Evaluating Recruiting Evaluations: Are all 3 Stars created equally?

GatorTom85

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I found this this article and while reading it I started to wonder just how much of the "star hype" these ranking generate is really valid based on what is really behind these rankings and, more importantly, what isn't.

https://www.seccountry.com/florida/...ommits-proving-to-be-better-than-their-rating

It turns out there is a pretty wide range of scoring evaluations per service and on all of them there tends to be a pretty wide range of scoring mapped to each star level which is especially interesting at the 3 and 4 star levels. A quick spot check of some of these values showed that the actual scores for a lot of highly offered three stars end up being just a few points short of the 4 star threshold and some less heralded 4 stars are often just over that threshold. Therefore without further digging to get the actual evaluation numbers and methodologies involved, these star ratings can end up being pretty misleading since all 3s and all 4s are not even remotely created equally.

These rankings also do not fully take into account the varying levels of competition across the high school spectrum which is clearly different depending on where the athletes happen to live. They also don't fully take into account the competitiveness of a particular team which, for instance, can lead to "statistic stuffing" for the few capable skill players on a bad team. They also don't necessarily account for scheme differences either so a kid like Trask ends up as a lower tier recruiting candidate because he had the misfortune of being a pro style prospect zoned for a team that ran a spread.

That's why no coach in his right mind should ever be concerned about these recruiting sites for anything but quick stats gathering and film viewing because the data they are already collecting for themselves, especially once they get locked in on a potential player, should be far superior in assessing both scope of ability and level of fit for their specific program. The good coaches also pride themselves on their formula for evaluating talent and recruiting talent so they have their own "secret sauce" embedded in their processes. Coach Mac's unique approach clearly includes assessing the mental and psychological make up of these kids which is another area missing from the Star ratings. I think that is a very important set of criteria too because at the end of the day these kids are just that - kids - and attributes like character, integrity and passion are much better indicators for determining how well a kid will fare when leaving home to come into a large college environment complete especially with the myriad of demands and temptations that come with being an athletic recruit at a major university.

This somewhat cursory review has only reinforced my theory that these recruiting evaluation entities are even less dependable as evaluation resources than Mel Kiper's Big Board and the like from the NFL (and we all know how accurate those can be!). I therefore believe more strongly than ever that the identification of "blue chip" players that is offered by these sites is to be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism given that their rating criteria are not standardized across services, are focused predominantly on physical traits with little offered around character, and incorporate game stats and team success related evaluations that do not fully account for talent fluctuations across teams, schools and regions.

(In other words we just might have to be patient and wait to see how these recruits work out before actually declaring the class a failure or success (like we did in the old days :eek:ldman:).)

Now, let the :beating::cry2::crazy::deadhorse::gah::panic::suicide2: begin... :popcorn:
 

ATXGator

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While I agree with this, I would argue that the majority of kids who are 4* and 5* are better than those who are 3*. It is proven by the number that make it to the NFL. If you look at the teams that are consistently dominant in college football.. you will see they have classes made up of 4* and 5* guys with some 3*.

We need to get back to that, but it isn't going to happen until McElwain can put a more exciting product on the field. I think that will happen this year.

I don't think coaches look at the sites, but they go to camps and they know who the top kids are. A coach can see a 5* as much as the recruiting service and that is why these guys go after these top recruits... because they are the best athletes and best at what they do.
 

alcoholica

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Stars do and don't matter. We saw some of Urban's highly touted classes show up and produce while other flat out failed. I can tell you for certain that while Urban was here, he recruited based solely on stars. I think if you do your due diligence (which I think Mac and Co. do) then stars do matter. If you don't do your diligence, then they don't matter and it's luck of the draw.

Concerning 3*s, you have to trust your coaches, but they are really calculated risks. Davis at LB was not supposed to be this good. He didn't have elite athleticism, so what happened. Apparently, he has a ton of intangibles like leadership and work ethic that don't typically show up in a rating. Kylan Johnson is another guy who was a tweener 3* safety. While he has yet to play an SEC down, his spring was very impressive. So he had potential and the position move worked out. Fred Johnson, Zuniga, and Kalif Jackson were all 3* with potential. Some of these guys will pan out, some won't. What you don't want to see are polished 3*s without physical ability. If you are going to take a 3*, they have to have something that makes them worth a risk.

As you go up to 4* and 5* guys, you see more natural ability along with potential. You also have to weed out the character issues. Some 4* may be tapped out on physical potential, but are very polished and have better physical ability than a 3* with similar skills.
 

GatorTom85

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Stars do and don't matter. We saw some of Urban's highly touted classes show up and produce while other flat out failed. I can tell you for certain that while Urban was here, he recruited based solely on stars. I think if you do your due diligence (which I think Mac and Co. do) then stars do matter. If you don't do your diligence, then they don't matter and it's luck of the draw.

Concerning 3*s, you have to trust your coaches, but they are really calculated risks. Davis at LB was not supposed to be this good. He didn't have elite athleticism, so what happened. Apparently, he has a ton of intangibles like leadership and work ethic that don't typically show up in a rating. Kylan Johnson is another guy who was a tweener 3* safety. While he has yet to play an SEC down, his spring was very impressive. So he had potential and the position move worked out. Fred Johnson, Zuniga, and Kalif Jackson were all 3* with potential. Some of these guys will pan out, some won't. What you don't want to see are polished 3*s without physical ability. If you are going to take a 3*, they have to have something that makes them worth a risk.

As you go up to 4* and 5* guys, you see more natural ability along with potential. You also have to weed out the character issues. Some 4* may be tapped out on physical potential, but are very polished and have better physical ability than a 3* with similar skills.

Agreed. And all of those factors are what need to be a part of a coaching staff's evaluation process which by definition will not necessarily align with recruiting services evaluations. The main idea behind my post was that there are too many variables beyond just the factors involved with a star rating to just dismiss the results of a recruiting class based solely on the cumulative recruiting rankings - or to label a coach as a poor recruiter over their perceived lack of star gathering.
 

GatorJ

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Star system is a quick look at eyeballing talent. Their actual number rating gives you a better idea of their potential. By the way, none of the recruiting sites grade athletes on their potential in the NFL. It's on their potential in college.
 

GatorTom85

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While I agree with this, I would argue that the majority of kids who are 4* and 5* are better than those who are 3*. It is proven by the number that make it to the NFL. If you look at the teams that are consistently dominant in college football.. you will see they have classes made up of 4* and 5* guys with some 3*.

We need to get back to that, but it isn't going to happen until McElwain can put a more exciting product on the field. I think that will happen this year.

I don't think coaches look at the sites, but they go to camps and they know who the top kids are. A coach can see a 5* as much as the recruiting service and that is why these guys go after these top recruits... because they are the best athletes and best at what they do.

Not arguing with that, but it is also not a certainty that a player with a higher 3* rating is going to be that much better or worse than a player on the lower end of the 4 star spectrum. Yet these ranking services and their associated team rankings, taken at face value, end up causing people to assign a disproportionate level attention to the star counts even when the actual ratings show there is more parity between the players' actual numeric ranks.

In the end, though, no one really knows how well a class is working out until at least a couple years after they arrive on campus. To fully acknowledge that, however, folks would have to reserve their judgments on recruits until they'd had a chance to display their real value. Where would be the fun in that? :eek3:
 

Concrete Helmet

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Back in the old days coaches wanted in house visits to gauge genetic potential. If his prospective LB was 6'0" 205 and dad and big brother were around the same size that guy would become a plan B prospect, if dad and big brother were 6'2" and packing 235-245 then he became an A prospect, if said prospect also had a 9th grade brother who was already 195# then the coach considered himself a family friend.....
 

Swamp Donkey

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Fred Johnson, Zuniga, and Kalif Jackson were all 3* with potential.
Fred Johnson has improved a lot from what I have seen. He may need to move inside if we can actually find a tackle but for a kid WHO SHOULD BE A REDSHIRT FRESHMAN and a guy who was a huge reach, he is a pleasant surprise IMO. He shouldn't be written off.

I haven't seen anything from Zuniga or Jackson that makes me think they should be on scholarship next fall when we need to be pushing some off the ship.
 

Bernardo de la Paz

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The guy Zach thinks was the best 3 star of the bunch flipped to bama. :facepalm:
 

alcoholica

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Fred Johnson has improved a lot from what I have seen. He may need to move inside if we can actually find a tackle but for a kid WHO SHOULD BE A REDSHIRT FRESHMAN and a guy who was a huge reach, he is a pleasant surprise IMO. He shouldn't be written off.

I haven't seen anything from Zuniga or Jackson that makes me think they should be on scholarship next fall when we need to be pushing some off the ship.
Agreed, Zuniga had some nice film and was raved as being underrated by most, but he's lost like 15 lbs. Not sure what he expects to do. Jackson has the potential to be a poor man's Benjamin. Possession situations will probably be his only real contribution unless he develops.
 

T REX

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Pumper propaganda designed to make us all feel good about the disproportionate number of three stars on our roster. All of our three stars are better than everyone's else's. And everyone else's four/5 stars have problems. We are definitely in the better situation recruiting wise.

Feel good about your three stars. I do! It's working already.
 

Gator98MD

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man that was a fresh jam by crucial. he should of had some live footage of himself busting it on the mic though. I need more of the bowl
 

BMF

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Of course all 3-stars are not "created equally". What I get tired of is EVERY 3-star commit we get we have comments like "Oh, he's way underrated" Really? Have you looked at the kids in front of him? These services that rate kids are often wrong...so are draft "experts". But these people do this for a living. Or comments that imply that our coaching staff is better at evaluating talent than other coaching staffs. What makes anyone think that one coach is better than another coach at evaluating the talent of 3-stars? If anything, coaches at Boise State, Missouri, North Carolina (schools that don't usually sign top-25 classes full of 4-stars) have coaches that evaluate 3-star talent better. UF is a school that should average better than 3.6 stars (meaning we sign more 4 and 5 stars than 3-star or below, to bring our average over 3.5). I know plenty of 3-stars become superstars....but I know more of them are likely to be mediocre vs. 4 and 5 star talent.
 

GatorTom85

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Pumper propaganda designed to make us all feel good about the disproportionate number of three stars on our roster. All of our three stars are better than everyone's else's. And everyone else's four/5 stars have problems. We are definitely in the better situation recruiting wise.

Feel good about your three stars. I do! It's working already.

Glad to hear that you've seen the light. It's about time.
 

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