Spring ball: Spring Scrimmage on Saturday

[Swamp Donkey]

Improvement in this area requires talent and commitment.

There are guys who play wide receiver and then there are wide receivers.

Guys who play wide receiver are able to catch balls thrown at their hands while they're mostly facing their QB. This is not difficult.

Wide receivers are able to catch balls thrown over their shoulders while their QB can read the name on the back of their jersey. That's a different skill and a lot harder to learn.

There are times for everything. If you have Grantham on the other sideline with his DBs lined up 13 yards deep on 3rd & 5, then run buttons all day. Or simple WR screens. Low risk and move the chains.

SOS ran screens, too, but he did it when the defense dropped back into a 4 high shell hoping to stop the bleeding. Everything works and was designed to exploit some aspect of a defense.

However screens and buttons are high risk low reward when a defense is up tight expecting run and the DBs are pressing tight also. Not only will the dink game be ineffective as we saw last year but a slight error is a pick 6.

 

[MJMGator]

I was going to say Franks.

Many QB uses that motion for the longbombs. It may not be a problem if you only use it for that.

It’s called a wind up.

 

[wrpgator]

I was going to say Franks.

Many QB uses that motion for the longbombs. It may not be a problem if you only use it for that.

To his credit, Franks did have his elbow properly elevated when shushing the hometown fans.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

To his credit, Franks did have his elbow properly elevated when shushing the hometown fans.

 

[wrpgator]

There are times for everything. If you have Grantham on the other sideline with his DBs lined up 13 yards deep on 3rd & 5, then run buttons all day. Or simple WR screens. Low risk and move the chains.

SOS ran screens, too, but he did it when the defense dropped back into a 4 high shell hoping to stop the bleeding. Everything works and was designed to exploit some aspect of a defense.

However screens and buttons are high risk low reward when a defense is up tight expecting run and the DBs are pressing tight also. Not only will the dink game be ineffective as we saw last year but a slight error is a pick 6.

Spurrier called the opponent’s defensive sets:
Hitch +3
Hitch +4
Hitch + 4
Hitch & Go— defender cheats up & bites, TD.

 

[Theologator]

Didn't Tebow do something similar ?

As I recall, Tebow released from his ear. But he didn’t carry the ball or start his motion low like that. That makes it easier for rushers to slap the ball out of your hand. They should be able to coach him out of that.

Tebow was a very effective passer. I think he was state record-setting in HS and had very good stats at UF. His NFL issues were more about reading defenses and pocket passing. He was good outside the pocket but not in it.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Spurrier called the opponent’s defensive sets:
Hitch +3
Hitch +4
Hitch + 4
Hitch & Go— defender cheats up & bites, TD.

Yeah if youve never seen SOS playbook, it is worth the time. Google it and there are a few pdfs out there. Then compare it to Meyer/Mullen, McElwain at Alabama etc.

There are reads for Mullen, obviously as an option offense, but the built in reads for SOS are amazing. Basically the WR and QB are expected to know based on what the defense does how to change the routes and pass timing. SOS could call the same play 8 times in a row and you might well see 4-6 different route combos. Im not sure kids are polished enough to do something like that now. So many are sandlot players with great athleticism and little discipline.

I know I've said all this before but while in law school I would walk right beside the practice field virtually every day. It was nothing to walk past those guys out there running routes on the way to school and see them doing the same thing at the end of the day. Tens of thousands of reps, no doubt, out there in the sun, all spring and summer long.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

As I recall, Tebow released from his ear. But he didn’t carry the ball or start his motion low like that.

Yeah I was going to say that too. Obviously if you're running ball fakes before the pass you're going to have the ball lower to sell the fake.

I think Spurrier like his quarterbacks to have their ball up by their ear hole with both hands on it until they threw. They all looked a lot alike, except that we're full kind of push the ball a bit kind of shotputting ish. But mechanically up by the ear is not not a particularly strong position so I have seen people holding it a little lower these days mostly.

I'm no quarterback coach and I don't play one on TV. However I can see the gross problems like holding it weirdly, winding up, poor footwork especially happy feet (Manning in college), changing arm angles, stuff like that.

 

[wrpgator]

Yeah if youve never seen SOS playbook, it is worth the time. Google it and there are a few pdfs out there. Then compare it to Meyer/Mullen, McElwain at Alabama etc.

There are reads for Mullen, obviously as an option offense, but the built in reads for SOS are amazing. Basically the WR and QB are expected to know based on what the defense does how to change the routes and pass timing. SOS could call the same play 8 times in a row and you might well see 4-6 different route combos. Im not sure kids are polished enough to do something like that now. So many are sandlot players with great athleticism and little discipline.

I know I've said all this before but while in law school I would walk right beside the practice field virtually every day. It was nothing to walk past those guys out there running routes on the way to school and see them doing the same thing at the end of the day. Tens of thousands of reps, no doubt, out there in the sun, all spring and summer long.

I didn’t know they were out there. I just remember SOS dinging FSUgly that way in the 97 game, and other similar sequences.

 

[AlexDaGator]

That's what made Spurrier's passing game. It was "the option" but in the passing game. The WR started his route and had options based on what the defense did. They had an idea based on pre-snap reads, but they would make adjustments after the snap, like a read-option but in the secondary.

Success was incumbent on the QB and the WR making the same read and choosing the same option. Pull up old videos of the fun n gun. Notice how wide open the receivers are. Often the DB's aren't even in the frame. Announcers might say it was a busted coverage, but it wasn't. It was the perfect play against the defense being run.

If you had a QB and WRs on the same page (like Grossman to Gaffney and Caldwell, or Weurffel to Ike and Riedel) the only way to defend it was to get to the QB before he could throw it. If the OL gave the QB time, there would always be a WR running to the right spot.


Alex.

 

[LaylaGator]

That's what made Spurrier's passing game. It was "the option" but in the passing game. The WR started his route and had options based on what the defense did. They had an idea based on pre-snap reads, but they would make adjustments after the snap, like a read-option but in the secondary.

Success was incumbent on the QB and the WR making the same read and choosing the same option. Pull up old videos of the fun n gun. Notice how wide open the receivers are. Often the DB's aren't even in the frame. Announcers might say it was a busted coverage, but it wasn't. It was the perfect play against the defense being run.

If you had a QB and WRs on the same page (like Grossman to Gaffney and Caldwell or Weurffel to Ike and Riedel) the only way to defend it was to get to the QB before he could throw it. If the OL gave the QB time, there would always be a WR running to the right spot.


Alex.

You just brought a tear to my eye.

 

[wrpgator]

That's what made Spurrier's passing game. It was "the option" but in the passing game. The WR started his route and had options based on what the defense did. They had an idea based on pre-snap reads, but they would make adjustments after the snap, like a read-option but in the secondary.

Success was incumbent on the QB and the WR making the same read and choosing the same option. Pull up old videos of the fun n gun. Notice how wide open the receivers are. Often the DB's aren't even in the frame. Announcers might say it was a busted coverage, but it wasn't. It was the perfect play against the defense being run.

If you had a QB and WRs on the same page (like Grossman to Gaffney and Caldwell or Weurffel to Ike and Riedel) the only way to defend it was to get to the QB before he could throw it. If the OL gave the QB time, there would always be a WR running to the right spot.


Alex.

And that’s why Wuerffel got clobbered in the pocket after releasing the ball—letting those routes develop. Spurrier insisted on his QBs having personal courage. If they pull the ball down and scramble at the first sign of trouble, you’re not going to fit in The Ole Ball Coach system.

 

[jdh5484]

And that’s why Wuerffel got clobbered in the pocket after releasing the ball—letting those routes develop. Spurrier insisted on his QBs having personal courage. If they pull the ball down and scramble at the first sign of trouble, you’re not going to fit in The Ole Ball Coach system.

Spurrier also HATED putting the QB in shotgun.

 

[wrpgator]

Spurrier also HATED putting the QB in shotgun.

Once he reconciled to use it, he sure had a lot of fun with it. This is a good article about the Fun n Gun made better since all illustrative clips are from Sugar Bowl NC thrashing of FSUgly.

Steve Spurrier Brought The Fun To The SEC

Spurrier's Fun N Gun looks exactly like a modern offense

theoutsidezone.substack.com

 

[jdh5484]

Once he reconciled to use it, he sure had a lot of fun with it. This is a good article about the Fun n Gun made better since all illustrative clips are from Sugar Bowl NC thrashing of FSUgly.

Steve Spurrier Brought The Fun To The SEC

Spurrier's Fun N Gun looks exactly like a modern offense

theoutsidezone.substack.com

Almost feel sorry for FSUs defense.

Almost.

We would have won the first time against them if Spurrier would have put Danny in the gun. Man... he got pummeled that entire game.

 

[wrpgator]

Almost feel sorry for FSUs defense.

Almost.

We would have won the first time against them if Spurrier would have put Danny in the gun. Man... he got pummeled that entire game.

A lot of cheap shots / late hits / helmet-to-helmet hits / diving at his knees, etc. They were coached to try to cripple Danny. Fuchs FSU. It’s the most illegitimate entity in all of college football.

 

[soflagator]

Almost feel sorry for FSUs defense.

Almost.

We would have won the first time against them if Spurrier would have put Danny in the gun. Man... he got pummeled that entire game.

In addition to being dirty, they followed the Nebraska blueprint from earlier that year. And actually, it was Arkansas a few weeks prior that provided the blueprint for them. It’s often overlooked because of the win and margin of victory, but DW was absolutely destroyed in that 95 SEC championship game. We were at that game and very low behind the bench. He looked like he’d been in a boxing match rather than a football game.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Once he reconciled to use it, he sure had a lot of fun with it. This is a good article about the Fun n Gun made better since all illustrative clips are from Sugar Bowl NC thrashing of FSUgly.

Steve Spurrier Brought The Fun To The SEC

Spurrier's Fun N Gun looks exactly like a modern offense

theoutsidezone.substack.com

After he damn near killed Danny.

 

[Sec14Gator]

Yeah I was going to say that too. Obviously if you're running ball fakes before the pass you're going to have the ball lower to sell the fake.

I think Spurrier like his quarterbacks to have their ball up by their ear hole with both hands on it until they threw. They all looked a lot alike, except that we're full kind of push the ball a bit kind of shotputting ish. But mechanically up by the ear is not not a particularly strong position so I have seen people holding it a little lower these days mostly.

I'm no quarterback coach and I don't play one on TV. However I can see the gross problems like holding it weirdly, winding up, poor footwork especially happy feet (Manning in college), changing arm angles, stuff like that.

Other than Chris Leak, I haven't seen anyone working with QBs teaching with the ear hole mechanics any more (and Leak's guys have obvious shot-put mechanics with little power or spin. It just restricts the body rotation too much. Nearly every NFL guy has adjusted too (including Brady). Lagway is awkward looking at times (getting better each season though) and there is a reason his live tape looks so different from routes on air, or that he struggled in 7v7. But, guys like that often struggle more in a pocket statute situation compare to moving and being athletic. The newer teaching mechanics are, in ways, easier to adapt to than some older school teachings. I think Tim would have picked this up more than what UF/Mullen were trying to do in 2007.

One the positives of the videos I've seen is that Lagway's posture looks so much more naturally athletic in the pocket. I wonder if he really is doing the full baseball style belt-shoulder-throw mechanics or that pic is from a weird angle. But, all the angles we see are so far away.

 

[Sec14Gator]

Spurrier also HATED putting the QB in shotgun.

Some of this was also the read/play development piece. The timing in the gun changes, which seems to have bother SOS more than the concept of the snap difference. Until Nebraska, and then the nulls, forced his hand.