Hail Mary my ass........

[jdh5484]

 

[88drgator]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Mary_pass

Our Heave to Cleve is included in Wikipedia's examples of the Hail Mary pass!

 

[stephenPE]

still a mistake

 

[EuroGator]

Heave to Cleve get's my vote. I confirm, it was no Hail Mary.

 

[stephenPE]

winner from across the pond.

 

[88drgator]

still a mistake

, I know but:

I tended to agree with you initially till I realized that the term is applied to any pass (typically at the end of a half) that has a low probability of success. The definition is not restricted to a "up for grabs" pass in a crowded end-zone only. In fact, as SAS pointed out, Staubach's famous Hail Mary was to a single receiver - who didn't even catch it in the endzone. For some reason, you seem to prefer the narrower definition, even though the term is being applied more broadly than that.

Still a great play regardless of definition.

 

[stephenPE]

It was less a hail mary and more of another phck you Tennerseee

 

[Ancient Reptile]

[/QUOTE]

, I know but:

I tended to agree with you initially till I realized that the term is applied to any pass (typically at the end of a half) that has a low probability of success. The definition is not restricted to a "up for grabs" pass in a crowded end-zone only. In fact, as SAS pointed out, Staubach's famous Hail Mary was to a single receiver - who didn't even catch it in the endzone. For some reason, you seem to prefer the narrower definition, even though the term is being applied more broadly than that.

Still a great play regardless of definition.

The pass was not low probability. Tyrie said he knew that he would catch it as soon as it left Franks' hand. Schwartz claimed that he knew before that. He said he knew when he saw the defensive alignment.
Indeed, this is the very reason people bother to argue. It is a way of dismissing the skill involved. Had this play occurred in the middle of the quarter, one would just say that Franks saw Tyrie in single coverage and knew he could beat his man. After eluding pressure he had a long but easy throw. End of story.

 

[rogdochar]

Downtown Cleveland
Hail Franks
The Big Heave

There is Spurrier's: "from the swamp all the way to Cleveland" But, as they call it in ad copy writing, that's too long for a "catch-phrase"(pun intended).
"heave to Cleve" is my favorite, but can we put Franks recognition in there too?

 

[AlexDaGator]

, I know but:

I tended to agree with you initially till I realized that the term is applied to any pass (typically at the end of a half) that has a low probability of success. The definition is not restricted to a "up for grabs" pass in a crowded end-zone only. In fact, as SAS pointed out, Staubach's famous Hail Mary was to a single receiver - who didn't even catch it in the endzone. For some reason, you seem to prefer the narrower definition, even though the term is being applied more broadly than that.

Still a great play regardless of definition.

It's hard to define but "I know it when I see it".

Yes, the Franks to Cleveland pass meets the definition but the definition is wrong. What defines a Hail Mary is what makes it different from a normal long bomb. You would throw a bomb on 2nd down and 3 in the first quarter. You wouldn't throw a Hail Mary because it's very likely to be batted down or intercepted. If a Hail Mary is any really long bomb, then why have a special name for it?

It's hard to define a Hail Mary, but you know it when you see it. I'll even go so far as to say the original Staubach Hail Mary may no longer qualify based on the way the term has evolved.

Not a Hail Mary:

Not a Hail Mary:

Hail Mary:

Hail Mary:

Make sense?




Alex.

 

[NavetG8r]

It's hard to define but "I know it when I see it".

Yes, the Franks to Cleveland pass meets the definition but the definition is wrong. What defines a Hail Mary is what makes it different from a normal long bomb. You would throw a bomb on 2nd down and 3 in the first quarter. You wouldn't throw a Hail Mary because it's very likely to be batted down or intercepted. If a Hail Mary is any really long bomb, then why have a special name for it?

It's hard to define a Hail Mary, but you know it when you see it. I'll even go so far as to say the original Staubach Hail Mary may no longer qualify based on the way the term has evolved.

Not a Hail Mary:

Not a Hail Mary:

Hail Mary:

Hail Mary:

Make sense?




Alex.

That's the way I've always seen it too, and it's the way I'll continue to see it. Nobody will ever convince me a throw to a single reciever, in single coverage, in stride, perfectly thrown, qualifies as a hail mary. Hail mary's always have been, and always will be a prayer chuck into the endzone among a swam of bodies hoping one of your guys comes down with it. That's a wing and a prayer, hence "hail mary". Franks threw a perfect strike to Cleveland where only he could catch it. Not a hail mary.

 

[88drgator]

"Originally meaning any sort of desperation play, a "Hail Mary" gradually came to denote a long, low-probability pass attempted at the end of a half when a team is too far from the end zone to execute a more conventional play, implying that it would take divine intervention for the play to succeed."

Heave to Cleve/F Bomb:

long, low-probability pass
attempted at the end of a half
when a team is too far from the end zone to execute a more conventional play

For those disagreeing or wanting a different definition, we could call it the "Our Father" instead?

 

[88drgator]

Franks said he wasn’t initially thinking about heaving a Hail Mary down field. He knew Florida needed at least 25 yards for a chance at a game-winning field goal. He also knew he didn’t have much time to work with, though.

So he scrambled right, stopped to set his feet with a defender barreling in on him and chucked the ball more than 60 yards in the air right on target.

“Actually, I didn’t go into that play looking to throw a deep ball. I knew the kick line was around the 35 to the 38, so obviously with 9 seconds left it would be kind of hard to get that far downfield to get out of bounds and stuff like that. So in the back of my head I’m thinking, get the ball into the receivers’ hands to let them go make plays,” Franks said.

“When I was rolling out I was actually thinking about running it, and then through the corner of my eye I just see Tyrie just running through the back on a little chase post back that way. Corner of my eye. It was kind of like an in the moment thing.”

 

[Swamp Donkey]

when a team is too far from the end zone to execute a more conventional play

It was a conventional play. Same one we used last time against Tinerc except we threw to another receiver instead of the underneath route. Same play, threw it farther. Farther than they thought possible I suspect.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

It's really easy to tell if it's a Hail Mary. First the play call is the "Hail Mary" or whatever variation on the term the team uses. Second all the receivers and secondary are in the same location in the end zone waiting for the pass.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

"Originally meaning any sort of desperation play, a "Hail Mary" gradually came to denote a long, low-probability pass attempted at the end of a half when a team is too far from the end zone to execute a more conventional play, implying that it would take divine intervention for the play to succeed."

Heave to Cleve/F Bomb:

long, low-probability pass
attempted at the end of a half
when a team is too far from the end zone to execute a more conventional play

For those disagreeing or wanting a different definition, we could call it the "Our Father" instead?

As before, the low probability is the problem. As the play started, Tyrie was running down the left side. But he was so far behind his man and the other defenders were so far away that Felipe could throw it down the center and let Tyrie run under it. I bet fans at the stadium were roaring in anticipation well before the catch.

 

[rogdochar]

The loosely used descriptive cliche' "Hail Mary" is a sportswiters' ploy, especially from it's origin = Roger Staubach's reply to the question: "What were you thinking when you threw that to Pearson?" Staubach (a devout Roman Catholic) replied: "I hoped and I said a few Hail Marys." So the writer used his word-crafting 'originality' to copy Staubach's words.
It later got loosely used as a last-ditch throw coming down from high, like a punt, with a crowd of various jerseys awaiting to "fight" over the catch or slap-away. There are defenders before, underneath, and behind the ball's destination and there is always a "group-awaiting" for its arrival.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

I'll add a third way to tell: A three man rush because the defense knows what you are attempting.

 

[Zambo]

It's like trying to define porn. You just know it when you see it.

 

[88drgator]

Crap! I got my first dislike from a major a-hole just for trying to clarify a definition!