Crypto currency

Discussion in 'Business, Investing & Finance' started by Gator By Marriage, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. Concrete Helmet

    Concrete Helmet Hook, Line, and Sinker
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    I like the look of this. With the limits placed on annual contributions to an IRA I could fore see potentially much more upside being in Metals and Crypto from a growth standpoint. Hell even splitting the contribution between a tradition IRA and a Roth set up for Crypto/Metals would help manage risk from either side while giving you a way to capture good gains over time. I would be interested to know how much 3k invested in BTC and Gold starting around 2007 would be worth today? Man talk about shoulda/coulda/woulda :lol:
     
    • UFHealthGator

      UFHealthGator Well-Known Member
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      I had the same thoughts about crypto until about a year ago, but today I disagree with most of those points.

      Most cryptos, especially bitcoin, are terrible for use in criminal activity. They are public ledgers where all transactions are public and recorded on chain. Yes you can have pseudonymous wallets, but if criminals want to exchange BTC for fiat or realize their gains, they will have to convert to cash and that can be very tricky. In fact by far the most dominant untraceable currency for criminal activity is plain ol physical US dollars.

      The False Narrative Of Bitcoin’s Role In Illicit Activity

      This point is true. Keep in mind we printed nearly 30-40% of all our USD ever created in just the past 18 months. We could soon be one of those countries.

      There are definitely different investors in Crypto just like there are different investors in the Stock market. Certainly a lot of it is speculative.

      Now as to the point of "create value" the argument is that there is tremendous amount of "value" created by crypto currencies, especially the top ones like Ethereum and Bitcoin.

      Just compare Ethereum vs Paypal for example. Paypal did 936 billion USD in total transactions in 2020. Ethereum in Q1 of 2021 alone settled 1.5 trillion USD in transactions. Ethereum alone has about 160 million users and growing every day. Compare this to paypal with about 350 million users. Market cap of Paypal is about 350billion USD.

      If I told you that today, I created a company that settles 1.5 trillion dollars in transactions in 3 months, has 160 million users, and is the foundation for decentralized finance, do you really think that the value of this network is zero? We are finally seeing an internet moment where the banks are being truly but slowly replaced by some crypto currency applications, and there is tremendous upside to go. Now look at the market cap of Banking industry vs crypto currency and you'll see the value. Just my 2 cents on the whole "it has no value" argument.


      Media is always late to the party. They don't tell you to invest in it when it was crashing in March of 2020, when Bitcoin was trading for 5k and Eth for a few hundred dollars. I still think if anything they are hostile to crypto currency overall.

      I completely agree with the first part. Everyone needs a plan with objectives. I invest in Real estate, total market broad ETFs/ Mutual funds and allocate about 10% to Crypto. I believe we have come to a point in time where it is unlikely for crypto currency to disappear. Could it go through an enormous crash like the early internet dot com bubble? Absolutely. But in 10 years + I believe the Crypto and digital assets are here to stay. If you go by this thesis, then you can invest in crypto currency using dollar cost averaging approach during the ups and downs, but over all the trend in the next 10 years should trend up over time. My speculation is that it will outperform the Stock market and real estate market in the long run. You really need a long time horizon in this just like any other investment. If you follow this, it should be less speculative on day to day moves and more of an investment thesis.
       
      #382 UFHealthGator, Jul 6, 2021
      Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
      • ChiefGator

        ChiefGator A Chief and a Gator, Master of the Ignore list!!!!
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        Value to me is less than zero because that investment could have produced something either physical goods, training for people or many other things. Speculation in any currency is just that. Now in the past my employer bought futures for copper, that they would need to use not on speculation that a profit might happen.

        Now I would ban all these sorts of things including puts and shorts, but having no power that won't be happening.

        Thanks for the reply it did have some things that I had either not considered or might be overstatements. I seem to recall the last two hacks being paid in bit coin but might be wrong.
         
      • UFHealthGator

        UFHealthGator Well-Known Member
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        I was skeptical like you regarding their value before, but you have to actually use bitcoin and decentralized finance to realize the value they bring to the table. Nothing like having asset stored on a hardware wallet that only you have access to and can be transferred near instantly to anyone at any time without any third party interference.

        Either way, we can debate all day what their value is, but Bitcoin has not been valued below zero since its inception 11 years ago, and over the past decade it continued to set higher highs and higher lows despite its booms and busts, so the free market so far clearly sees value where you see none. I learned not to outsmart the free market and just reap its benefits.
         
        #384 UFHealthGator, Jul 7, 2021
        Last edited: Jul 7, 2021
        • Gator By Marriage

          Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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          BTC started in 2009 (for trading anyway) and languished for quite a while under $.10. As recently as 2011 they were still under a dollar, but closed the year over $5. It wasn’t until 2013 it got over $100.
          On the “shoulda, woulda, coulda” front, if you had invested $2.5K in BTC in January 2009, you would have over a billion dollars worth today.
           
          • Concrete Helmet

            Concrete Helmet Hook, Line, and Sinker
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            Yup but it would be a moot point since until recently you couldn't have put BTC in an IRA....It is also noteworthy that the reason I mentioned 2007 was that Gold has more than doubled in value since then but still pales in comparison to the gains of BTC....
             
            • Concrete Helmet

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              It's easy to bash BC or other Cryptos while they're down half of their high but there isn't a person(myself included)that doesn't wish they had put 5-10K into it a year ago or even longer. It will come back even if it takes a while.
               
              • ChiefGator

                ChiefGator A Chief and a Gator, Master of the Ignore list!!!!
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                Quite true or avoid them. It is not say crypto currencies that I don't use. Gold, silver, speculation in commodities, and many other things.

                Thanks for an alternative point of view, I will need to share your post with my wife who asked what bitcoin was good for recently and I probably did not adequately answer her.
                 
                • Gator By Marriage

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                  If you gave me a billion dollars, but said I had to pay the taxes, my response would be "no problem."
                   
                • Concrete Helmet

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                  I'd at least b!tch and moan a little under my breath....:lol:
                   
                  • Gator By Marriage

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                    Like most everybody, I despised looking at my earnings statement every two weeks and thinking about how many hours I worked for the government. In the case of the BTC discussion however, had I really bought $25K worth at $.08 per and sold it when it was at $60K, I wouldn't bytch at all about having to give so much to them. I'd be so busy laughing about the money for nothing (and of course the requisite chicks [not quite] for free) that I'd definitely have a "whatever" attitude about how big a bite Uncle took.
                     
                    • BMF

                      BMF Bad Mother....
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                    • BMF

                      BMF Bad Mother....
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                      BTC under $31k this morning.....
                       
                    • BMF

                      BMF Bad Mother....
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                      BTC is under $30k this morning. I'm at 25.03%!!
                       
                    • PhD Gator

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                      Where are you guys buying your crypto? I'm considering dabbling a bit, but haven't decided where I want to make my purchases. What were the reasons you chose where you are buying?
                       
                    • BMF

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                      I buy on Blockfi. The only thing I don't like about it is there's no 'dollar-cost' averaging feature. They charge a fee to buy, so you don't get it for exactly what the current cost is. IMO, this is a good time to get into BTC w/ it under $30k. I've said for a while if it drops below $25k I'll buy the whole coin - I'm at 25% of one BTC now, so at $25k I guess I'd have to buy $17.5+k to get there.
                       
                    • Egor's Assistant

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                      I bought some on Paypal just because it was so easy, and I already had an account. At the moment all you can do with it is buy and hold (which is also good for me.).
                       
                      • Swamp Donkey

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                        Are chicks ever really free?
                         
                        • Gator By Marriage

                          Gator By Marriage A convert to Gatorism
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                          Not for me, but then I was never a rock star.
                           
                        • UFHealthGator

                          UFHealthGator Well-Known Member
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                          Dont buy on paypal. The fees are outrageous and they don't allow for withdrawals. They might allow it in the future, but Bitcoin self custody is its best feature if you ever want to consider it.

                          I stopped buying on exchanges and I am now dollar cost averaging inside my roth IRA. I don't have self custody on it but the tax advantages are way too good. Hopefully uncle sam does not pull a fast one and figure out a way to charge me capital gains taxes on it.
                           
                          #400 UFHealthGator, Jul 20, 2021
                          Last edited: Jul 20, 2021

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