Truth Takes: 2023 Defensive Position Groups

GatorTruth133

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I was going to post this before going out for the weekend, but decided to save it for today. Also, in case things came out in the presser I could update ahead of time, but I might've missed something. I believe it is mostly updated. I enjoyed the discussion on the offense. Let's see how we feel about the defense. The offense and defense were originally part of the same post, but GatorChatter has length limits. Yes, I know I am long winded, add a lot of stuff that may or may not be important and TLDR. I try though, but can't help myself. :dunno:

DL/OLB- Better

Yes, I count the OLB, which is basically a stand-up defensive end in this scheme as part of the DL. Interesting fact, none of the 4 Jacks listed on the depth chart for last year’s Utah game remain on the Gators roster (don’t tell the guest Buddy Martin had on a week or two ago saying Powell-Ryland will probably start). Princely has moved over there and Pyburn has seen time there along with others.

The keyword for why this year’s DL will be better than last year’s is simple, depth. Yes, Gervon Dexter will be missed, and I’d prefer if Jalen Lee stayed instead of transferring to LSU. However, we gained multiple new pieces that will help the unit overall on to of the returners for year 2 along with the aggressive approach of new DC Austin Armstrong.

Watching Caleb Banks at the open practice made me feel like he is going to be a problem for opposing OL’s (and I hope its not just our OL) and Cam Jackson also has looked good. Add in second year guys like McClellan, Pyburn, Sapp and Lyons to go along with the others and the rotation should be better and that is before we get to some highly touted true freshmen like Kelby Collins, Will Norman, TJ Searcy and Kamran James. The lack of depth hurt the DL last year and in doing so, hurt our LB and secondary production as well. This year, I think this is the unit that will set the tone for the defense and will be better because of increased experience and increased depth.

LB-Same, could be better

There were times Miller, Burney, James, and Williams were solid last season and times when they weren’t. Williams might play more OLB this year, especially with the loss of Justus Boone forcing some movement along the DL. We replaced all of our attrition with Ohio State transfer Teradja Mitchell, Michigan transfer Deuce Spurlock, Houston transfer Mannie Nunnery, and brought in true freshman Jaden Robinson. Derek Wingo is also back in his second year in the system and the hope is this year he finally lives up to his recruiting hype.

I believe we will see jumps for James, Williams, and Wingo in year two. Nunnery was the highest rated LB of all of our current LB’s last season at 74.2. He was highly rated in coverage with 78.2. For reference, Shemar James would be second with a 62.6 rating. Granted, the competition is much higher for Nunnery now, but hopefully the transition to SEC play won’t be too much. Spurlock didn’t play much last year for Michigan (redshirted) and Mitchell played all of 1 defensive snap for the Buckeyes. I do have questions since in 2021 his PFF rating was 43.9 with a tackling rating of 47.7. I do believe that a change of scenery sometimes brings better play out of players, but like with George at tackle, I think there is something, including injury problems for Mitchell, that found a regular rotation guy with starting experience to fall out of favor with a coaching staff.

I’m not saying Miller or Burney set the world on fire by any means, but without knowing what we are for sure getting with the transfers and general youth all-around it is hard for me to say this group will be better than last year’s. I think the possibility for improvement is there, but it could also still have plenty of issues. That is why for now, I’m saying it is going to be about the same, but with the potential to be better.

CB/Star- Better

Returning Jason Marshall, Jalen Kimber, Devin Moore, Jaydon Hill, and Jadarrius Perkins is major for this team. Hill is moving to Star and Moore is returning from injury. Having Corey Raymond take over the whole secondary is a great step in this year’s defense along with moving to more press man coverage. It is no secret that we struggled in zone coverage a lot last year and part of that was pass rush issues and part of that is zone is not the player’s strengths. I do think that will improve, but the press coverage will increase these guy’s production. Press coverage creates smaller windows (in theory), which increases time QB has the ball, which gives pass rushers more time to get to the QB, more pressure equals more inaccurate throws, inaccurate throws in tighter windows will usually lead to higher pass defense efficiency and more interceptions.

I think the returning players will do well and that young guys coming in like Dijon Johnson and Sharif Denson can be brought along without (hopefully) being thrown into the fire.

Love this PFF quote about Marshall, “The sophomore only surrendered a 35.2 passer rating when targeted in press coverage over the last two seasons, eighth among Power Five corners. For comparison, spiking the ball every play nets a 39.6 passer rating.”

With an improved DL, more aggressive scheme, and more press man coverage, along with returning a ton of talent and experience, this group will be better.

Safety-Same, possibly better

This position group, like the LB’s is one where I have more questions than I’d like heading into the season. We lost starters Torrence and Dean, but return Miguel Mitchell, Dakota Mitchell, and probably the most experienced former highly recruited player Kamari Wilson. We brought in RJ Moten from Michigan and I have some of the same questions I have with Teradja Mitchell.

RJ Moten was rated at 64.8 last season at Michigan by PFF, which was lower than both Gators starters and his tackling rating was 45, for reference Trey Dean was the lowest of our three main safeties for the Gators at 66.8. Moten does bring plenty of experience and power 5 experience. The question is how much he will improve under the tutelage of Corey Raymond and in Austin Armstrong’s offense.

Kamari Wilson led the Gators safeties in tackling grad last season with an 85.3 rating. A second season and being under Corey Raymond directly could bring more out of him than we saw a true freshman last season. Although expecting a lot from a true freshman at safety in the SEC is a mixed bag anyway. Miguel Mitchell also will need to grow this season. True freshmen Bryce Thornton and Jordan Castell will probably be asked to contribute, and it is always a crapshoot with true freshmen safeties in the SEC.

With that said, last year was maddeningly inconsistent at the safety position. This year we could be at least at that maddeningly inconsistent with the potential to be better and provide greater consistency. The aggressive and improved defensive front can help make up for some safety issues by causing more havoc and putting more pressure on opposing QB’s. For now, I think the questions leave me with the same, possibly better output from the safety position.

Overall, the defense looks to be in a position to be improved from last season. The aggressiveness and depth up front may be able to mask some questions at other positions if they are not as improved. There is a chance that some players that have been questions will be strengths. If that is the case, this defense will support the offense much more than last season.
 

Gator By Marriage

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Nice write up @GatorTruth133 and hard to argue against any of your points. A lot of unknowns that probably won’t really be answered until after week 3, though I think we’ll know a lot by late next Thursday night.
 

aka

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TN G8tr

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The defense, personnel, and with Austin should be a much more improved and perhaps more aggressive unit that we've seen in many years. I am not expecting an all world defense but simple improvement. The talent that is developing and coming will help. If the D can get a 1/3 more 3 and outs than last year that alone would be much improved. They are going to have to get the ball back for the Offense. I have a feeling this defense is going to be a unit that will force some turnovers as well. Looking forward to seeing Armstrong's D.
 

Sec14Gator

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Thanks for kicking off another good discussion and sharing the PFF ratings.

Our DL depth is better, but I don't see a solid pass rusher amongst them. The depth should help a great deal against the run and I can't see us giving up 800 yards against LSU on counter this year in BR as we did with the undersized Grantham DL 2 years ago. But, the only strong area of improvement I see is at CB. Maybe that helps enough, but no matter how good your press coverage, if you can't get to the QB, everyone eventually gets open.

I think the LB's and Nickel/star coverage of RBs and TEs should be better this year.

Safety could be a train wreck and the reports that Moten hasn't shined are concerning. Maybe the Freshman surprise everyone, as they were not the top rated of our DB class (compared to JJ and DJ).

As I've mentioned in other threads, I don't think our safeties and lack of rush becomes an issue until TN, and then only if Milton can take advantage of it. Until I see him drastically improved, I will have my doubts.
 

deuce

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I think/hope we will surprise many with a much improved pass rush. If so, our LB and DB/S play will be much better than expected. Over-all, I'm feeling our defense will set the table for our questionable Offense to find it's identity.
 

Lucius

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Of the total roster, 46 of the scholarship players (well over half) are new to the team. The roster flip has been epic and this is a completely different team.

Bama had a huge turnaround from 2007-2008 going from 7-6 with a loss to UL-Monroe to 11-2 with a loss to UF in the SEC Championship game.

Georgia in 2016-2017 went from 8-5 to 12-2 with a loss to Bama in the National Championship.

Expecting such a massive jump in year 2 may be a bit much, but 8-9 wins is completely achievable.

When the new 247 talent composite comes out, UF should be jumping from #14 in 2022 to #10-11 in 2023. Next year should see a similar jump with the new class coming in.

The future is brighter than many believe and I really look forward to how the team performs on the field this year.
 

Theologator

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Thanks again @GatorTruth133

Looks like 2 P5 transfers are key questions: Mitchell & Moten. Those guys, like Cox, Shorter & Grimes, don’t tend to suddenly blossom as stars in their new home. But they do tend to be reasonably solid and contribute some.

It’s the G6 who have grown or emerged that have potential to prove they can do it at the next level in SEC play: Banks, Jackson & Nunnery. A 3-star who grew 6” and added 70lbs yet can still move is a real find.

Those guys plus the ongoing development of James, Wingo, Wilson, McClellan etc. will tell the tale. We’re going to take some lumps due to inexperience but you can’t get experience watching mediocre experienced guys.
 

GatorTruth133

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The defense, personnel, and with Austin should be a much more improved and perhaps more aggressive unit that we've seen in many years. I am not expecting an all world defense but simple improvement. The talent that is developing and coming will help. If the D can get a 1/3 more 3 and outs than last year that alone would be much improved. They are going to have to get the ball back for the Offense. I have a feeling this defense is going to be a unit that will force some turnovers as well. Looking forward to seeing Armstrong's D.
AA's defense last year was top 5 in sacks and interceptions if I remember my podcast notes from April correctly. We beat LSU with just two defensive stops on 3rd down before the fourth quarter last year and FSU if we tackle Travis in the backfield on those third and longs he took to the half yard line. I don't think AA will be having our guys 5-8 yards off the ball on most passing plays. That's asking for problems. They can hit a quick route or if you try to come down/jump the route, you can be killed if it is a double route like a sluggo or stop and go. We were near the top in fumbles last year (AA was not, but was in '21), I think this year will balance that out.

I don't doubt that this D will be improved, it's a matter of how much. Yes, some of that is more hope than seeing fact, but some of it is seeing facts like depth, aggressiveness and a little scheme improvements.

A lot of unknowns that probably won’t really be answered until after week 3, though I think we’ll know a lot by late next Thursday night.
I think we see a lot of possible answers next week. However, if Rising and/or Kuithe doesn't play or they are severely limited, then we can't know for sure because we haven't played a full strength P5 team yet. Tennessee is a weird animal because in my opinion, they might be the best offense we face if Milton has his stuff together. So we could do really well and just face another ridiculously good Heupel offense. For all the Milton talk, Tennessee ran the ball as well as we did last year. Stopping the run would be a big start in both SLC and against UT.

Our DL depth is better, but I don't see a solid pass rusher amongst them. The depth should help a great deal against the run and I can't see us giving up 800 yards against LSU on counter this year in BR as we did with the undersized Grantham DL 2 years ago. But, the only strong area of improvement I see is at CB. Maybe that helps enough, but no matter how good your press coverage, if you can't get to the QB, everyone eventually gets open.

I think the LB's and Nickel/star coverage of RBs and TEs should be better this year.

Safety could be a train wreck and the reports that Moten hasn't shined are concerning. Maybe the Freshman surprise everyone, as they were not the top rated of our DB class (compared to JJ and DJ).

As I've mentioned in other threads, I don't think our safeties and lack of rush becomes an issue until TN, and then only if Milton can take advantage of it. Until I see him drastically improved, I will have my doubts.

To be honest, Moten is the list of my worries for not shining, he is probably playing like he has in his career. If Wilson, Miguel Mitchell, and a freshman or two can be decent, since they have a lot more eligibility, I'll be ok as in my mind winning is not the biggest thing this year (though I do think there still needs to be an expectation/standard) as much as building for next season. I said in another thread, to me, this is your 2007 year, the year you have a ton of youth playing and you need to make that jump the following season.

I think Princely (who is one of the top 5 returning guys graded in pass rush in the SEC), Sapp, McClellan and Banks will be fine with the pass rush and we could see some guys like Pyburn and Collins step up to. The thing I like is AA seemed to have a really good time with the simulated pressures in the Spring. That is the showing a blitz, but only sending 4. Donk was the one who pointed out to me we didn't blitz as much as many (including myself) thought or the announcers spoke about. Re-watching, we looked to blitz a lot early, but only rushed 4 guys on most plays. That detail of play causes confusion for offenses. I think that will help as well.
Looks like 2 P5 transfers are key questions: Mitchell & Moten. Those guys, like Cox, Shorter & Grimes, don’t tend to suddenly blossom as stars in their new home. But they do tend to be reasonably solid and contribute some.

It’s the G6 who have grown or emerged that have potential to prove they can do it at the next level in SEC play: Banks, Jackson & Nunnery. A 3-star who grew 6” and added 70lbs yet can still move is a real find.

Those guys plus the ongoing development of James, Wingo, Wilson, McClellan etc. will tell the tale. We’re going to take some lumps due to inexperience but you can’t get experience watching mediocre experienced guys.

Banks was technically P5 at Louisville, but yes I agree that typically they don't tend to suddenly blossom as stars, but there are times it does happen. Many do become solid. That's really all I need from Jackson and Nunnery. I'd love them to be superstars, but if they can just be solid and provide depth, that's an improvement for us right there. As I said above, this is the year for lumps, but I think those guys took some lumps last year that will put them ahead of where some first year starters are. I don't think that makes them superstars yet necessarily, but they could surprise many)
 

GatorJ

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CB will be better because they have more quality depth and can plays press man.

Safety is a huge concern but I think Castell locks down a starting position a couple weeks into the season.

Linebacker will take a small step backwards because Miller is gone. But it has deeper talent so I think we will see more consistency. Basically when Miller was out last year, LB play suffered greatly. Now when we substitute there should be less drop off.

Umanmielen could become a star this year. He’s playing his rightful position as OLB. Shouldn’t be too much of a drop off when Sapp spells him.

DL has one star in McClellan. But a lot of large bodies to throw at the offense. Remember that pretty much nobody played more DL snaps in the nation than Dexter. And he was banged up for much of the year.
 

Detroitgator

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Dude was booming 60-70 punts in the open practice. Hope he can do it under the lights.
He adopted Townsend's "Conor McGregor fluid warm up walk" during the offseason and will improve greatly on these stats from last year: "Played in each of Florida's 13 games, punting 52 times for an average of 44.1 yards with 20 50-plus yard punts, 20 punts inside the 20-yard line and a long punt of 69 yards… Punted six times for an average of 44.7 yards with two 50-plus yard punts and one punt inside the 20-yard line in the Gasparilla Bowl"

For reference... unlike some here, I put in the f'n work... i do the f'n research!
 

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