3-3-5 Defense

[gatorplank]

So, I've been doing a little reading about this. Apparently, the 3-3-5 is kind of like the triple option in that few major college football teams run it. It is something that smaller schools that need an advantage in the X's and O's try to run. SDSU is most well known for the defense, and they've been running it a long time. They've built a Mountain West dynasty of sorts by running this defense. Other schools more recently such as Arizona State, Iowa State (under Campbell), Mississippi State (under Leach's new DC who was formerly at SDSU), and Michigan (Don Brown) have tried running it. It is apparently really good at disguising coverages because it is hard to know what the "Aztec" LB/safety hybrid in the middle is going to do, and you don't know where the 4th rusher is going to come from and whether or not the Aztec is going to be in the box or not. The two OLB's are kind of like bucks (LB/DE hybrids) because they blitz a lot, so it could be a decent defense for Florida given the number of bucks Grantham recruited and lack of good DL recruiting we've seen throughout the years at UF.

With the rise of spread offenses why haven't more Power 5 teams given this defense a look? What are the downsides of UF grabbing a DC who runs a scheme like this?

 

[Swamp Donkey]

It is garbage.

Ever watched teams scoring 60 on WVU? 3-3-5.

offensive adaptation to defensive schemes are either odd front or even front for the most part. in general you block a 3-4 the same way you block a 5-2.... or a 3-3-5. It isn't really a big deal. plenty of the Little League programs run this defense.

same things like you don't know which linebacker is going to blitz it's just a personal matter. you can only do it in a 335 or a 3-4 if some of your linebackers are not liabilities in coverage. put another way, you could do the same thing with a 3-4 if you have good linebackers who can blitz or cover at both or all the positions. if you have ****ty recruiting calling at a 335 doesn't fix that some of your linebackers are in conflict at one of the other skill set.

 

[NVGator]

@gatorplank , I love you Bud but SDSU hasn’t built any type of dynasty. They run schit defense. It’s a scheme for upper grade high school football. Sorry, don’t know how else to put it to you.

 

[gatorplank]

@gatorplank , I love you Bud but SDSU hasn’t built any type of dynasty. They run schit defense. It’s a scheme for upper grade high school football. Sorry, don’t know how else to put it to you.

SDSU won 3 Mountain West conference championships and won their division two other years in a 9 year span under Rocky Long who ran this defense. I wouldn't call that an NCAA dynasty, but we would be more than pleased if the Gators played that well in the SEC over a 9 year period.

Also look at how they are doing under Kurt Mattix the past two years who also runs this defense:

2021 Team Defense | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Average Yards Per Play:

2009: 54th
2010: 24th
2011: 80th
2012: 35th
2013: 35th
2014: 22nd
2015: 12th
2016: 12th
2017: 30th
2018: 32nd
2019: 9th
2020: 2nd
2021: 3rd

SDSU has had 3 straight top 10 defenses running the 3-3-5. And SDSU went almost a decade of never having a defense ranked below 35th in the NCAA in yards per play. And they've been running the 3-3-5 since 2009.

 

[NVGator]

SDSU won 3 Mountain West conference championships and won their division two other years in a 9 year span under Rocky Long who ran this defense. I wouldn't call that an NCAA dynasty, but we would be more than pleased if the Gators played that well in the SEC over a 9 year period.

Also look at how they are doing under Kurt Mattix the past two years who also runs this defense:

2021 Team Defense | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Average Yards Per Play:

2009: 54th
2010: 24th
2011: 80th
2012: 35th
2013: 35th
2014: 22nd
2015: 12th
2016: 12th
2017: 30th
2018: 32nd
2019: 9th
2020: 2nd
2021: 3rd

SDSU has had 3 straight top 10 defenses running the 3-3-5. And SDSU went almost a decade of never having a defense ranked below 35th in the NCAA in yards per play. And they've been running the 3-3-5 since 2009.

There’s a reason Rocky Long went from HC at UNM to DC at SDSU to HC at SDSU to back to DC at UNM. That defense SUCKS.

 

[gatorplank]

There’s a reason Rocky Long went from HC at UNM to DC at SDSU to HC at SDSU to back to DC at UNM. That defense SUCKS.

He retired from SDSU as the winningest coach in the history of the Mountain West Conference. He also beat Urban Meyer head to head when he was at Utah. He's their Spurrier, and he wanted to be a DC at his alma mater in retirement.

Also, New Mexico is ranked 26th in yards per play this year. So they are doing something right.

 

[NVGator]

I love how someone is trying to educate me on MWC team stats. I find it amusing.

 

[NVGator]

Per Plank, we run a 3-3-5. And we run Chris Ault’s Pistol formation. We’ve missed out on the trend setting MWC.

 

[gatorplank]

It is garbage.

Ever watched teams scoring 60 on WVU? 3-3-5.

offensive adaptation to defensive schemes are either odd front or even front for the most part. in general you block a 3-4 the same way you block a 5-2.... or a 3-3-5. It isn't really a big deal. plenty of the Little League programs run this defense.

same things like you don't know which linebacker is going to blitz it's just a personal matter. you can only do it in a 335 or a 3-4 if some of your linebackers are not liabilities in coverage. put another way, you could do the same thing with a 3-4 if you have good linebackers who can blitz or cover at both or all the positions. if you have ****ty recruiting calling at a 335 doesn't fix that some of your linebackers are in conflict at one of the other skill set.

Serious question: Do you think the 4-3 sucks because of Grantham?

 

[CGgater]

Serious question: Do you think the 4-3 sucks because of Grantham?

4-3 has nothing to to do with it. Granthem sucks when defending against legit teams.

Edit: and ky, scar…

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Serious question: Do you think the 4-3 sucks because of Grantham?

It isnt a 4-3.


Also I didn't realize we had San Diego State Tortillas or whatever they are alumni contingent here.

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

 

[gatorplank]

Origin story of the 3-3-5 defense employed by ASU and SDSU (247sports.com)

 

[soflagator]

I love how someone is trying to educate me on MWC team stats. I find it amusing.

Sorry, facts are facts. You also know nothing about desert climate, and your pavers suck.

 

[gatorplank]

It isnt a 4-3.


Also I didn't realize we had San Diego State Tortillas or whatever they are alumni contingent here.

Not a tortilla or a quesadilla, but the 3-3-5 has worked some places and has not worked other places. Not all DC's are equal with every scheme. Some are really bad with their scheme (Grantham), and others are better with the same scheme.

The biggest issues I can think of with the 3-3-5 are two fold:

1. To recruit well you have to sell players on playing in a scheme that will translate well to the NFL. That is probably why it hasn't been tried at a top 10 program as the base defense. Also Rich Rod probably tanked its popularity when it put up pretty pathetic results at Michigan in the Big 10. Since then it has been more of something you splash as one look among many others. That is how Don Brown used it at Michigan based on what I've read.

2. The 3-3-5 has traditionally been employed with smaller players, and has therefore been susceptible to a smash mouth power running game. So that probably scared off a lot of teams in the past. With the offensive renaissance in the SEC where few teams play that style of ball anymore it could actually work in the modern college football meta. That is probably why Leach went out and got a SDSU guy as his DC. It is a gamble, and only time will prove if he is right.

 

[Spurdog98]

We can run a 5-4-4 and it won't matter if we don't get some DL and LB's that are at least to big to play Rec football.

 

[AnObfuscator]

Nah, it's nothing like the triple option. Every team runs at least a little nickel.

The whole concept of base defense is kind of obsolete anyway. Everyone good is running mixed fronts and has for a while.

 

[GatorJB]

Not a tortilla or a quesadilla, but the 3-3-5 has worked some places and has not worked other places. Not all DC's are equal with every scheme. Some are really bad with their scheme (Grantham), and others are better with the same scheme.

The biggest issues I can think of with the 3-3-5 are two fold:

1. To recruit well you have to sell players on playing in a scheme that will translate well to the NFL. That is probably why it hasn't been tried at a top 10 program as the base defense. Also Rich Rod probably tanked its popularity when it put up pretty pathetic results at Michigan in the Big 10. Since then it has been more of something you splash as one look among many others. That is how Don Brown used it at Michigan based on what I've read.

2. The 3-3-5 has traditionally been employed with smaller players, and has therefore been susceptible to a smash mouth power running game. So that probably scared off a lot of teams in the past. With the offensive renaissance in the SEC where few teams play that style of ball anymore it could actually work in the modern college football meta. That is probably why Leach went out and got a SDSU guy as his DC. It is a gamble, and only time will prove if he is right.

Kirby Smart would think it was Christmas morning if we showed up in Jacksonville with a 3-3-5.

 

[gatorplank]

Kirby Smart would think it was Christmas morning if we showed up in Jacksonville with a 3-3-5.

I think an interesting case study is Mississippi State last year. They held UGA to 8 rushing yards at 0.3 rushing yards per attempt with the 3-3-5, and the game was tied 24-24 going into the 4th quarter. And that is with MSU level talent. If MSU had better talent in the secondary they could have been a lockdown defense last year.

MSU was also one of two teams to limit Bama to under 40 points of offense in 2020. From the beginning of the 2nd quarter to the end of the 4th quarter Bama only scored two offensive touchdowns.

Mississippi State vs. Georgia - Team Statistics - November 21, 2020 - ESPN

Mississippi State vs. Alabama - Game Summary - October 31, 2020 - ESPN

Another interesting fact...two years running MSU ranks 3rd in the SEC behind Bama and UGA in yards per rush average.

 

[maheo30]

I'm not an Xs and Os guy. But, I can't fathom a 3-3-5 defense going up against UGly's o-line and power run game. The bloody massacre that would occur.