they would not if the GOP still had the majority in the House); completed wall (even a partial one) and he says look what i did. The only way he loses is if he signs a budget that does not have funding. Both sides are well aware of this, hence the standoff.
                 
                • diehardg8r

                  diehardg8r Junior Member

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                  Yeah, ACA getting passed during Obama's first term instead of it still lingering really screwed him in his re-election bid:loser:
                   
                • Tay Bang

                  Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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                  He's not a Politician. Try leaving the matrix for a moment. He will build the wall when funded.
                   
                  • Gator By Marriage

                    Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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                    This is a very good point. Looking at this Prez through the normal political lens does not work. He didn't come up through the system like every president since JFK. Whether you love him, hate him, or something in between, you have to admit he marches to his own beat and is going to do whatever he thinks is the right thing to do.
                     
                    • AlexDaGator

                      AlexDaGator The Hammer of Thor
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                      Did you forget about his broadcast meeting with Schumer and Pelosi?

                      He knew he needed to overcome a Dem filibuster in the Senate. He needed about 10 votes for the wall from Schumer. Pelosi argued that there wasn't even support in the House for a wall. The House promptly called her on it and had the vote. At least that's my recollection.

                      A slim majority in the Senate does him no good if the Dems are willing to filibuster.



                      Alex.
                       
                    • shabadoo25

                      shabadoo25 Member

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                      Not sure how. Polling is currently 70/30 against the wall. Meanwhile, we will start getting inundated by people hurt by the shutdown stories reproducing at a rapid rate as each week goes by.
                       
                      • Tay Bang

                        Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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                        Tell us about these polls. Dive into them a little if you actually can find one. You know, the wording of the question, party distribution, political leanings of the group that paid for the polling.
                         
                        • shabadoo25

                          shabadoo25 Member

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                          Fair point. But if it were more in favor, Dems sure would have more incentive to cave in.
                           
                        • Tay Bang

                          Tay Bang I might have been mean to Byrd
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                          Dems will not give in to Trump. He is an outsider. And his base are outsiders. They cannot give him a win for his base. Anyways, as far as Dems are concerned, no border security is good. More Democratic voters. But you know this. It's a shame. You appear to be a bright guy, but you just keep spouting blue talking points instead of actually thinking.
                           
                          • Gator By Marriage

                            Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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                            Polling? Are you kidding? This isn't about the general public. This is about his base. And about his ego.
                            As for the shutdown, mark my words: Congress will ultimately get the blame for the shutdown, They always do, no matter which party is in charge. (Especially when it's only for $5B - that sounds like a lot of money to you and me, but it's chump change in that town.) He can hold out longer than they can. The pressure will start first on the House members from the DC area (there are after all about 350K employees there and they all vote). Then it will hit staffers whose neighbors are feds and finally all the house members every time they go to the grocery store, Starbucks, the mall or anywhere else. I spent over 31 years working for the USG, with about 12 of those in the DC area and went through several shutdowns. It's the same thing every time.
                             
                          • shabadoo25

                            shabadoo25 Member

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                            I don't know of a single Dem who is opposed to smart border security, personally. However, 3rd century solutions don't qualify.
                             
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                            • shabadoo25

                              shabadoo25 Member

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                              Starting today, the Democratic House is going to start passing bills to open individual departments. GOP House members are expected to cross over and vote for them, too. This will up the pressure on the Senate and Trump to end things and soon.
                               
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