UF vs FSU in sending WRs to the NFL
- Thread starter GatorJ
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- Jun 9, 2014
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You remember how scared you were of those Jimbob offenses when he was with Saban at LSU?
Me either.
- Jun 12, 2014
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I think he caught a huge break from "Miracles on the Plains" that year. I really do not believe FSU would have beaten that Bama team.
- Jul 30, 2014
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And then there’s UF. All that talent and unable to create offensive production in the Swamp. Even Chris Thompson has made a small name for himself as a KC free agent, but he didn’t do squat for our offense.
- Jun 9, 2014
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College football coaches are sort of like mutual fund managers. You gotta see them through up and down markets before you really know how good they are.
- Jun 12, 2014
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You knew Jimbo was subpar with all the talent at LSU, you take away his two years with Winston he is a 4 loss coach with top 5 talent... But yet some have claimed he is an offensive guru....
Towels 'N Sporks
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See I would say just the opposite... I think that shows us how bad our coaches were because we have had all of these NFL wide receivers and NO offense for years.
That's right folks. Muschamp had 3 receivers that ended up playing in the NFL, 2 NFL qbs, an all-pro caliber NFL tight end, an NFL kicker, and 2-3 NFL running backs on his offense... AT THE SAME TIME. AND OUR OFFENSE WAS STILL PISS POOR.
Look at the motherf****** roster of our 2011 football team. The talent is absurd. Almost every starter on offense made an NFL roster. That team had almost as much talent on offense as the Tebow offenses, if not more, and the defense had more talent than any team we have ever had IMO. We should have won the national title that year. Instead, we suffered through watching us squeak by with wins game after game, even against weaker opponents, and then choke away the one game we had to win- Georgia.
I'm SOooo glad we gave Muschamp a huge contract extension for that great accomplishment.
- Jun 12, 2014
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But no one here is arguing that we have had subpar coaching and lack of production the last 8 years.... I think we all have that understanding... So what exactly is your point?
Towels 'N Sporks
We R Bad Cause Urban Cheated on Wife
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I guess I assumed people would understand my point by the post I was replying too. Poster suggested the lack of FSU wide receivers in NFL proved Jimbo wasn't actually a good coach. I guess I should have explicitly said that I thought that proved he was actually a decent coach. Since he has had a decent passing game, even without Rapeis Jameis, despite his lack of NFL quality receivers.
So my exact point, since you are asking, is this:
My opinion is that Jimbo was doing more with less, while we were doing less with more. I don't feel that his low NFL WR are indicative that he was a bad coach, and that it might even suggest the opposite. :)
The other point of my post was... to vent
- Jun 11, 2014
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I guess I assumed people would understand my point by the post I was replying too. Poster suggested the lack of FSU wide receivers in NFL proved Jimbo wasn't actually a good coach. I guess I should have explicitly said that I thought that proved he was actually a decent coach. Since he has had a decent passing game, even without Rapeis Jameis, despite his lack of NFL quality receivers.
So my exact point, since you are asking, is this:
My opinion is that Jimbo was doing more with less, while we were doing less with more. I don't feel that his low NFL WR are indicative that he was a bad coach, and that it might even suggest the opposite. :)
The other point of my post was... to vent
So I guess these are the points I would make:
1. The fact that Jimbo was able to recruit super high rated/NFL potential wide receivers and none of them panned out really talks about his coaching failures. His ability to develop players is shyttastic.
2. We actually did the opposite. Our coaching staff was able to develop players for the NFL or at least not damage them so bad they couldn’t make it to the NFL. But they had no idea how to actually coach games. How to actually designed game plans. So they were more positional coaches than anything. Trying to run a program. And that’s on Foley.
- Jun 9, 2014
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- Jun 9, 2014
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- Jun 11, 2014
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Pretty sure CTs on the Texans, unless the Chiefs just got him from there.
- Jul 30, 2014
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I remember watching a KC game last season and CT scored a touchdown, I thought “must be another WR with the same name” until the commentators mentioned “free agent out of UF.” I had no idea CT could be NFL material.
I’m guessing the Texans acquired him in the off season.
Edit: just looked it up. Maybe the Texans were playing KC and I got the teams mixed up.
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- Aug 25, 2014
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Yep. In 2003, he managed a whopping 7 points AT HOME against the Fighting Zookers, a 5 loss team (4 in the regular season)! Good grief, Jimbo is so overrated it’s ridiculous.
Towels 'N Sporks
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So..... Top 5 classes every year and he is doing more w less?
Lol this guy thinks a top 5 class is more indicative of a good player than actually making an NFL roster...
In terms of his offense? Yes. He was doing more with less or much more with the same. Our recruits weren't that much worse than FSU's in the muschamp years. I believe we had some top 5 classes during that time as well. One school had the top offenses in the land, and one had one of the worst.
You are choosing to be ignorant here. Are you saying that his receivers were better than ours because a website rated them better? So you put more stock in "stars" than whether a player ends up making an NFL roster? It certainly seems like that is what you are suggesting.
Edit: I just a did a little research for fun and because I love being right. And from 2006-2014. There were only 3 of those 9 years where FSU had better recruiting classes than we did. Both schools almost always had top 10 recruiting classes in those years.
So, not only do we have more NFL receivers, wide receivers, and running backs on NFL rosters than FSU from those years(What I base my decisions on whether players are actually talented), but we generally had as good or better players according to scouts for different web companies (what you base your decisions on whether a player is talented on).
Either way, both teams had good players (ours had better) and one team had far more success offensively and overall during those years. So yes, one coach was doing more with less, or at least much more with the same.
I agree that FSU has had more talent on the roster since 2015 though, but that's clearly who we weren't talking about here.
Toodles!
Final edit: I don't think Jimbo is that great of a coach. I think ours were just that bad, and he happened to be lucky enough to have Rapeis Jameis. So at least on that, we can agree (I think).
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- Jun 12, 2014
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So you are saying you have more knowledge than scouting experts? That stars don't matter. You are admitting to them being rated higher, but it doesn't matter because you say so, because you are a better expert?
So you research included years where Bobby B was the head coach and not all the years Fisher was head coach.. Flawed research. Fisher was head coach from 2010-2017.
FSU have the better class 5 out of 8 years (not 3 of 9). 5 times his classes were in the top 5 and the other 3 in the top 10. UF had 3 classes in the top 5 during that time, and 2 other clases in the top 10 (3 classes outside of 10). But there is no talent difference there?
Average class rating of FSU 5.25
Average class rating of UF 10.375
Average star rating of FSU offense skill positions 3.80392 (9 5 stars)
Average star rating of UF offense skill positions 3.65517 (0 5 stars)
Obvious you believe Jimbo was a great coach who did more with less, because you spent this whole time defending him. Jimbo is a 4 loss coach with at worst top 10 talent.
Towels 'N Sporks
We R Bad Cause Urban Cheated on Wife
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1. To answer your first question: No I'm not saying I have more knowledge than scouting efforts. I don't think I ever said anything about my scouting knowledge. I was saying that if a player makes it to the NFL is a better indicator of talent than their stars in high school. Surely you agree with that? Correct they are "rated" higher. I agree that 5 stars are better than 4 stars, usually.
2. I'm not going to get into a research war with you so I will say that (a) I thought Jimbo had been head coach longer than that so I should have probably done something like 2008-2015, since that would be the vast majority of the players that Jimbo had on his roster. I think that would be the most fair indicator of talent since it counts juniors/seniors on the team in his first years and doesn't include the 2016-17 classes since those players hadn't played much for Jimbo. I'm not going to go back and do all the research but maybe you would like to, and I would bet that from 2008-2015 our classes would look very similar.
3. So even if we stick with your data, they average the 5th ranked class and we average 10th. I would still say that's pretty close in talent high school wise. It's the difference between one 5 star recruit maybe? That leads me back to my point... the talent at both schools was very similar, and the results were very different.
4. I don't think Jimbo is a great coach. I even said. "I don't think Jimbo is that great of a coach. I think ours were just that bad, and he happened to be lucky enough to have Rapeis Jameis. So at least on that, we can agree." I have said for years that Jimbo was just lucky that he got Jameis, otherwise his record would be sub-par and he wouldn't have a job (still think he is better than anything we have had since Urban)
My example was to prove how pathetic our coaching was. We had a top 10 recruiting class nearly every year during the years I mentioned yet only cracked the top 10 once, and the rest we weren't even close. Jimbo is not a great coach.
5. So my overall point remains that NFL talent (which we had more of) is more indicative of talent on a team than the stars from recruiting services. Essentially, I'm saying that college and NFL accolades are a greater indicator of a good player than high school accolades.
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