A Few More Thoughts On Why We Are Where We Are...

[GatorTAG]

I'm happy to have the University become top tier academically. I'm embarrassed by some of our former football stars. However, I am emotionally committed to having a winning football team I can be proud of. It's not fun to root for mediocrity. All college teams are down sometimes. Then, things turn around and the team does well. If we purposely strive toward mediocrity things will never turn around (and seven years is starting to feel like never). Soon simply making a bowl game will be considered a good successful season. If that happens my emotional attachment to the team is likely to weaken.

Unfortunately, I don't think you can have both.

 

[GatorStud]

Very true about Mac as a person and a coach. But how did we end up with guys like Muschamp and Mac in the first place.

IMO, after the "win at all cost", and subsequent "broken program" of the Meyer years there was a conscious effort made by the administration to clean the football program up. That was the main direction given to Chump and what he claimed he did upon his departure. I think that is Mac's main task as well.

The administration at UF is much more concerned with the Academics and has made UF into a top tier university. They are no longer concerned with how well the football team is. Only that it doesn't give the school a black eye with dumb athletes getting arrested. My opinion is we have made a turn in this direction and it will make it much harder to compete for championships because our Academics standards will not allow us to get the type of players we used to get. Donna Shalala did this when she took over at Miami and you see how it has affected them We will be much more like Stanford, GT, or Note Dame.

Maybe we'll have competitive years every now and then but we'll never be on par with Alabama, FSU, Clemson or even Ol' Miss with the type of players we're willing to accept. I'm learning to accept that at least I lived through the Gators glory years. It's some our children and grandchildren will have to read about.

Yeah, an interesting take TAG that certainly would make our "magnetism for recruits" more difficult for the Coach to overcome. It also may help explain why some of this obvious football deficiencies are mounting when compared to what is needed to field Top 5 teams... maybe M3s GI condition isn't so silly after all... we know Meyer wants the Crystal and you start setting up road blocks to that cause and he's like I'm out of here, lol. Good take.

 

[gatormandan]

I dont think we know how our new AD will govern. I am hoping he wants to win and he will do what it takes to get there. We all know where there is a will there is a way. Foley may be hanging around in the background but I want to believe the new guy is his own man and wont allow his presence to bother him. If Mac loses this team and we continue to lose and we fail to bring in a top class I have to believe he will put an end to it sooner than later.

 

[EyeDocGator]

Unfortunately, I don't think you can have both.

Before SOS left the team he expressed frustration with the administration because admission standards kept him from getting players that were easily admitted to most other SEC schools. Perhaps we can't have both good academics and a good football team, but that is still a worthy goal.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Before SOS left the team he expressed frustration with the administration because admission standards kept him from getting players that were easily admitted to most other SEC schools. Perhaps we can't have both good academics and a good football team, but that is still a worthy goal.

Meyer was able to.

 

[cover2]

This would probably make him a pretty good position coach or even coordinator......it doesn't work for HC's though where you have to be a leader of many, not just a few.

I agree to a certain point, if I'm understanding correctly. He can't be the day in/day out floor walker with the players; but he has to be with the staff so that they take care of that part with the players and also know when changes are needed and must be implemented. Don't get me wrong, he can still go out and have a beer with the staff, but the hours they meet and really anytime they are in the football offices, lockerrooms, etc., he's got to rule them with a lot firmer hand than it appears he has thus far. It's easy to fire your secondary coach after the season because he isn't getting the job done and can't recruit; it's better (and a lot harder because somebody has to pick up the slack immediately) to fire him the moment you know he can't or won't do the job. There's a clear message that goes along with this approach.

That wasn't the case last year when Mac berated Kelvin Taylor for a thoughtless penalty. Mac was severely criticized in the press and everything changed after that. The team initially improved, but the piss and vinegar disappeared. It's always easier to find a villain. Do we blame Mac. How about Foley? Maybe the problem is Fuchs; perhaps he is more concerned with PC image than winning football games. I know it's not Alfred's fault. Players need to be coached, so I'm not going to blame the players. I've seen this in the business world where a boss who wants to be liked allows employees to take advantage. This lowers morale for all employees, productivity drops, and departments become dumpster fires. Some people just shouldn't be bosses (or head coaches).

The bold is the head of the nail being struck.

You are well respected on here. And even for me...it is really depressing to see that come from your keyboard. (huge sigh)

That is very nice of you to say Rex, and I am appreciative, but 8 years in the desert makes you look a little harder and with more focus both without and within. Nothing is getting fixed or made better on the path we now travel. We may yet get a glimmer, but I'd be hard pressed to believe there is a long term improvement just around the bend.

 

[cover2]

Thanks Cover for the second round of 'thoughts'. As we can see on the board this week, the way we lost to Arkansas has really raised our antennas for those who have followed Gator ball for a long time (watching College football for a long time specifically). Many of us, myself included, are not as astute as you (and the usual board suspects) in the Xs and Os part of the game, but our eyes don't deceive us. That's why I come here to get some technical and behind the scenes stuff. We have all seen in the sport enough poor "coaching", inept play and curious team identities. We have all been part of SEC and NC runs. You can see and actually feel the mojo of a successful campaign. My biggest concern (beside the mission critical low magnetism the program seems to have in recruiting) is this lack of Gator pride/60 minutes of controlled jail break energy/want to/everybody on the bench plugged into the game as much as the 1s on the field... loosely meant this year. I mean to me this is serious. If cell phones were allowed on the sideline, I truly believe half the players would be texting or gaming versus directing positive energy in a unified cause toward the field of play... biting at the bit for the call to go in and play. There are times our sideline is just apathetic compared to those days of championship play.

I certainly agree. Where the sidelines are concerned, here's a picture I saved from last season...



...I know it was a big play against a rival, but even the TV timeout guy is into it. Guys jumping up and down. Just doesn't seem to be much excitement now.

I think one thing that needs to be looked at is the Mac-Nuss relationship. Are these two guys on the same page at all. I still go back to the first offensive play of the Arky game. You don't go empty back on the 10 yard line with a hobbling QB that has a weak arm in a hostile atmosphere. And against one of the worst rushing D's in CFB. I think it has more to do with what Nuss has done his last two stops. Nuss is game planning and calling plays. He's not the quality OC that you want. Friends or not Mac has got to do something and the buck stops with him. I am sure he won't publicly throw him under the bus, but it can get you fired. A more in tune OC IMO would help Mac's situation.

Whether they are close friends or they aren't, it still falls on the shoulders of the HC. Gotta think Mac's footprint is on the offense. If not, it is beyond dumb to not have figured this problem out and have at least attempted some big corrections at this point. Should have been seen (or at least accepted) much earlier I believe.

 

[biggator6]

Unfortunately, I don't think you can have both.

Michigan would like a word with you.

Meyer was able to.

Meyer had a good football team that didn't give the university a black eye?! Uh.. Harvin punching coaches, Hernandez murdering people, etc, etc

 

[TheDouglas78]

Michigan would like a word with you.



Meyer had a good football team that didn't give the university a black eye?! Uh.. Harvin punching coaches, Hernandez murdering people, etc, etc

The question was a good football team and good athletics.. Meyer was able to... The other stuff is other stuff.

 

[biggator6]

The question was a good football team and good athletics.. Meyer was able to... The other stuff is other stuff.

I don't know.. we won the fulmer cup under Meyer.. he was only here for a short while - and I think if he'd hung around, the reputation would have gone south very quickly.

 

[TheDouglas78]

I don't know.. we won the fulmer cup under Meyer.. he was only here for a short while - and I think if he'd hung around, the reputation would have gone south very quickly.

Meant good football and good academics. Meyer created his own pool, but to say we can't have both academics and good football I think is false.

 

[MidwestChomp]

First, this is a great intelligent conversation. There are schools that have both a solid football program and academics. WI, MI, Stanford, even ND (ND and Stanford have down years this year) all come to mind. And while these haven't won a national championship is a long time, they have recruited players that I suspect we would love to have at UF. For example I would love to have WI's freshman QB or even ND's QB. I suspect the admin recognizes the strengths of a great football program. When it is strong, enrollment is up, revenues are up. It's a win-win situation. No one wants a middle of the road football program unless you are say Kentucky.

I think both Mac and Chump came in thinking this is UF, and it will be easy to recruit and win. Problem is shortcomings with facilities (yeah recruits want to be pampered), and poor decisions by coaches (like bad assistant coaches and failures to address depth) has been our achilles heel.

 

[Gatorboy856]

I agree to a certain point, if I'm understanding correctly. He can't be the day in/day out floor walker with the players; but he has to be with the staff so that they take care of that part with the players and also know when changes are needed and must be implemented. Don't get me wrong, he can still go out and have a beer with the staff, but the hours they meet and really anytime they are in the football offices, lockerrooms, etc., he's got to rule them with a lot firmer hand than it appears he has thus far. It's easy to fire your secondary coach after the season because he isn't getting the job done and can't recruit; it's better (and a lot harder because somebody has to pick up the slack immediately) to fire him the moment you know he can't or won't do the job. There's a clear message that goes along with this approach.


The bold is the head of the nail being struck.


That is very nice of you to say Rex, and I am appreciative, but 8 years in the desert makes you look a little harder and with more focus both without and within. Nothing is getting fixed or made better on the path we now travel. We may yet get a glimmer, but I'd be hard pressed to believe there is a long term improvement just around the bend.

But are we sure the Mac is not raising Cain behind the scenes? I don't know I don't see it in the press conferences and when he is interviewed on game days. ????? Who knows???

 

[Detroitgator]

First and foremost, the Head Coach must be a LEADER, and by that, I mean a leader as I learned it in the Army from what was then FM 22-100 "Military Leadership." While there is much more than what I will list, these are the "11 Principles of Leadership" and to be a Top 10 program, Let alone THE program, you must possess and master all of them to be a Head Coach. Saban has them in spades, as did SOS, Meyer to an extent, and I would say Harbaugh is there too. Very, very few, if any, others do. Here are the principles, it is self-explanatory how they apply not just to leading in combat, but yes, in football (or anything) too. While you read through these, think about how McElwain and Muschamp, then Meyer (who doesn't measure up either, just measures better), then the Saban's, SOS's and probably Harbaugh too... I'd follow those last three into combat, I'd follow Meyer through the first two victories, then he'd have broken down and gotten people killed. Mc and Chump would be dead or relieved of command:

1. Know yourself and seek self-improvement.
2. Be tactically and technically proficient.
3. Seek responsibility and take responsibility for your action.
4. Make sound and timely decisions.
5. Set the example.
6. Know your soldiers and look out for their well-being.
7. Keep your soldiers informed.
8. Develop a sense of responsibility in your subordinates.
9. Ensure that the task is understood, supervised, and accomplished.
10. Train your soldiers as a team.
11. Employ your unit in accordance with its capabilities.

It's really that simple and an easy tool when evaluating a potential HC or measuring the current one.

For levity, I leave you with this:

 

[2ndAmend]

SIR YES SIR

 

[TN G8tr]

I certainly agree. Where the sidelines are concerned, here's a picture I saved from last season...

View attachment 4315

Love the look on Del Rio's Face

...I know it was a big play against a rival, but even the TV timeout guy is into it. Guys jumping up and down. Just doesn't seem to be much excitement now.


Whether they are close friends or they aren't, it still falls on the shoulders of the HC. Gotta think Mac's footprint is on the offense. If not, it is beyond dumb to not have figured this problem out and have at least attempted some big corrections at this point. Should have been seen (or at least accepted) much earlier I believe.

Agreed

 

[g8torfan]

I'm so depressed when thinking about our coaching situation and where we go from here. Our offensive guru ain't working, our defensive guru didn't work, who is out there that would fit the bill? We need someone that can coach, run a clean program, RECRUIT, inspire, teach and WIN! Personally I think when Mac finally gets the ax he is going to have done so much damage that it's going to take the next coach a few years to turn this program around. We need a 50 year old Steve Spurrier or a Meyer that isn't morally and ethically challenged. I'm sure everyone longs for the glory days when S.O.S. was throwing a visor, zinging everyone with the best one-liners ever and giving the middle finger to the rest of the SEC and college football in general. But it seems like that was a lifetime ago now... Where do we go from here? Anyone? Bueller, Bueller, Bueller. I need hope, today especially, if the election turns out like I think it's been rigged to.

 

[CaribGator]

I think point three is arrogance. I think Mac thinks his scheme is better than what he sees and doesn't want to change anything because he thinks it will work. He is blinded by his arrogance, just like Muschamp was.

I can definitely see some arrogance in butters, but I tend to agree with Cover that it is actually stupidity and stubbornness. Same shiat that cost Les Miles his job, who supposedly has had an epiphany that his offense needed to evolve. Butters has nuss running the same shiat game after game, that isn't working, with no adjustments nor any imagination on adding new wrinkles, plays.

And to add to Cover's take on hee haw being an offensive mind, you would think that he realizes that you need bodies in the trenches, where are our recruits for the Oline??

 

[FireFoley]

Cover, your opinions are always knowledgeable ans insightful, and I am sure there is a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on in all programs that we do not know about. But I tend to watch games with two objective eyes and it usually does not take me very long to determine whether a guy has IT or not when it comes to being a good HC. I judge it on Game Management, which includes clock management, play calling (on both sides of ball based on situation), fundamentals, improvement, risk/reward, etc. I noticed early on last year that Butters sux at Game Management. And it continued Saturday against ARK, on our very 1st offensive play from scrimmage. We have it 1st and 10 on our on 10 yd. line. We go 5-wide, and basically all 5 guys ran 5-yd. stick routes (or button hooks, or little slants, whatever you call it). The point I am making is that you are running a pass play where you have all your receivers at the same level, near your own endzone. ARK (coached by Bieliema), is notorious for being a zone coach/team and always a safety who never gets beat deep (he coached Jim Leonard who was never out of position at WISC). ARK is not going to press there so they are sitting in zone meaning there is going to be traffic almost everywhere. Now I am not blaming the coach for the INT, I am not blaming the QB for the INT, I am not blaming the WR for the INT!!!. My point is that is quite a high risk play in that part of the field (vs. being near midfield), for say a 5 yd. gain. It is not the result of the play (INT for TD) that made it a bad call, but just the play itself. If you throw there you have to throw short safe(i.e. sideline), or throw long. To me it was a case where they had obviously scripted the first 12 or 15 plays from scrimmage (many coaches do this), however you have to be able to adjust based on the situation/field position, etc. It is clear this was going to be the first play from scrimmage regardless. This and many other examples I can cite over the 2 years tell me that Butters BLOWS and will continue to BLOW!!!!!!!!