What is the reason for Mullen's perceived cap?

[Slevin]

Seriously? Acting like those 9 years dont tell us anything is stupid. Frankly, this conversation is as well. He's the worst head coach in AP history when both teams are ranked. There's no asterisk or footnote. He owns it. Hopefully he does better.

Sure. It tells us with a better program, talent, money, coaching salary pool, prestige, sky’s the limit for Mullen if he can make MSU relevant. Stop comparing MSU to Florida.

 

[GolfinDog]

If you only took Spurrier's record at South Carolina, how would you categorize him as a coach?

A quitter.

 

[Slevin]

Oh yeah, that one time, back in band camp, when they almost did something noteworthy? But they didn’t?
Yeah, I remember.

He acts like it’s this grand accomplishment. Swonkey, give it a rest about 1998 MSU. Bama had Mike fuggin Dubose as coach and won 7 games. LSU was 4-7. Auburn won 3 games. There was zero competition. He never had to go up against three teams who played for national titles during his tenur in the west.

 

[oxrageous]

A quitter.

Still butthurt, eh?

 

[Slevin]

Except for that coach in the 90s who competed for the west title every year and took them to the SECG.

Competes for the West every yeah huh?

1991: 7-5 (4-3 SEC)
1992: 7-5 (4-4 SEC)
1993: 4-5-2 (3-4-1 SEC)
1994: 8-4 (5-3) 3rd In West
1995: 3-8 (1-7 SEC)
1996: 5-6 (3-5 SEC)
1997: 7-4 (4-4 SEC) 4th in West
1998: 8-5 (6-2 SEC) Division champion
1999: 10-2 (6-2 SEC) didn’t win division
2000: 8-4 (4-4 SEC) 4th in Division
2001: 3-8 (2-6 SEC)
2002: 3-9 (0-8 SEC)
2003: 2-10 (1-7 SEC)

He was competitive twice in 13 years. You’re lying straight through your teeth

 

[itsgr82bag8r]

A quitter.

I bet EVERY dwag fan wishes SOS had quit after he owned them for a decade when he was at UF. Let the hate flow....

 

[BMF]

At this point, I can't blame him too much, because we have zero depth at damn near every position, and a high-functioning retard playing QB.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Sure. It tells us with a better program, talent, money, coaching salary pool, prestige, sky’s the limit for Mullen if he can make MSU relevant. Stop comparing MSU to Florida.

How relevant was MSU really under Mullen, at any point do you think they were a threat to take the West? Or were they just another SEC team with a beneficial schedule and a beneficial cross division matchup that allowed them to get to 6 wins and get into an over inflated bowl season?

If Mullen was the coach at another school how would you view his accomplishments at MSU?

 

[Slevin]

How relevant was MSU really under Mullen, at any point do you think they were a threat to take the West? Or were they just another SEC team with a beneficial schedule and a beneficial cross division matchup that allowed them to get to 6 wins and get into an over inflated bowl season?

If Mullen was the coach at another school how would you view his accomplishments at MSU?

You keep doing this. You keep trying to compare a job done in the minors to what someone can do in the majors. If he was at LSU and never won more than 10 games once I’d understand what you’re saying. But he wasn’t. He was at wVanderbilt.

 

[TheDouglas78]

You keep doing this. You keep trying to compare a job done in the minors to what someone can do in the majors. If he was at LSU and never won more than 10 games once I’d understand what you’re saying. But he wasn’t. He was at wVanderbilt.

that's not an answer, that is a deflection. What was Meyers record at Bowling Green and Utah, Spurrier's record at Duke? I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, he is... the difference between elite and good is an elite coach can take a minor and actually perform against a major. Where in Mullen resume do you see that? If he was at MSU for only 3 or 4 years, ok. But at 9 years, that is too much data to ignore.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Competes for the West every yeah huh?

1991: 7-5 (4-3 SEC)
1992: 7-5 (4-4 SEC)
1993: 4-5-2 (3-4-1 SEC)
1994: 8-4 (5-3) 3rd In West
1995: 3-8 (1-7 SEC)
1996: 5-6 (3-5 SEC)
1997: 7-4 (4-4 SEC) 4th in West
1998: 8-5 (6-2 SEC) Division champion
1999: 10-2 (6-2 SEC) didn’t win division
2000: 8-4 (4-4 SEC) 4th in Division
2001: 3-8 (2-6 SEC)
2002: 3-9 (0-8 SEC)
2003: 2-10 (1-7 SEC)

He was competitive twice in 13 years. You’re lying straight through your teeth

So... Mullinz had one single 5-3 season and Jackie Sherrill had three of those seasons. gotchya!

Look, Im REAL happy with what Mullinz has done so far. In fact, there is zero to be critical of, other than a staffing decision and lukewarm recruiting (still in progress so grade incomplete).

It's just silly for some of you to pretend Mullinz did anything extraordinary at Cowbell, other than convince the AD to put four directional schools on the OOC schedule to pad the overall record.

 

[T REX]

If you only took Spurrier's record at South Carolina, how would you categorize him as a coach?

Poor analogy. He was a coach at the Bandits, Duke and UF prior to that. You're better off using Saban at Toledo/MSU. SOS WON the freaking ACC at freaking Duke. Color me impressed by that. Just saying.

 

[Slevin]

that's not an answer, that is a deflection. What was Meyers record at Bowling Green and Utah, Spurrier's record at Duke? I'm not saying he isn't a good coach, he is... the difference between elite and good is an elite coach can take a minor and actually perform against a major. Where in Mullen resume do you see that? If he was at MSU for only 3 or 4 years, ok. But at 9 years, that is too much data to ignore.

No it’s not. I’ve answered you ad nauseam. You think you have data that tells you he will never be more than a 9 win coach. You don’t. It’s literally impossible to compare two different scenarios as if they’re one. You said he can’t beat ranked teams because that’s what he is. You’ve already been proven wrong. You said he won’t beat more talented teams and he’s done it twice this year with a 4 win team.

Spurrier was 7-3-1 and 8-4 at Duke. 6th in the ACC and tied for first in 89. I wonder what his record would look like if he was there 9 years? Do you actually believe they’d be a national title chasing team? And we know what his record was at South Carolina, taking them to unprecedented success. Sounds familiar... but you refuse to look at it objectively. You believe you found some number that tells you he will fail. And if you want to be miserable for the foreseeable future hoping we fire our coach to prove you right you can go straight for it. There’s two sides to sit on, and you chose yours.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Poor analogy. He was a coach at the Bandits, Duke and UF prior to that. You're better off using Saban at Toledo/MSU. SOS WON the freaking ACC at freaking Duke. Color me impressed by that. Just saying.

Im perfectly fine penciling in losses to Trailerbammer though it would be nice if Millinz had managed one or two of those "did more with less" seasons and beat Bammer like Malzahn and Freeze did twice each.

It is the .500 record vs Burp Bielema/Smith Arky, Matt Luke on probation that is the real red flag.

And if you tell me it was talent, then show me the top classes. Mid teens is Cowbell land. Yes, the early signing was good last year, top ten (was it 7?) at that point, but our recruiting has been mehhhhh since we invited Seider to leave.

 

[neteng]

I dont see the point of this thread. Everyone has to categorize people and things as if it tells the story of how it is now. Nothing fits into the categories people want to fit it in no matter how hard they try. There are similar patterns and pieces of the aggregate can fit into categories, but the sum of it never adds up the same.

How about this ... so far, Mullen is trending the program upward but the last few games that upward trend has slowed or maybe even halted. There are plenty of reasons for it and some are obvious like lack of talent in certain areas, some not so great strategic decisions and some very poor execution. So knowing that to probably be something we can all agree on it is obvious we still have plenty of potential to get better.

I trust Mullen and his coaches are smart enough to learn from their strategic blunders though I also recognize that their hands might be tied a bit right now with what strategic moves they can make. All they can do in the meantime is coach up the poor execution as best they can and recruit in some talent to fill the holes. That is what will get us to realize the potential.

Mullen has shown that he definitely can coach players so we should be good there. So that is more potential that we are going to realize. I think he just needs to recruit in some more talent to fill the holes and then we can really realize the potential he truly has.

Edit: Re-reading what I wrote ... and it appears that I categorized it after telling yall to stop categorizing it :D

 

[Swamp Donkey]

And we know what his record was at South Carolina, taking them to unprecedented success.

Yeah .... SOS took Gamecuck talent and beat Trailerbammer after Saban took them to the top.

Again, these are the signs of an elite guy vs a good but not elite guy.

Im not saying things wont change, Im just objecting to overselling that Cowbell resume. If the Cowbell resume were truly elite, he would have been hired away.

Mullinz has always been in the "tough out" category of the nonelite coaches. The ones who get the "good coach" label despite not actually winning anything and really being 7-5 like the guys at Iowa, Iowa State, Vatech, Will Duncecap etc.

I expected us to dominate recruiting again once the team looked better. Having one or two kids in the Fla top 50 is perplexing. I dont know how to read this.

 

[Slevin]

So... Mullinz had one single 5-3 season and Jackie Sherrill had three of those seasons. gotchya!

Look, Im REAL happy with what Mullinz has done so far. In fact, there is zero to be critical of, other than a staffing decision and lukewarm recruiting (still in progress so grade incomplete).

It's just silly for some of you to pretend Mullinz did anything extraordinary at Cowbell, other than convince the AD to put four directional schools on the OOC schedule to pad the overall record.

Never said he blew me away there. I’m just looking MSU objectively for what they are and not running around acting like he should have won national titles at a perennial loser. I’m also not hog tying his tenure here to MSU either. It’s not a comparable scenario and I’m not going to pretend like it is.

 

[TheDouglas78]

No it’s not. I’ve answered you ad nauseam. You think you have data that tells you he will never be more than a 9 win coach. You don’t. It’s literally impossible to compare two different scenarios as if they’re one. You said he can’t beat ranked teams because that’s what he is.

that's not what I said,and you know it... you are doing some byrdman level moving the goalposts now.

You’ve already been proven wrong. You said he won’t beat more talented teams and he’s done it twice this year with a 4 win team.

Did I say he couldn't or it would be infrequent. And do you believe that this was a 4 win team coming into the season, I had it at a 9 or 10 win team with this schedule. But you keep moving those goalposts. Making up your own arguments.

Spurrier was 7-3-1 and 8-4 at Duke. 6th in the ACC and tied for first in 89. I wonder what his record would look like if he was there 9 years? Do you actually believe they’d be a national title chasing team?

He won a conference no one though Duke could win... that's just like Mullen right.... and you are the only one introducing NC talk about Duke... again moving those goalposts.

And we know what his record was at South Carolina, taking them to unprecedented success. Sounds familiar... but you refuse to look at it objectively.

South Carolina at the down side of his career compared to getting into this career ok. I'm actually looking at the numbers objectively, you are the one that gets emotional over it.

You believe you found some number that tells you he will fail. And if you want to be miserable for the foreseeable future hoping we fire our coach to prove you right you can go straight for it. There’s two sides to sit on, and you chose yours.

I believe I said if he won some national titles I would gladly eat my crow. Believe some numbers, I look at all the numbers, and the context of those numbers. What do the numbers tell you? What does the largest drop in winning percentage between Out of conference and conference schedule in the history of MSU tell you? What does one winning conference record tell you? I know MSU is a poor lonely school who doesn't belong in the SEC, the way you talk about it, it doesn't belong in FBS football.

You are too busy looking for confirmation bias then looking at the raw data.

 

[T REX]

a 4 win team.

You think that the 4-7 was a product of talent or coaching? You'll say both probably but which MORE than the other?

Hell, I think he's doing a great job and I have said as much multiple times. It's the outrageous claims that we've found our guy to lead us to titles that I think is whacked out and premature. There's no data besides HOPE that says he is that guy...yet. Lots of overselling Mullen as the savior right now and we just got rocked by UGA. We also lost to UK. Nice win vs LSU. PROGRESS more than anything. There's nothing wrong with any of that but claiming he's the guy after 8 games is laughable. ****. Just enjoy the ride.

 

[T REX]

Never said he blew me away there. I’m just looking MSU objectively for what they are and not running around acting like he should have won national titles at a perennial loser. I’m also not hog tying his tenure here to MSU either. It’s not a comparable scenario and I’m not going to pretend like it is.

How about just one SEC West? One. I don't think I've seen anyone ask for titles at MSU. I think a few wins vs the top teams would make me more of a believer. Instead, we have whack jobs dismissing/excusing all the bad and only propping up the good. Where's the logic in that?