The offense is a mess and it will take time to recover

[ufgator812]

I don't disagree, but I also think that the WRs have to shoulder some of the responsibility. None of them should be shocked that they're s'posed to catch the ball.

Also, look at WR coaching over WM's tenure. I know that goes back to WM, but he's had some pretty tough breaks in that area too. Look at Hill. Look at Joker. Hill looked like a good hire from the perspective of recruiting south Florida, being a former UF receiver, and experience in major D1 coaching. Joker was brought in from being a HC of an SEC school to being a WR coach. Perhaps you could say that WM should have avoided Hill because of the dumpster fire he was leaving, but I doubt anyone could say that Joker was a danger to commit a big recruiting violation. I maintain that some of our current situation is just "bad luck."

So there it is. A real life Muschamp apologist.

 

[soflagator]

At the beginning of the season the offense should have had confidence and guys were dropping balls. They did it in the Alabama game, the Tenn game and the LSU game. You can only do so much to coach guys... at some point the talent has to show up. I do agree that coaching is part of this, but I also think we missed on a lot of talent.

How many NFL players do you think we have on our roster? How many receivers specifically? The only one I can think of is DRob... maybe Debose as a return guy.

I currently don't see Jones or Taylor as NFL guys... maybe Garcia on the OL?

You think the players needed a loss or 2 to suddenly stop buying in? They lost to GSU and had lost 9 of the last 13 games. People don't want to think this way, which is fine. But this experiment has been a failure since 2011. We've all wanted the best. But it was never functional and the players realize that.

As for the NFL, I'm not great at judging OL so I'll leave that to someone else. But Jones and KT could both be league players. I believe Fullwood would/will be great with the right coaching. And then Robinson. You're rarely going to have 2 deep NFL talent. There's a reason why guys are second string. The names mentioned above are winning us a NC by themselves. But neither were Cornelius, Baker, Jackson and Caldwell in '04 and '05. What they could do, however, is lay the groundwork for a team that could.

 

[t-gator]

I'll be more willing to have this discussion once we have our coach. But how can Franklin step in at freaking Vanderbilt and start winning wich I've mentioned before. And we don't lack athletes

 

[soflagator]

I don't disagree, but I also think that the WRs have to shoulder some of the responsibility. None of them should be shocked that they're s'posed to catch the ball.

Also, look at WR coaching over WM's tenure. I know that goes back to WM, but he's had some pretty tough breaks in that area too. Look at Hill. Look at Joker. Hill looked like a good hire from the perspective of recruiting south Florida, being a former UF receiver, and experience in major D1 coaching. Joker was brought in from being a HC of an SEC school to being a WR coach. Perhaps you could say that WM should have avoided Hill because of the dumpster fire he was leaving, but I doubt anyone could say that Joker was a danger to commit a big recruiting violation. I maintain that some of our current situation is just "bad luck."

The canes were glad to see Hill go. I never heard anyone say otherwise. His WRs seemingly regresssd each season. It was never a good hire other than the fact that it was a former Gator. Phillips looked good.

I don't call it bad luck as much as I call it not having a clear, logical vision. His whole mantra sounded more like a drunk fan who happened to be watching the Ala/Lsu game and said "we need to be more like those guys". The talent in his backyard never supported the move, and we didn't currently have the pieces to run it. Moves like Weis, Pease and Hill only furthered the argument that he had no real clue what he was doing, nor had he envisioned anything that was long-term. It was window dressing and name dropping without any real direction or chemistry. And the results we got were as empty as the hires themselves.

All that said, when average fans can see this, the blame falls that much more on the AD who heard the plan and endorsed it.

 

[VulcanAlex]

Robinson is definitely talented, but Fulwood cannot consistently catch the ball and Bailey can't see the field for whatever reason. We lost out on other WRs like Algachor and the guy who went to Maryland. We don't have top talent... we have more drops than any other team in the SEC except A&M who throws a ton more than we do.

The ability to catch is not coaching... we have missed on almost all our offensive recruits.

In my opinion the ability to catch is mental more than physical. When you are worried about your route, depth, or anything else your catches are effected. In addition Jeff does not throw that great of a ball in accuracy or delivery. I also thought the poor decision for a TD would have been and int if Jeff did it. I think that the team is once again fractured and a lack of leadership is the fault. Coaches can only lead so much, players must do this.

 

[GatorJB]

QB is the biggest issue. A good QB can make an offense better, and a bad QB can make an offense worse. Remember all the intangibles that made Tebow so great? Driskel has none of those. I'd rather play a true freshman that doesn't know the protections but has a knack for making plays and leading scoring drives than a 4th year QB that knows the protections, and yet has far more turnovers than scoring drives.

Physically every offensive starter is capable of playing well. Their mistakes are mostly mental. Westbrook admitted that his drop against LSU was a mental error because he didn't focus on securing the catch. The mental mistakes are fueled from poor leadership from both the QB and the head coach. Yes, if Treon starts he will make freshmam errors, but if he can inspire the players around him, which he has done a few times this year, then the offense will improve.

When asked what did he learn from last year, Muschamp relplied, "Don't lose your starting QB." Well this lesson has ironically ruined the offense and season this year. Do I think this offense would be great if Harris were the starter? No, I don't, but I do think the offense would be at least average, which is far better than where it is with Driskel Starting, and an average offense would have been good enough to compete for the East this year.

 

[EuroGator]

So there it is. A real life Muschamp apologist.

I am neither ashamed nor secretive about looking at Will Muschamp's tenure in a context that includes the situation he inherited, the mistakes he made, his attitudinal or philosophical weaknesses, and the elements that were beyond his control. It's trendy right now to blame him with everything, but that doesn't sway me.

 

[EuroGator]

I don't call it bad luck as much as I call it not having a clear, logical vision. His whole mantra sounded more like a drunk fan who happened to be watching the Ala/Lsu game and said "we need to be more like those guys".

I disagree that he didn't have a clear, logical vision. I think his vision was to be more like ALA/LSU and if he ever had an offense that came close, we would have been very successful. However...

The talent in his backyard never supported the move, and we didn't currently have the pieces to run it. Moves like Weis, Pease and Hill...

and Philips didn't help him achieve his vision, instead costing him some valuable recruiting battles on the offensive side of the ball along with inconsistency among the O-coaches. He also bet on Driskel who has all of the measurables that you could ask for, and (according to him) whom he was told by NFL guys could be great. I don't want to miss that players play the game and coaches have to trust that they'll either develop or the team will have depth at the position. WM was never able to develop his QB or the depth at QB.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[Albert]

If anyone believes there is truly elite talent at any position on the offensive side of the ball, I'd love to hear exactly who and why. Taylor can't block, Jones is a bit slow, DRob quits on half or more of his routes, and no one on the the Oline reminds you of anyone named Pouncey. The balance of receivers couldn't catch Ebola on a Liberian mission trip. And even if Driskel was all world- and we know he isn't- it wouldn't matter much IMO. Our young QBs show some promise, but who is truly dominating at their position? No One

 

[t-gator]

If anyone believes there is truly elite talent at any position on the offensive side of the ball, I'd love to hear exactly who and why. Taylor can't block, Jones is a bit slow, DRob quits on half or more of his routes, and no one on the the Oline reminds you of anyone named Pouncey. The balance of receivers couldn't catch Ebola on a Liberian mission trip. And even if Driskel was all world- and we know he isn't- it wouldn't matter much IMO. Our young QBs show some promise, but who is truly dominating at their position? No One

How much elite talent did vandy have before Franklin? How much elite talent did auburn have when they only won 3 games then turned around to win the sec? It's hard to tell how much talent when they aren't being put in a good situation to succeed.

 

[oxrageous]

If anyone believes there is truly elite talent at any position on the offensive side of the ball, I'd love to hear exactly who and why. Taylor can't block, Jones is a bit slow, DRob quits on half or more of his routes, and no one on the the Oline reminds you of anyone named Pouncey. The balance of receivers couldn't catch Ebola on a Liberian mission trip. And even if Driskel was all world- and we know he isn't- it wouldn't matter much IMO. Our young QBs show some promise, but who is truly dominating at their position? No One

And yet, if Steve Spurrier was the coach next season they'd suddenly look like elite players, just like in 1990. Sofla has made this point and he's absolutely right.

It's coaching, coaching, coaching.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

I am neither ashamed nor secretive about looking at Will Muschamp's tenure in a context that includes the situation he inherited, the mistakes he made, his attitudinal or philosophical weaknesses, and the elements that were beyond his control. It's trendy right now to blame him with everything, but that doesn't sway me.

My God. What would it take for you to see Muschamp as a failure? How many more blowouts before you blame him? Please give me a number because apparently we are going to see it happen.

 

[QueenCityGator]

quote from dooley's podcast: "you would be better off putting matt jones at wildcat or punting on first down" than playing jeff driskel

looks like he is no longer a sunshine pumper

 

[ufgator812]

My God. What would it take for you to see Muschamp as a failure? How many more blowouts before you blame him? Please give me a number because apparently we are going to see it happen.

Unbelievable that guy.

 

[Albert]

And yet, if Steve Spurrier was the coach next season they'd suddenly look like elite players, just like in 1990. Sofla has made this point and he's absolutely right.

It's coaching, coaching, coaching.

Ox,
If Spurrier was here most of these players wouldn't be. I don't think this bunch of receivers has any Reidel or Jacques anywhere in them. You can't make chicken salad outta chicken sh!!!!t. Good coaching makes good players great, but Spurrier himself said that most talent is born. Muschamps evaluation of offensive talent is half of why we're in this putrid state IMO.

 

[ATXGator]

How is Spurrier doing with the talent at USC this year? You can't compare what Spurrier did in a vastly different environment to what a coach can do now. Auburn actually had the players to be successful because the guy who became the HC recruited all these guys as OC.

Muschamp is a failure... I'm not going to dispute that, but there is also a lack of leadership on the team.

I remember the annoucers saying that after Mizzou lost to UGA the senior who killed us brought the team together and got them refocused. What player is doing that for Florida?

Do you remember the Tebow speech in 2008? The team underachieved against Ole Miss. Tebow came out and said that he didn't do a good job and he took it upon himself to drive the team. Who is doing that now? Where are the leaders?

While most of this falls on Muschamp I do think some of it falls on the players who have to take some accountability and try to succeed. I don't want to hear this crap about them being mentally checked out and not believing. No player at this level wants to lose games. These guys are way to competitive or they wouldn't have made it this far.

Yes... Muschamp is a failure, but some of it falls on the players also.

 

[divits]

How is Spurrier doing with the talent at USC this year? You can't compare what Spurrier did in a vastly different environment to what a coach can do now. Auburn actually had the players to be successful because the guy who became the HC recruited all these guys as OC.

Muschamp is a failure... I'm not going to dispute that, but there is also a lack of leadership on the team.

I remember the annoucers saying that after Mizzou lost to UGA the senior who killed us brought the team together and got them refocused. What player is doing that for Florida?

Do you remember the Tebow speech in 2008? The team underachieved against Ole Miss. Tebow came out and said that he didn't do a good job and he took it upon himself to drive the team. Who is doing that now? Where are the leaders?

While most of this falls on Muschamp I do think some of it falls on the players who have to take some accountability and try to succeed. I don't want to hear this crap about them being mentally checked out and not believing. No player at this level wants to lose games. These guys are way to competitive or they wouldn't have made it this far.

Yes... Muschamp is a failure, but some of it falls on the players also.

Agree. If you don't have an inner self motivation and strong competitvness that drives you you shouldn't be playing football. A coach's job is to take your natural athletic ability, teach you some additional techniques, put together a good game plan and surround you with other self motivated and talented players like yourself. Muschamp has dropped the ball on his end and I think some of the players have literally and figuratively dropped the ball on their end.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Agree. If you don't have an inner self motivation and strong competitvness that drives you you shouldn't be playing football.

It's not all competitiveness. Some kids just don't have it. What are the odds of being a good college QB? 1 in a few millions?

JD is a perfect example. If he had decent coaches who could have realized early on that he simply didn't have the tools for one position, he could probably be making millions next year as a NFL TE like Reed and Ingram did.

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

JD is the biggest issue with the offense. The fact that the next two guys are true freshmen is a big failure in recruiting. The next biggest issue is the o line. Sure they are better in pass protection this year and Mizzou probably has the best front seven we've faced, but these guys can't run block worth a damn. Our deep stable of running backs looks mediocre because 100% of their yards come after contact. The interior of the o line just isn't that good. You really expect Trenton Brown to be able to get his pad level low enough to knock the guy in front of him backwards?

 

[soflagator]

I disagree that he didn't have a clear, logical vision. I think his vision was to be more like ALA/LSU and if he ever had an offense that came close, we would have been very successful. However...


and Philips didn't help him achieve his vision, instead costing him some valuable recruiting battles on the offensive side of the ball along with inconsistency among the O-coaches. He also bet on Driskel who has all of the measurables that you could ask for, and (according to him) whom he was told by NFL guys could be great. I don't want to miss that players play the game and coaches have to trust that they'll either develop or the team will have depth at the position. WM was never able to develop his QB or the depth at QB.

At least that's how I see it.

But again, that vision was flawed and not in tune with reality. The ingredients weren't there when he took the reigns, yet he adamantly stated that this was not a 4 year plan. In addition, neither Lsu or Alabama play as bland and close to the vest as we do. Perhaps they did in the '80s, but not at present. The tide have a mobile Qb that's running the ball and spreading things out. Lsu is the same. His vision was outdated, and really based around a general "we need to be a down hill running team" type of statement. And if it were so clear, you wouldn't completely switch things going into year 4, only to revert back to the old offense a few games in.

Tell me, if you hired a big name OC, with no geographical ties to the southeast or UF, and who'd spent most of his career in the NFL or as a head coach, would you give him sole control of several major recruiting battles. Diggs, Agholor, and Kent Taylor weren't just recruited by Weis. They were recruited basically by no one other than Weis. We lost 2 of those 3,and it was largely because of Weis' departure. Logic and common sense would tell you that he was a risk and that someone else should be developing a rapport with them. Sure Phillips made things worse. But the whole Weis debacle set us back tremendously as those would be the upperclassmen we'd be depending on right now. You have to be smart enough to see things before they happen. Muschamp, in typical fashion, did not and was reactional.