Mullen-SOS-Urban

TheDouglas78

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Well, we’ll agree to disagree. Hall’s recruiting was never more than average. Matthews was a complete unknown other than his involvement with Kyle Morris in a gambling ditty and Emmitt was gone. We were on probation, which worsened the outlook. I would expect SOS to say nice things. Those guys became his.

Several of the current starters on offense were Mac recruits.

Shane Matthews was a Mississippi player of the year, up for the Gatorade All American and was recruited by a number of D1/SEC schools out of High School. Hall didn't have the splash recruits at the splash positions, but he recruited the line well, and games are won/lossed in the trenches
 

Theologator

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Well, we’ll agree to disagree. Hall’s recruiting was never more than average. Matthews was a complete unknown other than his involvement with Kyle Morris in a gambling ditty and Emmitt was gone. We were on probation, which worsened the outlook. I would expect SOS to say nice things. Those guys became his.

Several of the current starters on offense were Mac recruits.

SOS always notes how talented a team he inherited in 1990, especially on defense, and credits that with their early success. Argue with him.

Matthews was a talented coach’s son who was Mississippi player of the year. He had some growing up to do and the coaching change was timely for him. It’s not like he was a walk-on from Mayo.
 

soflagator

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Richt won a couple of SEC championships in his first few years.

It's really an insult to Richt.

He backed in twice after losing to Zook and first-year Meyer(plus Auburn) and got Arkansas and a bad Lsu team in Atlanta. Superb.

Question. On your lower back Mark Richt tattoo, did you go with the butt-part hair style, or the buzz cut he rocked later? Both look tremendous I’m sure. Just curious.
 

TheDouglas78

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Question. On your lower back Mark Richt tattoo, did you go with the butt-part hair style, or the buzz cut he rocked later? Both look tremendous I’m sure. Just curious.

Why Sofla questions he already knows the answer by heart?
 

Bernardo de la Paz

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To your first point , yes fsu and um were a force. But we didn’t play miami(fortunately) and lost to fsu in 5 of our first 8 tries. The only difference between them and Alabama now is that we could, and did, lose to the noles and still win our conference, giving us a title. That’s no longer the case. If fsu had joined the SECEast, we would’ve won the conference in ‘91 and ‘95 during Spurrier’s entire 12 years. That’s reality.

Also, while you are correct on miami and fsu with respect to recruiting, remember the canes went under investigation in ‘93(?) and we were the beneficiary with guys like Reidel and other PB/Br/Dade guys. They went on probation and were down for about 5 years. So when we were at our best, the canes just so happened to be relatively down. That’s not a coincidence.

As far as the schedule, it’s certainly different now, but I don’t see it really as any weaker. During Spurrier’s tenure, fsu and ut were stronger than they are now obviously. But uga was weaker and Lsu was a joke. And when we made Atl, we never got an Alabama team like the one we’ll be facing next week. There’s a reason Ark(twice), Auburn(twice), and Msu all made appearances as the West winner during the first 15 years. So no, I don’t think anyone is ok with just winning the East. But if we do end up losing to the best team we face this season, it won’t be any different than 7 of Spurrier’s 12 years. We simply won’t have a title to go with it. But back then, while we could claim the SEC, often times we were the third best team in our own state. It’s not better or worse. It’s just a different time.
How about looking at the first 34 games this way:

Top 25 ranked opponents:
Spurrier, 7-7
Meyer, 11-5
Mullen, 6-4

Unranked opponents:
Spurrier, 20-0
Meyer, 16-2
Mullen, 22-2

Top 10 opponents:
Spurrier, 4-3
Meyer, 6-2
Mullen, 4-3

Top 5 opponents:
Spurrier, 3-2
Meyer, 3-1
Mullen, 2-1

Undoubtedly, Spurrier and Meyer had more difficult schedules. Spurrier with 14 ranked opponents, 5 of which were top 5, and Meyer with 16 ranked opponents, 4 of which were top 5. That's compared to Mullen playing only 10 ranked opponents, 3 of which were top 5.

Mullen though has done better than I thought he would, despite inheriting the worst roster of the three (Meyer undoubtedly inherited the best). He's done well against the ranked teams when we've played them. We'll have to wait and see if he can keep it up (hopefully improve as Spurrier did) as the schedule gets tougher.
 

soflagator

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How about looking at the first 34 games this way:

Top 25 ranked opponents:
Spurrier, 7-7
Meyer, 11-5
Mullen, 6-4

Unranked opponents:
Spurrier, 20-0
Meyer, 16-2
Mullen, 22-2

Top 10 opponents:
Spurrier, 4-3
Meyer, 6-2
Mullen, 4-3

Top 5 opponents:
Spurrier, 3-2
Meyer, 3-1
Mullen, 2-1

Undoubtedly, Spurrier and Meyer had more difficult schedules. Spurrier with 14 ranked opponents, 5 of which were top 5, and Meyer with 16 ranked opponents, 4 of which were top 5. That's compared to Mullen playing only 10 ranked opponents, 3 of which were top 5.

Mullen though has done better than I thought he would, despite inheriting the worst roster of the three (Meyer undoubtedly inherited the best). He's done well against the ranked teams when we've played them. We'll have to wait and see if he can keep it up (hopefully improve as Spurrier did) as the schedule gets tougher.

I think that’s an excellent way to compare. As I’ve said, I’m not equating Mullen with either as of yet. But we’re talking about two first ballot HOF coaches. All time greats at their craft. The fact that he’s even in their conversation, and yet is more often than not bashed here is my point. It’s just odd.
 

Marine1

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What it looks like from nearly every approach is that DM has done pretty well. Certainly better than I thought was possible.
 

EuroGator

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I don’t know if this has been posted previously but it’s interesting:

By the way, you 4 who have given Marine1's post negative ratings - why?

All he did was put forth data. Do you dispute the data? If so, please elucidate that for us. If you don't dispute it, then comment on it. He made no editorial, just data. Don't be small.
:haters:
 

Double Gator Dad

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It was widely accepted that our 2018 team was the least talented team we’d fielded in 4 decades. Matthews was a big recruit(something I learned here recently as I didn’t know either), Mills, Kirkpatrick, Jackson and a solid OL on offense, plus McCoy, Richardson, Odom, Culpepper, Bartley and White on defense. I’m not sure a single one of those guys wouldn’t have started our 2018 team(if you take away Jefferson and Grimes).

We have some starters on offense that were here(Toney, Trask, Gamble, Davis, Pitts was committed), but that’s always going to be the case. But the depth was terrible, and most of it was 3* leftovers.

I think both of you (sofla and 78) are correct.

My memory is that the team had lots of talent in the junior and senior classes but hardly any real talent in the lower classes. Galen left SOS all the players from a very good class with Emmitt in 1987 as well as a decent class in 1988. In 1989 Galen’s class was absolutely awful.
This is evidenced by the fact that SOS was able to win big in 1990 and 1991 but then dropped off in 1992 when all those juniors and seniors were gone.
By 1993 SOS had filled the roster with his guys and off he went
 

78

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Of course I was right. Sofla was 5 years old in 1990. You gonna trust facts coming from a 5-year-old?
 

GatorTruth133

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Hey, if Chizik, Malzahn and Freeze can do it, several times and with less talent, surely Disco Dan can, right?

You're
How about looking at the first 34 games this way:

Top 25 ranked opponents:
Spurrier, 7-7
Meyer, 11-5
Mullen, 6-4

Unranked opponents:
Spurrier, 20-0
Meyer, 16-2
Mullen, 22-2

Top 10 opponents:
Spurrier, 4-3
Meyer, 6-2
Mullen, 4-3

Top 5 opponents:
Spurrier, 3-2
Meyer, 3-1
Mullen, 2-1

Undoubtedly, Spurrier and Meyer had more difficult schedules. Spurrier with 14 ranked opponents, 5 of which were top 5, and Meyer with 16 ranked opponents, 4 of which were top 5. That's compared to Mullen playing only 10 ranked opponents, 3 of which were top 5.

Mullen though has done better than I thought he would, despite inheriting the worst roster of the three (Meyer undoubtedly inherited the best). He's done well against the ranked teams when we've played them. We'll have to wait and see if he can keep it up (hopefully improve as Spurrier did) as the schedule gets tougher.

Thank you, someone else gets the record, without context is a useless stat.
 

Theologator

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I think both of you (sofla and 78) are correct.

My memory is that the team had lots of talent in the junior and senior classes but hardly any real talent in the lower classes. Galen left SOS all the players from a very good class with Emmitt in 1987 as well as a decent class in 1988. In 1989 Galen’s class was absolutely awful.
This is evidenced by the fact that SOS was able to win big in 1990 and 1991 but then dropped off in 1992 when all those juniors and seniors were gone.
By 1993 SOS had filled the roster with his guys and off he went

The transition class in 1990 wasn’t great either. Terry Dean but not a lot of players as I recall. 13 recruits?

And the 1993 class aside from Fred Weary was weak, too. But Sos eventually raked in a lot of great ones including local finds like Mike Peterson, Wille & Terry Jackson and a special walk-on WR.

They say year 3 is typically a low point because of the transition class. SOS very nearly won an SEC in 1992 with 2 true freshmen OTs (Green & Odom).

UF is having a good year because:

1. Trask
2. Pitts
3. Great team culture handling COVID disruptions better than most
4. The SECe is putrid.

Mullen gets credit for developing Trask and Pitts (and others), scheming for Trask and Pitts, and for the team culture.
 

ThreatMatrix

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Spurrier revolutionized offenses and put up a lot of points as a result. But even he would admit defenses were a lot simpler then. And he hated Georgia and that meant we won a lot of SEC Championships. However the SEC of the 90's is not the SEC of 2020. Spurrier didn't have to deal with 'bama and Georgia dominating recruiting or with carpet baggers raiding the state. The playing field was level. Spurrier was probably the best game day coach in history. And he had a hate to lose, competitive nature. Unfortunately the hatred for Georgia didn't carry over to FSU so although we won the SEC we didn't get NC shots because of losses to FSU. And he considered bowl games as something to do before hitting the links. In 91 a win against of ND in the Sugar Bowl might have got us an NC but we got embarrassed instead. In 93 we win the SEC and our bowl game but the late season loss to FSU hurt us. I could go on. So we only got two shots at the NC and got blown out once and won the second one after a rube-goldberg series of events gave us a rematch with FSU.

Spurrier also demanded perfection out of himself. And when you demand perfection of yourself you demand perfection of your assistants. Spurrier, while loyal to his assistants, would not hesitate to demote and make changes. But Spurrier had no love for recruiting. In this day and age when recruiting is all about the haves and have-nots you have to wonder if Spurrier would have joined the arms race.

For all the reverence for Spurrier in 12 years he won the SEC AND beat FSU only twice. In this day and age that will get you a playoff spot. So if we are going to hold Mullen to the same standard then there it is: Playoffs once every 6 years.
 

Swamp Donkey

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Spurrier revolutionized offenses and put up a lot of points as a result. But even he would admit defenses were a lot simpler then. .
Defenses are even easier now, as last year LSU and this year have proven.

DBs are still WRs that cant catch.

It maybe be harder to read, w LBs playing matchup zone and running w their receivers but only for 7 yards etc, but SOS could now doubt still exploit the defenses.

He had no answer for zone blizes but figured it out quickly.
 

ThreatMatrix

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Defenses are even easier now, as last year LSU and this year have proven.

DBs are still WRs that cant catch.

It maybe be harder to read, w LBs playing matchup zone and running w their receivers but only for 7 yards etc, but SOS could now doubt still exploit the defenses.

He had no answer for zone blizes but figured it out quickly.
Take it up with the man himself. From his own lips he said defenses were a lot easier back then and what he got away with then wouldn't work today. Just look at his performance at SC. Which brings up another point. Spurrier was not a man to adjust his offense to his personnel. His QBs were either round pegs in round holes or he shuffled the deck until he found one. And that was at a time when we could be three deep in serviceable QB's.
And like most coaches he was stubborn. It took him until the NC game in 96 to go to the shotgun because HE never played from the shotgun. And let's not forgot some crushing defeats. ND in the Sugar Bowl, the Choke at Doak and the 95 NC off the top of my head. The biggest in my mind was his last game at Florida field when absent Earnest Graham he still tried to run our way to a victory. That's the only game I walked out of cursing him. I guess he heard me though but that's when he left because of "unappreciative fans".
 

soflagator

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Defenses are even easier now, as last year LSU and this year have proven.

DBs are still WRs that cant catch.

It maybe be harder to read, w LBs playing matchup zone and running w their receivers but only for 7 yards etc, but SOS could now doubt still exploit the defenses.

He had no answer for zone blizes but figured it out quickly.

Definitely some similarities between those early 90's defenses and today in that neither were set for the types of offense we rolled out in 90, or Lsu, UF and Alabama have the past two seasons. I can remember as a kid seeing corners jog out to our WR's with the body language of "I have no chance here". They were so set on tackling FBs and covering on third down, they were totally out of their league in coverage. As I said, you saw some of that last year and are seeing it again this year with us and the Tide. Timing isn't everything, but it's huge. I think we've been at the right place at the right time on two--now 3--occasions.
 

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