Bits & Pieces: Florida vs. Florida State

[BMF]

C2, I'm as disgusted as anyone about this situation. I think it's painfully obvious McElwain is the coach next year. If (when) we lose 4 or more, it should be obvious to the new AD it's time to cut our losses. The stadium will be half full for most games, especially after all hope is lost when we get blown out by Michigan (make no mistake, we're nowhere near on par w/ Michigan).

This team is poorly coached. Has no pride. Has zero discipline. No depth. Terrible OL play. Terrible OC. And they should be ashamed of themselves.

McElwain has now been blown out 6 times in 2 years....with a 7th blowout just a few days away.

Are there any pumpers still pumping? There's no silver lining to what we saw last night.

For those who think Fisher is a "bad" coach or whatever:

He's now 9-1 vs. the SEC (6-1 vs. the Mighty Gators).
He has another future star at QB (again, he's the best QB coach in CFB: 1 Heisman winner, 2 #1 overall NFL draft picks, 4 total 1st round draft picks at QB. For comparison, in Spurrier's 30 year career as a CFB coach he had 1 Heisman winner and 1 QB (barely) taken in the 1st round).
He's finish w/ a better recruiting class that UF....again. Has he had a class ranked lower than any of ours since he's been there?
He just turned down $7 million/year from LSU (Unbelievable!).

Has the fat lady sung, yet? The Penn St kid was probably a yankee anyway that wants to stay home.

Huh? He's a yankee so we didn't really need him? We now have ZERO HS DT's for the 2nd year in a row. Do you see this as okay? This coaching staff needs to get their sh*t together asap. There's no excuse for what is happening ON THE FIELD and in the recruiting wars. This coaching staff is sh*t. Period.

 

[G8trwood]

OT, but UCLA just fired their OC....just sayin

 

[GBHOR]

You can't fire a HC that wins the East in his first two years, or else no name coach will consider UF as long as Stricklin is AD.

I don't think we have to worry about winning the east next year

 

[GBHOR]

When you lose your best DT recruit at the biggest position of need...it's ok to be pissed.

Yeah, we didn't want him anyway. BS. At some point, can you make this staff accountable for anything? Let me know.

But we won the east, lmao

 

[RocketCityGator]

How can you refuse to try something different when it's obvious what you have isn't working? I just don't get it.

Forgive the "I told you so", but this is what a lot of us were saying this time last year.

 

[t-gator]

I have a serious question for the group.

Do you believe that there is any real discussion at the highest levels about Mac's future or are we kidding ourselves and he is on the 4-5 year program?

I would like to think that Mac is aware that the clock is ticking but I have lost all confidence in this athletic program so I really don't know.

Three more years of this and we are on our way to the football witness protection program.

This is a good a question . Maybe someone here has an idea of what the bullgators are thinking ?

 

[oxrageous]

I still don't subscribe to the theory that no coaches will want the UF job if Butters is canned. Never have, never will. EVERYONE in the whole damn country knows how bad the east is, it's not an accomplishment.

 

[Durty South Swamp]

I still believe we are playing with house money.

Our O-line is still new and our entire offense is underclassman.

We need to wait for a MAC recruited QB to get up to speed.

We have played on the road in 6 of our last 8 games. If nothing else, that will prove well for next year's team.

Well, this guy certainly lives up to his name.

 

[Bama&GatorFan]

As an Alabama (primarily) and Florida fan, I want Alabama to win but I'm afraid Florida is just going to get crushed in the title game. I hope the Gators give them a good game, but I don't think the Florida offense has a prayer against Alabama's defense. My thoughts:

-McElwain will have one more year, at least. It is hard to fire a guy who wins his division of the SEC his first two years. It could be worse. Look at Tennessee and South Carolina...
-Hopefully one or both of the young quarterbacks will play well next year. Hindsight is 20/20, but I wish one of them had played this year. At least they would have some experience.
-I really thought the Gators could run the ball on FSU and that their defense would play better. I think injuries have hurt their performance.
-Worst thing of all is to see what is happening to the Gators' recruiting. It is going to take a long time to recover from this.

 

[oxrageous]

As an Alabama (primarily) and Florida fan, I want Alabama to win but I'm afraid Florida is just going to get crushed in the title game. I hope the Gators give them a good game, but I don't think the Florida offense has a prayer against Alabama's defense.

You can't be a fan of both, sorry. Pick one and go with it. I'd advise against picking Florida.

 

[Bama&GatorFan]

You can't be a fan of both, sorry. Pick one and go with it. I'd advise against picking Florida.

Yes, they are my two favorite teams! I'm glad they are playing for the SEC Championship.

 

[cover2]

You get 3 years. When you take over a dumpster fire with decimated positions, and get a 6-year contract, you're given 3 years minimum to turn things around. And if I'm being objective, there HAVE been a few things moving in a positive direction. The young defensemen have surprised, and there have been "glimmers" on the O-line. Receivers are a strength, and the future of the secondary looks positive.

That said...a game like last night RUINS any momentum on the trail you might have had after LSU, and the ONLY way this turns around is getting top talent. We didn't have to win last night, but we DID have to compete, which we didn't do. Last night's game might have been the most damaging to Mac of any other. Unless we somehow find a way to be competitive this Saturday, our recruiting rank won't get better, and next year will be his last.

I'm hoping somehow we find a way to compete Saturday, and close with a surprising class, because I'm getting too fcvking old to start over again.

Go Gators!

Agreed about the defense and some of the younger guys stepping up and stepping in. I am in the same camp about how much a loss to F$U hurts Mac and his recruiting efforts, especially since we have scored no offensive TD's under him in his two games with them as the HC. I hope I'm wrong, but as stated in the OP I think F$U continues to kill us in-state with the top guys unless Mac can somehow pull a rabbit out of his hat. The DT that de-committed on the heels of the loss doesn't bode well and I'm afraid it isn't just some of us here on this board that are coming to feel like there are several disconnects where revitalizing the program is concerned. We can write it off to lingering past problems and so forth, but the bottom line is that you've got fix the broken pieces, and pretty quickly, in order to make the program appealing to your targeted recruits and this just doesn't appear to be happening IMHO. Consecutive SECE titles is good, but two bad losses to your top in-state rival followed by a poor showing in the SECCG (this year is still pending, of course) and a bowl (again, still pending this year, but last time was a disaster) and there ain't much shine left.

BUTTERS!!!!!! that is all to be said about this performance. I was away and watching on a crummy TV, but the funny thing is that everything I made a mental notE of, you so eloquently mentioned Cover2. The one that you caught also was the FSU TD pass. when I saw the ball in the air, I said that should be picked. Well as I have said since RFN, our safety play is horrendous. I will not go on, but this is why records, numbers and stats can lie. Just watch with your own 2 objective eyes and all you can say is BUTTERS!

With only a couple of notable exceptions, the book on Mac thus far is that he isn't very competitive against the better competition. Again, consecutive SECE titles is good and you have to get there to get to the SECCG and beyond. But my eyes tell me what most reasonable fans know and that is that the East is fair to middling at best and we are the best of the worst in the SEC this season. I do like our kids that have come in and grown in the program, but this is a tedious process that takes time and with a roster that is not near full enough of guys that can come in and have an immediate or second-year impact, it makes it very difficult to compete with the better teams on the schedule (even a few lessers like Arkansas). It all starts with the QB position, which has been a sorry state of affairs for the last 7-8 seasons, but the OL/DL positions have beena particular worry as well. Until this changes, we shouldn't expect much better than what we've been getting. And if Mac continues to have such a difficult time offensively, then we'll continue to be the guys with a first-rate defense and a second-rate resume.

After reading and watching his presser, he's kind of gone from the glib New Bohemian to a guy who's feelings are easily hurt when someone questions his preparation and effectiveness. I'm wondering if he's got the sand to be the guy when I look at this type of public display combined with the continuous offensive struggles and needed in-game adjustments that never seem to be made. Injuries are a problem, but the aforementioned struggles have been happening even when we were enjoying good health. When, if ever, is there going to be a discernible change?

 

[cover2]

C2, I'm as disgusted as anyone about this situation. I think it's painfully obvious McElwain is the coach next year. If (when) we lose 4 or more, it should be obvious to the new AD it's time to cut our losses. The stadium will be half full for most games, especially after all hope is lost when we get blown out by Michigan (make no mistake, we're nowhere near on par w/ Michigan).

This team is poorly coached. Has no pride. Has zero discipline. No depth. Terrible OL play. Terrible OC. And they should be ashamed of themselves.

McElwain has now been blown out 6 times in 2 years....with a 7th blowout just a few days away.

Are there any pumpers still pumping? There's no silver lining to what we saw last night.

For those who think Fisher is a "bad" coach or whatever:

He's now 9-1 vs. the SEC (6-1 vs. the Mighty Gators).
He has another future star at QB (again, he's the best QB coach in CFB: 1 Heisman winner, 2 #1 overall NFL draft picks, 4 total 1st round draft picks at QB. For comparison, in Spurrier's 30 year career as a CFB coach he had 1 Heisman winner and 1 QB (barely) taken in the 1st round).
He's finish w/ a better recruiting class that UF....again. Has he had a class ranked lower than any of ours since he's been there?
He just turned down $7 million/year from LSU (Unbelievable!).



Huh? He's a yankee so we didn't really need him? We now have ZERO HS DT's for the 2nd year in a row. Do you see this as okay? This coaching staff needs to get their sh*t together asap. There's no excuse for what is happening ON THE FIELD and in the recruiting wars. This coaching staff is sh*t. Period.

Fisher may not have his personal life in the best state and he probably isn't the guy you most want to hang out with, but one thing's for sure...he has destroyed Mac and our guys for two straight seasons (not to mention beating Muschamp 4 out of 5 if I'm remembering correctly) and he's owned us in recruiting. That just can't continue and us expect to be any better comparatively than what we've seen.

 

[Alagator]

....I'm wondering if he's got the sand to be the guy...

Meanwhile... I'm wondering if he has sand in his vagina.?.

 

[GMDGator]

With our enormous amount of injuries and some of Macs comment in the past... Is it possible Mac thinks some of our guys are not playing out the string of their last year in order to protect their draft status? One thing is for sure, UF,and UT have tons of injuries, while it seems Bama has hardly any... How can that be?

 

[Since65]

Any insight into what advantages there may be in the Offensive Coordinator coaching from the sidelines as opposed to up in the booth? Nussmeier is one of the few that do it that way. Kiffin also walks the sideline but most OC's are upstairs for (I assume) a better vantage point? It's not like the NFL where they are going over pictures of formations/plays with the QB during defensive series.

I have more patience with someone who does it differently if they actually had success doing it differently. I was hopeful when Nussmeier was hired but his performance at UF coupled with his resume really does not inspire much confidence at this stage.

That being said, I continue to maintain that it's all about the QB. If and when the Gators put a guy behind center who can throw, read coverages and move around in the pocket, even a little bit, they will show offensive improvement. A playmaker at the position would camouflage some of the shortcomings of the offensive line.

 

[cover2]

With our enormous amount of injuries and some of Macs comment in the past... Is it possible Mac thinks some of our guys are not playing out the string of their last year in order to protect their draft status? One thing is for sure, UF,and UT have tons of injuries, while it seems Bama has hardly any... How can that be?

Just an opinion, but in some cases it could be the men vs. boys thing, particularly where the OL and DL are concerned. If we're playing a lot of younger players out of necessity, often times they are not as developed physically to withstand the grind of facing the more mature players and if there's not a depth for some rotation, it magnifies the problem. The guys in the trenches typically take 2 years (or more) to grow into the demands of their positions. For most that means rearranging some weight...losing the baby fat and gaining muscle while also increasing agility. We've probably had to play a lot of guys that just weren't quite ready yet. Recruiting these groups is a giant priority and if we're lucky we'll pick up some top level talent, some of which might actually be ready to come in and take some meaningful snaps. Here's where Mac's got to step it up significantly if he's going to be the guy IMO.

 

[cover2]

Any insight into what advantages there may be in the Offensive Coordinator coaching from the sidelines as opposed to up in the booth? Nussmeier is one of the few that do it that way. Kiffin also walks the sideline but most OC's are upstairs for (I assume) a better vantage point? It's not like the NFL where they are going over pictures of formations/plays with the QB during defensive series.

I have more patience with someone who does it differently if they actually had success doing it differently. I was hopeful when Nussmeier was hired but his performance at UF coupled with his resume really does not inspire much confidence at this stage.

That being said, I continue to maintain that it's all about the QB. If and when the Gators put a guy behind center who can throw, read coverages and move around in the pocket, even a little bit, they will show offensive improvement. A playmaker at the position would camouflage some of the shortcomings of the offensive line.

The last part is a huge part, 65. As has been mentioned, we haven't had a guy that was a difference-maker in 8 years or so taking snaps, and it shows in how well we've played overall in that span. Of course, if you put Appleby behind Bama's OL and give him a couple of great backs, he probably looks a lot better than last Saturday! But we don't have the supporting personnel to tear through a defense with a very average, game-manager type QB.

As for Nuss as the OC on the sidelines, it can be done well that way (SOS was a prime example), but you've got to have a guy you trust to give you coverages and fronts lightening quick and catalog them with what we see from the D in the formations we show. Most guys prefer to be up high where they can see the field and make the call to an assistant. These days it usually has to be quick enough if you run the hurry-up to make a follow-up audible call from the box as well. I think it's safe to say that Nuss is struggling on the sidelines. Seems like we lock into a play and rarely audible to a better play when it looks to be defensed well pre-snap. We've had moments when things looked good, the first drive against F$U the other evening for example, but then we'll go vanilla or get wild and throw every first down and run for sure on second for a good spell. Not a lot of positive flow with the calls nor do there seem to be adjustments made when the other team is on to what we are doing. Either processing problems by Nuss or false confidence that we can just line up and "do what we do" to whoever we are playing and success is expected. Been doing this for a while with consistent results :(. Regardless, Mac, again, is the HC and the guy who ultimately signs off on what we do in the planning and calling phases and we are pretty limp against better teams unfortunately.

 

[Rick Schulz]

This is my first post and I copied this to post. I have been a Gator since 1966 when I attended my first game at 5 years old. I have seen the tremendous ups (sec championships, Nation titles, and games that make your so happy you can walk on air). I also witnessed first hand Fourth and Dumb, Run Lindsay Run, the choak at doak, Swindle in the swamp etc.

I am a former Ranger and a realist. The true question to me isn't whether or not McElwain can design an offense to win (he has done it in the SEC) .The better question is...can he recruit the athletes to do it.

There have been 3 issues that have handicapped this offense and Mac is fixing all of them.

The first and most important issue is the quarterback position. Mac inherited Treon and PED. I don't care how good of a coach you are, you're not beating the top teams with Treon under center. You can't coach height and ability.

A poster on another thread stated that other teams were doing fine with freshmen quarterbacks. Alabama is certainly doing fine with a freshman. Of course, that freshman was rated the 3rd best dual threat QB in the nation and has 5 star talent all around him. Florida State has been up and down with their redshirt freshman (he sat on the bench last year and learned the playbook) who was rated the 3rd best pro style QB in the nation and 5 star talent all around him. Those are the only two positive examples I can think of.

Georgia, South Carolina and Ole Miss have not fared well at all with their freshman QB's.

McElwain began addressing this situation as soon as he arrived. He found two transfers to come play this season. He also recruited two very talented freshmen for next season. He already has one of the top ranked QB's in the nation coming in next year. In addition, he has the 4th ranked QB in the 2018 class ready to sign.

The second issue is the youth and inexperience of our players. Muschamp did not recruit well on the offensive side of the ball. When Mac arrived he had 6 OL, 1 RB, no WR's with ability and Treon. Mac had 2 months to put together his first recruiting class and he has had one class since then.

The depth chart against FSU featured 4 of 5 starting OL that were freshmen or sophomores, 2 of 3 starting WR's were freshmen or sophomores, the starting TE was a sophomore, the starting RB was a sophomore and the QB was the 2nd string transfer in his first season at UF. Brandon Powell and David Sharpe were the only two Muschamp recruits that started on offense. That clearly illustrates the extent to which McElwain has been handcuffed by the quality of existing personnel when he arrived.

The Gators started 13 underclassmen against the Seminoles. You can't coach experience.

The third and final issue is the recruiting. When Spurrier arrived in 1990 he inherited Shane Matthews, Errict Rhett, Ernie Mills, Harrison Houston, Aubrey Hill and a line that had been blocking for Emmitt for the last three years. Spurrier has always been very open about the fact that he inherited a lot of talent.

When Meyer arrived he inherited Chris Leak, DeShawn Wynn, Chad Jackson, Andre Caldwell, Dallas Baker and an experienced OL.

When McElwain arrived the Gators offense was a national laughingstock. There were videos of our players blocking each other on the internet and we had just lost to Georgia Southern despite the fact that they never completed a pass. No talented players wanted to jump into the dumpster fire that was the Gators offense. Seniors in high school had few memories of any Gators offense other than Muschamp's version.

Despite this disadvantage McElwain has brought in a lot of talented players. Once he gets a QB and players can see his full offense recruiting will solve itself.

The common thread with all three of these issues is that they simply can't be solved overnight.

You don't buy a new car because you ran out of gas and you shouldn't buy a new computer because you have a virus.

Mac is solving the problems. If we had a QB this season no one would be complaining right now. Mac has brought in young talent everywhere else on the offense. The receivers are running open. Once we have the right QB in place everyone will suddenly be happy.

Chris Peterson was 8-6 and 7-6 in his first 2 seasons at Washington. When he arrived in 2014 he inherited 2 sophomore QBs and 2 freshman QBs. He started a sophomore and lost a lot of games. In 2015 he went with freshman QB Browning and lost a lot of games. In 2016 he started Browning again and with a year of experience under his belt Browning is tearing it up.

The fans wanted to fire Peterson in 2015 because they had a great defense and a horrible offense. Peterson didn't forget how to coach, he just needed a QB.

Again, Mac is fixing the problems.

 

[gators4224]

This is my first post and I copied this to post. I have been a Gator since 1966 when I attended my first game at 5 years old. I have seen the tremendous ups (sec championships, Nation titles, and games that make your so happy you can walk on air). I also witnessed first hand Fourth and Dumb, Run Lindsay Run, the choak at doak, Swindle in the swamp etc.

I agree that Mac deserves more leeway, and he should get two more years with HIS QB,, but if the offense still is bad at that point and we're still losing to FSU ( very real possibility) it might be time for him to go. Also mac had more than what your saying on offense coming in. Fulwood and worton come to mind. They have potential yet have simply not been utilized you can't teach fulwood's frame he's a mismatch nightmare yet we never use him. Also we had another rb who played well in the bowl game adam lane yet mac kicked him off. Also treon was not good, so why not try to put in jacob guy who at least has the frame of a QB that fits mac's pro style? bc it is obvious mac doesn't use many running plays for his QB