DC Patrick Toney & the Defense

[Daryl]

No, but it sure as hell shouldn’t make it a hundred times worse on third down.

If a defense is bad its bad on every down, Hell, if anything the 3rd down rate magnifies how bad it is.
Every week what do we say as fans, "fkn Dean again" or Burney or Miller in coverage ect. You think any OC worth his whistle isnt also watching this? If I'm on 3rd n long I know all I gotta do is find Dean or Burney or isolate Miller on my TE and I know I'm hitting the lottery. As a DC you can only do so much when you have that many guys in your back 7 who cant cover.

 

[Daryl]

The Stats speak for themselves. We're dead last in the country on 3rd down. Dead last. We give up more 3rd downs than ANY other SEC team including Vandy and South Carolina. The coach responsible for this atrocity needs to be demoted or removed. Period.

Yes because 4 DCs in under 2 seasons just screams job security to every coach out there.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Also UF Fans: That young guy learning on the fly was confused, fire Errbody

You forgot Itraz: "Everybody on this defense is 1st Day Draft talent......

 

[Daryl]

Ok, youre right. my eyes are telling me lies every week. Dean is awesome. Fire Toney

Put in your resume, ill back you. Clearly your talents are being wasted here, should be on the sideline making millions.

 

[Daryl]

You forgot Itraz: "Everybody on this defense is 1st Day Draft talent......

Same unit went from 3rd in Grantham to 3rd in Toney. Clearly its all on the coaching and not the players.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Same unit went from 3rd in Grantham to 3rd in Toney. Clearly its all on the coaching and not the players.

I know it couldn't be that our DB's despite having a 10 yard cushion to work with still aren't fast enough to keep opposing WR's from getting behind them, or tall enough to break up a pass, same with the LBer's who aren't fast enough to stay with a TE or keep half a dozen running plays per game from getting to the corner and turning into field flipping gains or big/strong enough to stick a RB and keep him from getting to the sticks on 3rd down....

Again I don't like to pick on our guys for their effort but the physical deficiencies are pretty obvious especially against conference peers..

 

[SGG]

There was a play last night, where the tight end went in motion across the formation, Shemar James was moving across the formation to cover him and Ventrell waved him off. ANY qb worth his salt is going to send the tight end on a seam, wheel, or skinny post against a lb like Miller. As soon as I saw him wave off James, I knew we were completely fuched.

 

[G8trwood]

 

[5-Star Finger]

Yup, I saw the same thing. It's another point that has me thinking this guy is in over his head. We're asking guys to do things they weren't built to do (this is just one example) and that's on the guy implementing the scheme. It's one thing to ask Watson to anchor down and tie up blocks to keep them from climbing when he's (at best) one McChicken from four bills - but asking guys that have great first steps to take on doubles just seems stupid to me. They are going to end up getting pushed and catching the linebackers up in the trash.

Typically the offense I run is mostly out of 11. This is, at least in part, since I have an unhealthy love of pop pass RPOs, especially one that goes to a TE of the sniffer variety. We didn't have a guy that could play the role this year. I even tried getting a couple of the defensive guys proficient in spring. While they were mostly able to block well enough, they all have hands like a well-greased skillet. Guess what? Scheme had to change. No one is paying me millions to realize that.

 

[PaulDrake]

Reading this thread is surreal. Lots of analysis about stunts and pushes. But the bottom line is 3rd down. It's increadingly obvious on 1st and 2nd downs the Gator D looks normal in all respects. Its amazing how many times the D gets the other team in a 3rd and "long" position. I'd like to see the stats on THAT. And when I say 3rd and long I mean 3rd and a train ride. 3rd & 18, 3rd & 22, 3rd & 30. And then with the snap of a finger 'BOOM' 1st down. It's almost as predictable as the sun rising. One can almost see the opposing team's OC grinning like that damn dog in Knoxville after that win over Bama and thinking, "YEAH! We've gott'em RIGHT WHERE WE WANT THEM." Ane what's maddening is Toney is either incompetent or too damn over his head to figure out a scheme or call to mitigate getting those 1st downs like clockwork. I've been a Gator for over 45 years and I've seen a lot of BAD Gator football teams and especially defences. But I've NEVER seen a defence THIS bad. This is rock bottom. One can almost see Whittingham taking the tapes of their game with us and burning them in the school incinerator.

 

[G8trwood]

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Same unit went from 3rd in Grantham to 3rd in Toney. Clearly its all on the coaching and not the players.

We went from one shytty DC to another. TG was a known quantity. And it was known he was garbage. Toney was an unknown quantity that turned out to also be garbage.
If Toney had a record we could look at it but he doesn't. JFC he was a coordinator at a Sun Belt team for two years. Two whole years! To make that jump to the SEC he would have to be a child prodigy. He ain't.
Do we have player problems? Yes. But that's what coaches are supposed to do. Make players better and design schemes that give them a chance. Have either of those things been done? Or improved over the season?
I'm willing to the roll the dice and dump PT. I'll risk that 10 years from now he turns out to be a defensive savant.

 

[Egor's Assistant]

Yes because 4 DCs in under 2 seasons just screams job security to every coach out there.

Wasn't Grantham fired midway through last season? Dan stuck with him until it was too late to save even his own job.

Toney had all off-season including Spring and Fall to get his system implemented. He simply sucks at calling 3rd down defense.
So we went from really bad "3rd and Grantham" to even worse. There was only one coaching change. Mid-season changes are temporary bandaids.

It's abundantly clear that Toney is in over his head. He's learning on the job. SEC OC's are eating his lunch. Sunbelt coordinator not ready for the big time. Why should we put up with a kid learning on the job? Is he banking croot after croot? If not, see ya kid. HIt us up when you learn a thing or two about 3rd down stops.

 

[G8trwood]

new Halloween how to scare Gators

 

[Spurdog98]

In the SBC, UL led the conference in the lowest completion rate, lowest QB rating, led the conference in sacks, was 2nd in QB pressures and had the second lowest DPI and led in passes defended. I am willing to concede that he may be in the process of a SEC learning curve that's pretty grueling and the WR and QB's in this league are way better but I think it's a little early to blame the schemes but he does need to make some adjustments based on the talent of his personnel. As a SBC guy he is probably reeling at the talent level on offense as opposed to what he's used to defending.

But Napier shouldn't be. He spent plenty of time in the SEC..enough to know. Someone pointed out that we still aren't physically where we should be and that is true. Our pass rush isn't where it needs to be for Toneys schemes to be successful, particularly on 3rd and long where SEC coaches aren't willing to run a draw play for 8 yds and punt. But rushing 3 is plan dumb and that is on Toney. He needs to dump that immediately and in fact find a LB or S that can run with TE and let Miller blitz off the edge maybe opposite of Cox. Maybe Dean should get the TE assignment that way he doesn't have to think too much.

It ain't all on Toney. We are thin at WR, QB play is erratic at best and special teams are also lacking at times. I do think talent needs to get better through recruiting and they need some more time. It is hard to understand why we looked worse on D Saturday than any game so far.

 

[Back Alley Gator]

Maybe we will play better on the road....lol. Four of our next five will be away.

 

[jdh5484]

Maybe we will play better on the road....lol. Four of our next five will be away.

It will be a challenge for sure.

 

[Daryl]

In the SBC, UL led the conference in the lowest completion rate, lowest QB rating, led the conference in sacks, was 2nd in QB pressures and had the second lowest DPI and led in passes defended. I am willing to concede that he may be in the process of a SEC learning curve that's pretty grueling and the WR and QB's in this league are way better but I think it's a little early to blame the schemes but he does need to make some adjustments based on the talent of his personnel. As a SBC guy he is probably reeling at the talent level on offense as opposed to what he's used to defending.

But Napier shouldn't be. He spent plenty of time in the SEC..enough to know. Someone pointed out that we still aren't physically where we should be and that is true. Our pass rush isn't where it needs to be for Toneys schemes to be successful, particularly on 3rd and long where SEC coaches aren't willing to run a draw play for 8 yds and punt. But rushing 3 is plan dumb and that is on Toney. He needs to dump that immediately and in fact find a LB or S that can run with TE and let Miller blitz off the edge maybe opposite of Cox. Maybe Dean should get the TE assignment that way he doesn't have to think too much.

It ain't all on Toney. We are thin at WR, QB play is erratic at best and special teams are also lacking at times. I do think talent needs to get better through recruiting and they need some more time. It is hard to understand why we looked worse on D Saturday than any game so far.

I looked at some of his games with UL, in 2020, the yr Iowa St beat Texas, OU and Oregon, the UL defense held their offense to their worst showing of the season at home. Their QB was 16-35 for under 150 yards.
Their defense also shut down ApSt last season, a team considered to be pretty capable offensively.
So, even in the Sun Belt, if your scheme was trash I have a hard time believing it would lead a Conf in many categories such as passing and scoring.
Hell, their Bowl Game vs Marshall they held that QB to 15-26 for 99 yards. Same QB threw for 3,500 yards that season with a 67% comp
I can’t see trash schemes doing this at any level. JS, It’s not all Toney