MLB Hall of Fame

[oxrageous]

I don't know why you feel the need to be so condescending with your posts.

Is this your first day? I thought that was the way it was supposed to be done. It ain't personal, Spur.

Did Rose cornhole you mom or something?

That's awfully condescending, sir!

I'm sure there are plenty in the HOF that aren't squeaky clean. Corked or not that dude was one of the greatest to ever play the game and deserves to be in and not after he is dead.

He's the hit king, of course he's one of the best ever. Can you tell me specifically why he should be given an exception to the established gambling rule?

Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro and others are dealing with the consequences of the steroid era, all of them shut out despite incredible on-field credentials. Why shouldn't Rose have to accept those same consequences?

 

[Joegator96]

Is this your first day? I thought that was the way it was supposed to be done. It ain't personal, Spur.


That's awfully condescending, sir!


He's the hit king, of course he's one of the best ever. Can you tell me specifically why he should be given an exception to the established gambling rule?

Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro and others are dealing with the consequences of the steroid era, all of them shut out despite incredible on-field credentials. Why shouldn't Rose have to accept those same consequences?

Well the circumstances are very different. The players who are snubbed due to performance enhancing drugs did so while they were active players. That is very different than Rose betting on baseball after retirement as an active player. Granted betting on baseball as the manager of a team is as shady as it can get IMO and he deserved sanctions which he received by being banned from any role with MLB. That said there are no allegations he bet on baseball while playing, or at least not that I am not aware. Paul Hornung and Alex Karras were suspended for a year in their prime for gambling, not sure it was on football. Both are in the NFL HOF for their performance on the field regardless of their obsessions off the field.

That is my distinction. I'll share my thoughts on the BS of keeping Clemens, Bonds and A-Rod out of the Hall later.

 

[oxrageous]

Well the circumstances are very different. The players who are snubbed due to performance enhancing drugs did so while they were active players. That is very different than Rose betting on baseball after retirement as an active player. Granted betting on baseball as the manager of a team is as shady as it can get IMO and he deserved sanctions which he received by being banned from any role with MLB. That said there are no allegations he bet on baseball while playing, or at least not that I am not aware. Paul Hornung and Alex Karras were suspended for a year in their prime for gambling, not sure it was on football. Both are in the NFL HOF for their performance on the field regardless of their obsessions off the field.

That is my distinction. I'll share my thoughts on the BS of keeping Clemens, Bonds and A-Rod out of the Hall later.

Are you taking Rose's word that he only bet as a manager, and only on his own team to win? The guy lies, and I think he was betting far before his playing days ended.

 

[Joegator96]

Are you taking Rose's word that he only bet as a manager, and only on his own team to win? The guy lies, and I think he was betting far before his playing days ended.

So do I. However, the accusation nor the proof of him betting on baseball while an active player was never even challenged if memory serves me correctly. So, I think my point has some validity.

His HOF credentials as a player are unchallenged. He is being denied entry because he is an non repentant *******. In today's world that makes him a valid candidate for POTUS or congress. We aren't going to talk about blatant lies as a disqualifier are we?????

 

[oxrageous]

He is being denied entry because he is an non repentant *******.

Actually, he's still being denied entry because he bet on baseball.

 

[Joegator96]

Actually, he's still being denied entry because he bet on baseball.

OK, guess it's OK for pro football players to get elected to the HOF after betting on football while an active player but baseball is puritan! Right, seems reasonable.

 

[oxrageous]

OK, guess it's OK for pro football players to get elected to the HOF after betting on football while an active player but baseball is puritan! Right, seems reasonable.

Not sure who you're talking about but yes, football and baseball have different rules. In baseball, the standard was set in 1919 with the Black Sox. You're certainly old enough to remember that first hand.

 

[YLGator]

I don't know why you feel the need to be so condescending with your posts. Did Rose cornhole you mom or something? I'm sure there are plenty in the HOF that aren't squeaky clean. Corked or not that dude was one of the greatest to ever play the game and deserves to be in and not after he is dead.

He voluntarily agreed to a lifetime ban in return for MLB to end its investigation of his gambling activities. Who knows what would have been uncovered had the investigation continued, but its clear Rose didn't want the world to know. Ban ends when he dies, not a day before. That's what the man agreed to.

 

[Joegator96]

Not sure who you're talking about but yes, football and baseball have different rules. In baseball, the standard was set in 1919 with the Black Sox. You're certainly old enough to remember that first hand.

No but my grandfather was. Yes, Rose took a deal and accepted an indefinite suspension in 1989. The HOF officers in 1991 passed a rule banning any player who was suspended from appearing on the ballet, either dead or alive. So to say Rose knew and agreed when he signed the suspension agreement in 1989 that he would not be eligible to make the HOF is factually incorrect as it was not a part of the agreement.

 

[Jack o' Diamonds]

who was suspended from appearing on the ballet,

I didn't even know he could dance in a ballet....;)

 

[Joegator96]

I didn't even know he could dance in a ballet....;)

He's a talented guy! Sings, dances, does the two step,

 

[78]

I know for a fact no one betted or took performance-enhancing substances prior to 1940. Well, except Babe Ruth. He injected sheep testicles in his left leg.

 

[Gator By Marriage]

I know for a fact no one betted or took performance-enhancing substances prior to 1940. Well, except Babe Ruth. He injected sheep testicles in his left leg.

"Betted"? Really? I thought you attended an elite university.

 

[Spurdog98]

Is this your first day? I thought that was the way it was supposed to be done. It ain't personal, Spur.


That's awfully condescending, sir!


He's the hit king, of course he's one of the best ever. Can you tell me specifically why he should be given an exception to the established gambling rule?

Bonds, Clemens, Palmeiro and others are dealing with the consequences of the steroid era, all of them shut out despite incredible on-field credentials. Why shouldn't Rose have to accept those same consequences?

But they are on the ballot Ox. Rose can't even be put on the ballot.

 

[Double Gator Dad]

Banned in 1991, started testing in 2003.

He never bet on the Reds to lose and no evidence that he ever bet period other than his own admission.

That’s not what Faye Vincent suggested back in the day. Just repeating what I heard the then commissioner say, I certainly have no idea.

 

[Double Gator Dad]

I could care less if they let Bonds and Clemens in. There are plenty of steroid users already in, just not publicly named. My bigger issue is that they are now saying steroids were bad, but didn't let guys in that were clean because they didn't have steroid numbers. Dale Murphy his 398 home runs clean and had everything else. If he had hit 400 he would have been automatic, but was punished because he didn't have steroid numbers. Now they are trying to say steroids matter. I'm sure there are others that were borderline and didn't get in, but if criteria were not based on steroid era numbers would have been in.

Schilling was punished for being a conservative.

Exactly.

You can supplement your performance and eventually get in and I believe that one can bet on baseball while in the game and eventually get in.

But DO NOT commit the sin of conservatism or be banned for life. I am sure this clause is in the rule book. If not it will be shortly.

 

[Double Gator Dad]

I don't understand the difference between Bonds and Gaylord Perry except that one is in the Hall of Fame and one is not. If cheating (using a performance-enhancing substance) is supposed to prohibit induction into the Hall how is Perry a member? He is actually celebrated for the way in which he fooled everyone for decades.

Early in his career, he was about to be sent back to the minors when he made the choice to break the rules. That decision led to a long and successful stint as a big-league pitcher and resulted in a place in the Hall. Which is supposed to be closed to cheaters. There is no way he was a Hall of Fame-caliber pitcher with a dry baseball in his hand.

Perhaps I am missing the difference in the two players but it seems like hypocrisy (or at least inconsistency) on the part of voters.

Good luck trying to reconcile the MLB with logic and reason, you will drive yourself crazy.

Just for fun try this one out.
How do you compare the records of pitchers before and after the mound height was reduced?

We won’t even get into how you reconcile a home run hitter for Colorado versus a team somewhere closer to sea level?

Like no other sport, baseball obsesses over numbers. Like no other sport every field of play is different in several ways.

Imagine football fields being different dimensions from city to city or NBA basket heights being arbitrary around the league.

Good luck.

 

[Gatordiddy]

Like no other sport, baseball obsesses over numbers

Elias Sports Bureau comes to mind... the granularity of the statistics is mind blowing.

I happen to sit by Harry Kalas one night at a hotel bar -(he was the Phillies play by play guy and an incredible voice (look up what he's done for the NFL and commercials).
He and his color guy were obsessing over some relief pitchers and the number of games they appeared in, innings pitched, pitch count, batters faced, ERA, balls vs. strikes, etc, etc. It was such a microcosm type of discussion.

 

[Spurdog98]

That’s not what Faye Vincent suggested back in the day. Just repeating what I heard the then commissioner say, I certainly have no idea.

"John Dowd took off to Cincinnati to investigate. He called me and said, ‘Fay, I’ve only been here three days and the evidence is overwhelming that he bet on baseball.' We were shocked. Rose was always in debt, borrowed money from the mob and was mobbed up, which was very scary. He was very vulnerable and there’s no telling what could have happened. They could have really squeezed him. The evidence was overwhelming and Rose accepted without a hearing that he be permanently ineligible with the right to apply for reinstatement. Eight days later, Bart Giamatti died of a massive heart attack and I took over as commissioner. I’m sure the Rose investigation helped play a role in Bart’s death with all the stress around that.

This is more about honoring Giamatti than Rose betting on baseball IMO.

 

[78]

"Betted"? Really? I thought you attended an elite university.

Really. I’ll bet you didn’t realize it is an acceptable past tense of bet. I won’t bother to ask which school you attended.