Bianchi makes some pretty good points

[Tunaboat]

Sorry but for a couple years they were one of the best teams in the league. Boselli and Searcy up front, Brunell, Smith, McCardell etc. They made the playoffs 4 years in a row, winning their division in 98 and 99 and had the best record in the NFL in 99 and the #1 seed in the playoffs. They just couldn't figure out Steve McNair and all three of their losses that year were to the Titans.

OK, they've sucked this entire century then. My bad.

 

[ChiefGator]

It's been said before but it bears repeating.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/open-mike/os-sp-tim-tebow-mets-20170719-story.html

"All Tebow ever did as a quarterback was win — a state championship in high school, two national championships and a Heisman Trophy in college and a playoff victory during his only season as an NFL starter.

Never in history has there been a quarterback chosen in the first round of the NFL draft who was given less of a chance to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. Look it up: Other than Tebow, there’s never been a quarterback who compiled a winning record (8-4) as a starter, took his team to the playoffs in his only year as a starter and never again started another game.

The reason for this is simple: NFL coaches didn’t think Tebow was good enough to justify the hype and hullabaloo that came with having him on the roster. Don’t tell me Tebow wasn’t at least good enough to be a backup QB for the Browns or the Bills. Except NFL coaches don’t like it when their backup QB is a cultural icon and sells more jerseys than the starting QB."

Tim did not have success in the NFL, because almost no coach would create a custom offense to maximize his performance. Part of that resistance is having two such QBs on your team. It is very nontraditional in today's NFL, I also think that no owner saw the massive positive effect he would have in the community.

Now perhaps other factors effected it but I think these are the two major ones.

 

[ATXGator]

Tim did not have success in the NFL, because almost no coach would create a custom offense to maximize his performance. Part of that resistance is having two such QBs on your team. It is very nontraditional in today's NFL, I also think that no owner saw the massive positive effect he would have in the community.

Now perhaps other factors effected it but I think these are the two major ones.

Or maybe he wasn't a very good passer... No coach wanted to force their offense to be so one-dimensional. Denver won a playoff game with him, but it isn't like they were tearing it up offensively. They won because of defense and a strong running game.

Tim just couldn't seem to figure out making quick decisions and accurate passes in the NFL. For some reason his accuracy was much better in college and I think it is because they messed with his delivery to shorten it and make it quicker. I think he would have been better off never changing his delivery and allowing his running ability to give him extra time because teams would be worried about that...

 

[stephenPE]

Statistics and mechanics do not trump winning. He was a winner. He elevated the play of his team mates cause they KNEW he would leave it all out there on the field and was fearless. He found a way to win. I think the def played better for him. Leadership was under rated in his case.

 

[ChiefGator]

Or maybe he wasn't a very good passer... No coach wanted to force their offense to be so one-dimensional. Denver won a playoff game with him, but it isn't like they were tearing it up offensively. They won because of defense and a strong running game.

Tim just couldn't seem to figure out making quick decisions and accurate passes in the NFL. For some reason his accuracy was much better in college and I think it is because they messed with his delivery to shorten it and make it quicker. I think he would have been better off never changing his delivery and allowing his running ability to give him extra time because teams would be worried about that...

The custom office is because he was not the passer than traditional (today) NFL offenses use. I agree somewhat with his delivery, but he needed that threat of running to set up the entire offense.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

Tebow in two different training camps after his 3 seasons, admitted wouldn't take a position change for the Patriots. But it's further prove that College success doesn't mean NFL success.

Actually they don't... he had four opportunities to latch on to a team. So your saying Bianchi's changing of his win/loss record, the 27-24 td/to ratio, or the fact that he doesn't fit into roughly 90% offenses makes his point. You are reading with your O/B glasses, you in turn need to look at this as an NFL GM. Do I want to bring in a guy, that if my starter goes down we have to change our offense for? Change our protections for? Is that something we want to have to do mid game? If Tebow had gone CFL route to learn the passing game better, maybe there is more of an argument. Tebow was functional on a team that ran the Muschamp offense, and beat only one team with a better than .500 record and that was the Steelers in the Playoffs. That won't work in the NFL.

So you can't really contribute to this thread? Look I am a Tebow QB skeptic. He was not in Wuerffel's zip code as a passing QB at UF. I have never thought he was good at reading a defense. He was as he might say blessed by a superior WR in Harvin to go to in a pinch at UF.

But the facts are the facts. Tebow led an NFL team to the playoffs. He led an NFL team to a playoff win. That is what a competent NFL team should be looking for in a backup. Any NFL team with an established QB that wastes their time with a young backup they are only likely to develop as a starter for another team is foolish.

My own view the issue for Tebow was first of all anti-Christian bias in the sports media. That fed into NFL coaches insecurities and thus many NFL teams went with far less capable backups than Tebow over the last several years for non-football reasons.

Also as Bianchi stated this is highly unusual for a first round pick. A better argument for you and a contribution to the tread might be that only one coach quickly fired considered Tebow a first round pick and his treatment more matches that of where the consensus of his draft status. That still omits his production and proven ability to lead a good team to the playoff and win a an early game and buy time to get your starter healthy, but it is at least an argument on topic.

 

[TheDouglas78]

So you can't really contribute to this thread?

So stats don't contribute, a breakdown of his actual record does. Issues teams have specifically pointed out about Tebow isn't contributing....

Look I am a Tebow QB skeptic. He was not in Wuerffel's zip code as a passing QB at UF. I have never thought he was good at reading a defense. He was as he might say blessed by a superior WR in Harvin to go to in a pinch at UF.

College success has nothing to do with NFL success,.

But the facts are the facts. Tebow led an NFL team to the playoffs. He led an NFL team to a playoff win. That is what a competent NFL team should be looking for in a backup. Any NFL team with an established QB that wastes their time with a young backup they are only likely to develop as a starter for another team is foolish.

So a team should be looking for a qb that doesn't fit there system, but has one a game against a .500+ team. That is your definition. Do you watch any NFL football? So I run a pro spread offense, my starter gets knocked out. Am I going to bring in a guy who can't read defenses to fit my offensive scheme? The backups main job is to not turn the ball over, and not lose the game. In 16 games started he has 24 turnovers, that is 1.5 turnovers a game.

My own view the issue for Tebow was first of all anti-Christian bias in the sports media. That fed into NFL coaches insecurities and thus many NFL teams went with far less capable backups than Tebow over the last several years for non-football reasons.

If he could win games they wouldn't give a $hit about he controversy. NFL can deal with controversy if you can help a team. Douchecanoe from the 49ers isn't employeed because he started asking starter money to be a backup. Then when you looked at his splits he has been garbage his whole career as a starter, when the offense wasn't tailor made for his ability to run. He stopped running, he is garbage.

What you are saying that a league with a number of successful and hall of fame religious quarterbacks, Tebow was too religious for them? If you think it is an anti-Christian bias have you not heard of Kurt Warner, Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson, etc...

Also as Bianchi stated this is highly unusual for a first round pick. A better argument for you and a contribution to the tread might be that only one coach quickly fired considered Tebow a first round pick and his treatment more matches that of where the consensus of his draft status.

While that is true, McDaniels is a coach who believed in Tebow, and was ready to build an offense around him. As I've already stated, you have to have a offense for Tebow's skills (you might have forgot to read that). Regardless, he was drafted with the 27th pick and that is what he was saddled with.

That still omits his production and proven ability to lead a good team to the playoff and win a an early game and buy time to get your starter healthy, but it is at least an argument on topic.

Again, you are omitting the fact he doesn't fit in to 30 of the 32 offenses in the NFL. So what you are saying, lets change our offensive philosophy for a fill in, for a few weeks. Not limit the playbook change the offensive philosophy. Then to have the starter come back with no offensive rhythm because they would be running a different offense. If he could contribute he would be on a roster.

You omit the facts that don't help your argument, because they are facts. He has been to training camp for two other teams. One of those teams employee McDaniels as their OC, and the other one ran a form of the spread option.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

So stats don't contribute, a breakdown of his actual record does. Issues teams have specifically pointed out about Tebow isn't contributing....

College success has nothing to do with NFL success,.

So a team should be looking for a qb that doesn't fit there system, but has one a game against a .500+ team. That is your definition. Do you watch any NFL football? So I run a pro spread offense, my starter gets knocked out. Am I going to bring in a guy who can't read defenses to fit my offensive scheme? The backups main job is to not turn the ball over, and not lose the game. In 16 games started he has 24 turnovers, that is 1.5 turnovers a game.

If he could win games they wouldn't give a $hit about he controversy. NFL can deal with controversy if you can help a team. Douchecanoe from the 49ers isn't employeed because he started asking starter money to be a backup. Then when you looked at his splits he has been garbage his whole career as a starter, when the offense wasn't tailor made for his ability to run. He stopped running, he is garbage.

What you are saying that a league with a number of successful and hall of fame religious quarterbacks, Tebow was too religious for them? If you think it is an anti-Christian bias have you not heard of Kurt Warner, Philip Rivers, Russell Wilson, etc...

While that is true, McDaniels is a coach who believed in Tebow, and was ready to build an offense around him. As I've already stated, you have to have a offense for Tebow's skills (you might have forgot to read that). Regardless, he was drafted with the 27th pick and that is what he was saddled with.

Again, you are omitting the fact he doesn't fit in to 30 of the 32 offenses in the NFL. So what you are saying, lets change our offensive philosophy for a fill in, for a few weeks. Not limit the playbook change the offensive philosophy. Then to have the starter come back with no offensive rhythm because they would be running a different offense. If he could contribute he would be on a roster.

You omit the facts that don't help your argument, because they are facts. He has been to training camp for two other teams. One of those teams employee McDaniels as their OC, and the other one ran a form of the spread option.

Let's see:

1. I did not mention a stat about Wuerffel or Tebow in college unless you want argue zipcode is a stat? I was discussing reading a defense and that can carry over.

2. Most teams change their offense and scale it back when they must go with their backup QB. So I am less sure than you, that any NFL teams would need to change their offense any more for Tebow as a back up than any other backup.

3. You seem to be missing Bill James' point that talent in professional sports is not normally distributed, but is the upper tail of the distribution. Since this is the case all the Tom Brady and Joe Montanas are in the NFL. On the other hand for the marginal NFL QB there are a whole group of people pretty close in ability and some get roster spots and some don't based perception of talent, coaching biases, etc.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Let's see:

1. I did not mention a stat about Wuerffel or Tebow in college unless you want argue zipcode is a stat? I was discussing reading a defense and that can carry over.

No one said you did. Wueffel could read a defense and stayed as a back up for many years until he decided to retire. Tebow wasn't asked to read more than a quarter/half the field (according to Meyer) through out college. In all four of his stops the fact that he didn't read the whole field was brought up. Do other teams not hear that?

2. Most teams change their offense and scale it back when they must go with their backup QB. So I am less sure than you, that any NFL teams would need to change their offense any more for Tebow as a back up than any other backup.

I mentioned limiting their playbook, but look at what Denver ran that Tebow as comfortable with. Tebow being left handed also hurts his ability to be a backup (not as much as his run first mentality). I so believe the coaches at UF and post UF messed with his throwing motion too much. Which caused him to over think reads.

3. You seem to be missing Bill James' point that talent in professional sports is not normally distributed, but is the upper tail of the distribution. Since this is the case all the Tom Brady and Joe Montanas are in the NFL. On the other hand for the marginal NFL QB there are a whole group of people pretty close in ability and some get roster spots and some don't based perception of talent, coaching biases, etc.

Not missing it. Most coaches are bias to a traditional offense. The rules are set up for a more traditional offense. A marginal quarterback who can make quick reads and make medium throws can excel in a traditional offense. Tebow is best set for an offense similar to what he ran in Denver offense. Also he is a quarterback that puts his body in harms way on a regular basis. Why did he have success against the lower rung teams, but struggled mightly against top tier teams?

 

[CGgater]

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Bianchi needs hits....and a Tebow topic is a great way to get them....

Couldn't agree more. BMF nailed it.