Mullen/McElwain: Night and Day!

Discussion in 'Main Sports Forum' started by NoGaGator, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Theologator

    Theologator Enchanter

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    Your bias is showing a bit in that you focused on the one stat that supports your opinion. Correct me if I’m not reading this right:

    Overall in their special teams ranking, MSU was 27th, UF was 104th, a ranking that was buoyed by Eddie’s FG proficiency (2nd) and kickoff coverage (so many touchbacks). MSU was 15th in punt return efficiency last year. UF was 129th - next to last.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feist

    We should see improvement in coverage and returns, pending replacing our excellent punter and PK.
     
    • ThreatMatrix

      ThreatMatrix Definitely not buzzed
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      The 247 recruiter rankings have to be taken with a grain of salt. A huge grain of salt. i.e. comparing the Alabama LB recruiter to the Vandy DB recruiter is apples and oranges. You'd really have to take a deep dive in the data to get anything meaningful. A comparison of how a recruiter did at his school against the previous recruiter at that position/school might be illuminating. Plus there are often wild swings from year to year for the same recruiter. I think Nuss was our "best" recruiter last year and RS the year before. Does anybody believe that?
      If I'm going to rely entirely on 247 to determine if a coach is a good recruiter I'd have to see data that the coach improved recruiting at his school/position.
       
      • ltraz

        ltraz Well-Known Member

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        I said today that I don't factor in kicking, bc the ST coach doesn't really coach the kickers usually and it's so much about getting one guy. I think we'll probably see improvement, but given the stats I showed, that is hardly guaranteed. They were 90+ in punt return efficiency the year before if I remember. Our kickoff efficiuency, btw, was worse than msu's so not sure how that would help pad nord's stats. So again, I think we'll be better, but there's a solid chance at least one still sucks.

        You said a guy that has never coached TEs 'has to be better' than nord. Please explain how thats based on anything other than bias unless you simply think nord is the worst TE coach of any D1 coach alive.
         
      • gatormandan

        gatormandan The Donk Slayer!
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        BINGO!
         
        • Theologator

          Theologator Enchanter

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          In 40+ years of watching the Gators I cannot recall a stretch of worse TE production. In a struggling offense and particularly with young/struggling QBs the TE is typically an outlet, if anything overused. Goolsby regressed. The others never developed.

          So yeah - I think a decent coach switching positions will be better. He has coached WRs and RBs. Plus, Hevesy has TE coaching experience so it’s not like he’ll be on his own.

          That’s assuming he winds up on TEs.
           
          • Swamp Donkey

            Swamp Donkey THREE STAR U
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            I dont know how this isnt obvious.
             
            • Swamp Donkey

              Swamp Donkey THREE STAR U
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              No, and 247 has been repeatedly and undoubtedly shown to be shyt. I dont know why anyone would ever look at them.

              The think Nord is good bc of math. Nord was listed as a primary receuiter. One TE receuit is good for a class, two is considered excellent. Think we landed two each year, trying to find someone competent.

              Nord was hidden most of the time and never made the really important recruitimg visits. That says it all.
               
              • ThreatMatrix

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                Nord really was the worst coach I can ever remember. I can't think of any reason he had a job.
                Knox will be a step up. I'd prefer someone who's coached TE's before but WR/RB is close enough.
                 
                • t-gator

                  t-gator too sexy for my shirt

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                  Look at the comparisons.

                  Qb coach/oc
                  Brian Johnson vs Doug Nussmeier
                  Does it get any worse than Nuss?

                  RB coach
                  Jujuan Seider vs Tim Skipper
                  Pretty obvious Seider wins this out considering Skipper was coaching linebackers at csu and Seiders our best recruiter and as solid of a rb coach as it gets.

                  WR coach
                  Billy Gonzalez vs Kerry Dixon
                  I think I'll take Gonzalez over the guy who was coaching running backs at Florida atlantic.

                  TE/ST coach
                  Kevin Knox vs Greg nord
                  LOL


                  OL coach
                  John Hevesy vs Mike Summers
                  I'm rolling with hevesy.

                  DL coach
                  Sal Sunseri vs Chris Rumph
                  The redflag with Rumph is bama let him go to Texas and Texas didn't put up much of a fight to keep him. I'm going with Sunseri.

                  LB coach
                  Already forgot the GA's name vs RS
                  Shannon wins this out. Finally macs on the board.

                  DB coach
                  Charlton warren vs kirk callahan
                  Former unc and ut coach vs mid major db coach of ucf. Warren wins.


                  DC
                  Todd Grantham vs Geoff Collins
                  I believe Granthams defense in starkville was better than collins and he has way more nfl players in his resume. Grantham wins this one too.

                  After breaking it down, it's not even close.
                   
                  #109 t-gator, Jan 7, 2018
                  Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
                  • Swamp Donkey

                    Swamp Donkey THREE STAR U
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                    TE production? STs looked like they didnt bother practicing and were drawing plays in the dirt.

                    Not really any different than the offense though. I dont think Ive ever seen a P5 school face teams rushing 3 or 4 DL, even geographic teams, no bltizes no stunts, and still miss blocks completely on a regular basis.
                     
                    • Swamp Donkey

                      Swamp Donkey THREE STAR U
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                      Sidehat has the record for most yards given up at both Cowbell amd UF. Swag chalicing. Impressive considering how many bad DCs both habe had.

                      The only reason the perception is altered at all is bc he is compared against Butters' other coordinators, worst P5 OC and the worst ST coordinator probably in history. By those standards, I guess being the DC that give up the most yards at two different schools is damn near being a super star.

                      Sidehat inherited great talent, and benefit from Butters' nonexistent offenses. His man off and soft zone coverages mad every opposing QB look like Joe Montana. He is so lucky he inherited some great CBs and rush ends.

                      I hate RS but Id take him over Sidehat without a split second of doubt.

                      I hate Grantham too but he is an improvement over either.
                       
                      #111 Swamp Donkey, Jan 8, 2018
                      Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
                      • Theologator

                        Theologator Enchanter

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                        A chunk of the staff is long-term connected with Mullen & Seider is sticking with UF. Some of them are mercenaries that our harried village is happy to see.
                         
                      • cover2

                        cover2 I've grown old
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                        A lot of interesting opinions in this thread. My opinion is that we posters look divided into the usual sub-groups that either (a) are glad McElwain and his crew are now gone and Mullen provides a semblance of a return to a team that will be more consistently competitive based on his role under Meyer and what he was able to do at MSU, impressive or mediocre depending upon individual perspective, along with what he has accomplished thus far, or (b) he was not the big splash hoped for (Kelly though I think we dodged a big bullet here, Frost, etc.) and he will only bring a MSU mediocrity, along with a staff composed mostly of his cronies and his offense is only sustainable if we have a bruiser at QB.

                        There are points for consideration from both perspectives. Personally, I wouldn't call him a knock-out (but truthfully there are only a handful of those, most of whom aren't moving from where they are), but a solid hire. I like the staff he has put together and have no issue with him hiring guys with whom he is familiar. Nor do I fear a guy coaching the TE position for the first time. As has been mentioned, the position coach's background with receivers should pair well with what the OL coach can provide when they combo.

                        Ultimately, Mullen will have to provide more, but compared to what we have had most recently, he has been a breath of fresh air thus far and for those who can appreciate that, it is a welcome change. Again, he's going to have to produce and I believe he is taking the necessary steps for that to happen thus far. We'll see. From what I've seen in Tallahassee so far, I have to ask...who still wishes we got Taggart instead? He may be the next big deal, but right now I believe FAMU got the best Willie in the Capital city ;)!
                         
                        • BMF

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                          C2, agree w/ your takes. I didn't read the whole thread, but my take is in between your (a) and (b). I'm ecstatic Butters is gone and I'm underwhelmed that we could land our top 2/3 coaching targets. But I'm 100% giving Mullen the benefit of the doubt. Honestly, he's a much better hire than Zook, Muschamp or Butters and it's not even close.

                          I'm taking "the jury is still out" approach until he proves otherwise. If we struggle vs. Colorado State next year however, that will be red-flag #1. The UF's of the world shouldn't be going to overtime vs. 3-9 FAU's of the world (like Butters did his first year). Honestly, that was the moment I knew he was in over his head (he had gone 6-0 w/ Grier then the real Butters/Nuss showed their ugly head). If Mullen has an "FAU moment" I'm going to be very concerned. But until then, it'll be a wait and see....
                           

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