Can McElwain recruit elite defense? (article)

[BMF]

Well, it sounds like some on this site aren't the only ones that's noticed our D recruiting has fallen off. ("No it hasn't!" - say the pumpers!):

Can Jim McElwain successfully recruit an elite defense?

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/florida-football/can-jim-mcelwain-successfully-recruit-defense/

The performances of Antonio Callaway, Luke Del Rio and Kyle Trask have led many Gators fans to trust coach Jim McElwain over the recruiting rankings when it comes to offensive skill positions. Before becoming a head coach, McElwain coached offense for 27 years as a position coach and coordinator. If McElwain likes a quarterback’s mechanics or a receiver’s route running more than the recruiting experts, the prospect is likely underrated.

But what about the other side of the ball? A coach’s ability to recruit positions outside of his expertise can make all the difference, and McElwain’s predecessors are Exhibit A.

Urban Meyer’s background included coaching receivers and the spread option offense, but he also was an ace at landing five-star defensive talent like Carlos Dunlap, Will Hill, Jelani Jenkins, Matt Elam, Dominique Easley and Sharrif Floyd. His successor, Will Muschamp, was a veteran defensive coordinator before becoming the Gators’ head coach. Muschamp’s inability to sign SEC-caliber quarterbacks in 2012 and 2013 set the first-time coach up for a failed tenure that ended in the 2014 season. He also left McElwain a wide receiver depth chart of one playmaker, Demarcus Robinson, and an abundance of benchwarmers.

So far, through two years, McElwain’s recruiting tally of those who have signed letters-of-intent for Florida:

Offense: 1 five-star, 8 four-star, 15 three-star
Defense: 1 five-star, 4 four-star, 16 three-star

It’s obviously not a problem in 2016, as Florida is again expected to have one of the best defenses in the SEC. But in 2017, 2018 and beyond, can the defense survive against the SEC East, LSU and FSU by signing 76 percent three-star prospects? It’s not impossible, but it’s not easy.

LSU and FSU are particularly interesting comparisons, as both have head coaches with offensive backgrounds like McElwain. At LSU, Les Miles signed 12 defensive signees in 2016, and 10 ranked four or five stars. FSU coach Jimbo Fisher’s most recent class also had 12 defensive prospects, including 10 four- or five-star recruits. Meanwhile, just four of the Gators’ 12 defensive recruits graded four-stars; the other eight received three stars.

There will be always be a few four-star and five-star busts, and three-star signees like Jarrad Davis and Quincy Wilson who end up being diamonds in the rough. In a big picture sense though, the recruiting rankings tend to get it right. As SB Nation recruiting editor Bud Elliott notes, four and five-star recruits make up only 8 percent of Division I prospects, but 70 percent of the first-round picks in the 2016 NFL Draft. Put simply, to get the best talent, you have to sign the blue chippers.

If a talent gap develops with annual opponents like the Tigers and Noles, it could prove particularly challenging for the Gators coaches. McElwain’s defensive assistants – Geoff Collins (DC), Chris Rumph (DL), Randy Shannon (LB) and Torrian Gray (DB) – all have impressive resumes in their areas of expertise, but it’s asking a lot of them to develop a majority of three-star signees into overachievers for Florida to stay on a level playing field with its rivals.

All above recruiting rankings cited are 247Sports composite

 

[Bernardo de la Paz]

Sounds about right.

 

[alcoholica]

Maybe they should be focusing on the coaches recruiting the defensive side as well.

 

[Rentmoneygawd]

Thanks for the post...

Can we judge off of 1 "full" (note the keyword full there) recruiting cycle?

I think that's a fair question.

 

[gatormandan]

I havent seen any pumpers say we are fine at recruiting. I have said as have others that we are hoping to see better and I know Mac knows our needs. I think we see improvement this cycle. If not, it will have to be addressed.

 

[GatorJ]

Well, it sounds like some on this site aren't the only ones that's noticed our D recruiting has fallen off. ("No it hasn't!" - say the pumpers!):

Can Jim McElwain successfully recruit an elite defense?

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/florida-football/can-jim-mcelwain-successfully-recruit-defense/

The performances of Antonio Callaway, Luke Del Rio and Kyle Trask have led many Gators fans to trust coach Jim McElwain over the recruiting rankings when it comes to offensive skill positions. Before becoming a head coach, McElwain coached offense for 27 years as a position coach and coordinator. If McElwain likes a quarterback’s mechanics or a receiver’s route running more than the recruiting experts, the prospect is likely underrated.

But what about the other side of the ball? A coach’s ability to recruit positions outside of his expertise can make all the difference, and McElwain’s predecessors are Exhibit A.

Urban Meyer’s background included coaching receivers and the spread option offense, but he also was an ace at landing five-star defensive talent like Carlos Dunlap, Will Hill, Jelani Jenkins, Matt Elam, Dominique Easley and Sharrif Floyd. His successor, Will Muschamp, was a veteran defensive coordinator before becoming the Gators’ head coach. Muschamp’s inability to sign SEC-caliber quarterbacks in 2012 and 2013 set the first-time coach up for a failed tenure that ended in the 2014 season. He also left McElwain a wide receiver depth chart of one playmaker, Demarcus Robinson, and an abundance of benchwarmers.

So far, through two years, McElwain’s recruiting tally of those who have signed letters-of-intent for Florida:

Offense: 1 five-star, 8 four-star, 15 three-star
Defense: 1 five-star, 4 four-star, 16 three-star

It’s obviously not a problem in 2016, as Florida is again expected to have one of the best defenses in the SEC. But in 2017, 2018 and beyond, can the defense survive against the SEC East, LSU and FSU by signing 76 percent three-star prospects? It’s not impossible, but it’s not easy.

LSU and FSU are particularly interesting comparisons, as both have head coaches with offensive backgrounds like McElwain. At LSU, Les Miles signed 12 defensive signees in 2016, and 10 ranked four or five stars. FSU coach Jimbo Fisher’s most recent class also had 12 defensive prospects, including 10 four- or five-star recruits. Meanwhile, just four of the Gators’ 12 defensive recruits graded four-stars; the other eight received three stars.

There will be always be a few four-star and five-star busts, and three-star signees like Jarrad Davis and Quincy Wilson who end up being diamonds in the rough. In a big picture sense though, the recruiting rankings tend to get it right. As SB Nation recruiting editor Bud Elliott notes, four and five-star recruits make up only 8 percent of Division I prospects, but 70 percent of the first-round picks in the 2016 NFL Draft. Put simply, to get the best talent, you have to sign the blue chippers.

If a talent gap develops with annual opponents like the Tigers and Noles, it could prove particularly challenging for the Gators coaches. McElwain’s defensive assistants – Geoff Collins (DC), Chris Rumph (DL), Randy Shannon (LB) and Torrian Gray (DB) – all have impressive resumes in their areas of expertise, but it’s asking a lot of them to develop a majority of three-star signees into overachievers for Florida to stay on a level playing field with its rivals.

All above recruiting rankings cited are 247Sports composite

Quincy Wilson a three-star? He was one of the top cornerbacks in the nation and routinely shut down top-tier wide receivers down south.

Decent article with an utterly ridiculous statement.

 

[rogdochar]

Like gatman says : Every GC trawler says Mac needs to pull the net tighter. Back in the day (Meyer's days)
how many D players came because of one rough-blasterd player = Tebow, who 'conflagrated' both O & D ?
Tim was an Eveready Battery for winners.Nobody replaced him ... problemly never will.

To me our DC & D-crew have to be the dynamost at grabbing defensive recruits. Some dynamic-blast of
positive "on-field" on TV D-vitality has to announce its gatorself before we turn recruits away from easy
acadanemic FSU. 'til we do that, winning resoundingly won't send the siren call and Mac's tenure will fall.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

To be fair, the stats for defensive recruits really arent MUCH worse than offense. Averaging 4.5 bluechippers on offense and 2.5 on defense. Both are piss poor.

 

[rogdochar]

To be fair, the stats for defensive recruits really arent MUCH worse than offense. Averaging 4.5 bluechippers on offense and 2.5 on defense. Both are piss poor.

Sure, but we need some orange & blue chippers.

 

[TLB]

First, anyone who reads SDS (like myself) knows they are largely opinion pieces and there is no reporting going on. If the Sun is a 0.5 on the 0-10 scale, SDS is likely a 4 mostly for churning out material in the off season, but they still lack any chops to actual writing (limited sources that are often other SDS articles, frequently reaching in making a click rather than a point). I read it every day, and this is better than most, but still in the SDS realm.

LSU and FSU are particularly interesting comparisons, as both have head coaches with offensive backgrounds like McElwain. At LSU, Les Miles signed 12 defensive signees in 2016, and 10 ranked four or five stars. FSU coach Jimbo Fisher’s most recent class also had 12 defensive prospects, including 10 four- or five-star recruits. Meanwhile, just four of the Gators’ 12 defensive recruits graded four-stars; the other eight received three stars.

Ok, so Miles and Fisher both come from offensive backgrounds like Mac and that's where he pins his comparison. There is no mention of the fact that Les has been a HBC since 2001 and at LSU (recruiting SEC region) since 2005, nor that Fisher has been a HBC since 2010 and recruiting this area since 2000. No mention of the recent success both schools have had compared to UF and how that plays into a recruit's perception of the programs.

I can't argue our numbers, they are what they are. But the article is not complete in what it presents or how it goes about it. Yes, we need to do better. I just don't agree with his choice of comparison.

 

[soflagator]

Maybe they should be focusing on the coaches recruiting the defensive side as well.

I certainly hope you're not referring to "Stillwell Angel" over here.

 

[alcoholica]

I certainly hope you're not referring to "Stillwell Angel" over here.

 

[Marianna-FL_Gator]

This is what happens when your AD/University chooses to hire "on the cheap" instead of paying what it takes to bring in elite coaches/recruiters. I guess we've decided to become FAU because that's where we're headed if things don't turn around in recruiting THIS YEAR! Anything less than a top 5 class this cycle is unacceptable.

Mac was handed a shi*ty hand but this is the University of Florida and this type of recruiting won't cut it here. He better get rid of the "dead weight recruiters"(Summers/Nord/Collins/Shannon) before he's looking for a job with them.

 

[alcoholica]

If Shannon can continue to coach LB's up like he has with Johnson, I'm fine with him. He even had some of the walk-ons surprising me with their play in the spring game. Not that we can count on them, but to see the kids fire into the gaps was nice to see. I don't think he can just flip a kid. I think Shannon needs time to build the one on one relationships and to have a product help sell itself. Not an ace recruiter, but I wouldn't call him dead weight, especially they way he's been coaching the LBs. Also, he pulled in Reese and Putu at the last minute and Joseph. Reese looks ready to contribute, Moon has a ton of potential but is a year or two away, and Joseph caught a lot of late attention. We could have done better, but it wasn't a bad LB class, just not what we wanted.

Summers has been a solid coach. I doubt he is ever going to recruit at a high level. I put him in the Shannon class. Good development, but not lights out recruiting. They'll both start pulling bigger names once we can do something consistent. He only brought in 3 OL this class but the last class was pretty big. I think we should have gotten one more, but I think we got 3 good ones.

Nord has done an ok job with coverage and returns. TE's were nice last year and through the spring. I don't think he did anything special, and I haven't heard of any great recruiting stories about him. Easily replaceable.

Rumph was actually the disappointment for me in recruiting. He is responsible for the DL and he only had one non-qualifier on board for DT. We only brought Ivie in the prior year, but that wasn't Rumph. Zuniga was supposed to grow into a DT, but it looks like he's lost 15 lbs since he's been here. Rumph better get a couple JUCO's to go along with Scott. His DE recruiting seems hit and miss as well.

Callahan was trash. Gray will be worlds better.

Skipper and Dixon are the wild cards. I think the RB's and WR's played well enough considering the OL play. They need to step up or hit the road. They both seemed to recruit well.

Per 247, These are the 2016 recruits the coaches are credited with.

Shannon: Hammond, Taylor (S), Massey, Joseph, Putu, Reese, Pineiro, and McWilliams
Nord: Swain, Heggie, Pineiro
Skipper: Thompson, Wells, Moon, Perine
Rumph: Clayton, Smith, Polite, Burnett
Dixon: Cleveland, Gardner, Swain, Hammond, McWilliams
Summers: Heggie, Taylor (OG), Forsythe
Callahan: Gardner, Burnett, Lenton

Overall, we just need to play better on the field. After Treon went in we fell in performance, and recruiting followed. I don't want to see a lot of early commits. I think once we hit the field, we'll be able to attract bigger fish. If we fall on the field, we'll do worse than 14.

 

[TN G8tr]

Always take some skepticism when reading SDS. It's just more of an opinion piece most of the time. The numbers aren't too much different in comparison as stated already. I am sure that Mac is happy with how he is been doing with recruiting. But I would think if anyone asked him if he is content the answer would be no. Everyone knew after the Asshat Mustank left the stench would be hard to get rid of. He's made strides on both sides of the ball but he needs to do much more. I would expect to see a trend more on the offensive side due to the last regime. But we all know winning will help in that area.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

Good, balanced article on recruiting. Thanks for posting.

 

[T REX]

Well, it sounds like some on this site aren't the only ones that's noticed our D recruiting has fallen off. ("No it hasn't!" - say the pumpers!):

Can Jim McElwain successfully recruit an elite defense?

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/florida-football/can-jim-mcelwain-successfully-recruit-defense/

The performances of Antonio Callaway, Luke Del Rio and Kyle Trask have led many Gators fans to trust coach Jim McElwain over the recruiting rankings when it comes to offensive skill positions. Before becoming a head coach, McElwain coached offense for 27 years as a position coach and coordinator. If McElwain likes a quarterback’s mechanics or a receiver’s route running more than the recruiting experts, the prospect is likely underrated.

But what about the other side of the ball? A coach’s ability to recruit positions outside of his expertise can make all the difference, and McElwain’s predecessors are Exhibit A.

Urban Meyer’s background included coaching receivers and the spread option offense, but he also was an ace at landing five-star defensive talent like Carlos Dunlap, Will Hill, Jelani Jenkins, Matt Elam, Dominique Easley and Sharrif Floyd. His successor, Will Muschamp, was a veteran defensive coordinator before becoming the Gators’ head coach. Muschamp’s inability to sign SEC-caliber quarterbacks in 2012 and 2013 set the first-time coach up for a failed tenure that ended in the 2014 season. He also left McElwain a wide receiver depth chart of one playmaker, Demarcus Robinson, and an abundance of benchwarmers.

So far, through two years, McElwain’s recruiting tally of those who have signed letters-of-intent for Florida:

Offense: 1 five-star, 8 four-star, 15 three-star
Defense: 1 five-star, 4 four-star, 16 three-star

It’s obviously not a problem in 2016, as Florida is again expected to have one of the best defenses in the SEC. But in 2017, 2018 and beyond, can the defense survive against the SEC East, LSU and FSU by signing 76 percent three-star prospects? It’s not impossible, but it’s not easy.

LSU and FSU are particularly interesting comparisons, as both have head coaches with offensive backgrounds like McElwain. At LSU, Les Miles signed 12 defensive signees in 2016, and 10 ranked four or five stars. FSU coach Jimbo Fisher’s most recent class also had 12 defensive prospects, including 10 four- or five-star recruits. Meanwhile, just four of the Gators’ 12 defensive recruits graded four-stars; the other eight received three stars.

There will be always be a few four-star and five-star busts, and three-star signees like Jarrad Davis and Quincy Wilson who end up being diamonds in the rough. In a big picture sense though, the recruiting rankings tend to get it right. As SB Nation recruiting editor Bud Elliott notes, four and five-star recruits make up only 8 percent of Division I prospects, but 70 percent of the first-round picks in the 2016 NFL Draft. Put simply, to get the best talent, you have to sign the blue chippers.

If a talent gap develops with annual opponents like the Tigers and Noles, it could prove particularly challenging for the Gators coaches. McElwain’s defensive assistants – Geoff Collins (DC), Chris Rumph (DL), Randy Shannon (LB) and Torrian Gray (DB) – all have impressive resumes in their areas of expertise, but it’s asking a lot of them to develop a majority of three-star signees into overachievers for Florida to stay on a level playing field with its rivals.

All above recruiting rankings cited are 247Sports composite

Well...well...well...I hope the pumpers will finally see that it is a major problem going forward.

 

[CGgater]

Well...well...well...I hope the pumpers will finally see that it is a major problem going forward.

No argument from this pumper. The article provides a relatively accurate big-picture perspective - one that I've never argued against. It is the absolute statements made (he's a 3*, so he sucks) without ever giving a kid the chance to prove himself that I disagree with. We've all seen busts and sleepers, so I prefer to let a kid show it on the field before I form an opinion.

And yes, I'd rather see Mac recruit like urbie did (before the entitlement set in).

 

[CGgater]

If it makes anyone feel better, we lead for 4* DE Z Carter.

https://www.seccountry.com/florida/...er-releases-his-final-four-schools-on-twitter

 

[Rentmoneygawd]

can you guys name one head coach for UF that you did not have 1 complaint about?