Eagles take Bradford, Sanchez, Barkley and Tebow into Camp....no Mariota

[TheDouglas78]

That's more than I expected, but I still have a difficult time believing that he can get through this season injury free.

I would doubt it. Like I said, I didn't think he completed a single season. The Eagles will need to carry at least 3 quarterbacks into the season.

 

[PastyStoole]

Maybe the Colts should have just cut Manning after all those picks.

They would've saved themselves a lot of heartbreaks.

 

[alcoholica]

How can you judge Tebow's completion percentage on his first 10 or 15 starts in the NFL? I always loved this theory that there's just no way he'd ever improve. What you saw is what you get - forever.

I wish there was an easy way to find out the number of drops his receivers had. It seams like they were always dropping his passes.

 

[TheDouglas78]

I wish there was an easy way to find out the number of drops his receivers had. It seams like they were always dropping his passes.

drops is an NFL held stat, it's out there.

For all of 2011 the first receiver on the list 28th overall in drops.

D. Thomas 6
L Ball 5
E. Royal 5
B. Lloyd 5 (traded before the 5th game of the season)
E. Decker 4
K Moreno 2
Willis 2
J. Johnson 2

I haven't found game by game breakdown other the 2011 Bears game, which had 4 dropped passes.

 

[alcoholica]

drops is an NFL held stat, it's out there.

For all of 2011 the first receiver on the list 28th overall in drops.

D. Thomas 6
L Ball 5
E. Royal 5
B. Lloyd 5 (traded before the 5th game of the season)
E. Decker 4
K Moreno 2
Willis 2
J. Johnson 2

I haven't found game by game breakdown other the 2011 Bears game, which had 4 dropped passes.

So take out Lloyd, and you have 30 drops. If those are caught his completion % is 57.56%. If they catch half those passes, his completions % is 52.03. From what I recall of that season, they should have caught at least half those passes. Still not stellar numbers, but not bad for basically a rookie with a average at best OLine

 

[TheDouglas78]

So take out Lloyd, and you have 30 drops. If those are caught his completion % is 57.56%. If they catch half those passes, his completions % is 52.03. From what I recall of that season, they should have caught at least half those passes. Still not stellar numbers, but not bad for basically a rookie with a average at best OLine

You take out Lloyd and got 30, but there were 31 total drops for the 2011 season?

6+5+5 = 16
4+2+2+2 = 10

16 + 10 = 26

Currently he is at 126/271 46.5%

So if they were all under Tebow 152/271 56.1%
Half would be 139/271 51.3%

As much as we like to say he is a rookie, but he wasn't. I wouldn't consider him a full second year player due to the issues preseason, and change in coaching staffs. Not a change in OC as the same OC was there from his rookie season. I don't know if it was an average OLine, as they were the leagues leading rushing team in the NFL at 164.5 rushing yards a game, beating the next team by 10 yards a game. They were tied for 9th in sacks allowed (42 sacks, Rams lead the league with 55).

 

[alcoholica]

You take out Lloyd and got 30, but there were 31 total drops for the 2011 season?

6+5+5 = 16
4+2+2+2 = 10

16 + 10 = 26

Currently he is at 126/271 46.5%

So if they were all under Tebow 152/271 56.1%
Half would be 139/271 51.3%

As much as we like to say he is a rookie, but he wasn't. I wouldn't consider him a full second year player due to the issues preseason, and change in coaching staffs. Not a change in OC as the same OC was there from his rookie season. I don't know if it was an average OLine, as they were the leagues leading rushing team in the NFL at 164.5 rushing yards a game, beating the next team by 10 yards a game. They were tied for 9th in sacks allowed (42 sacks, Rams lead the league with 55).

Well you said there were 4 in the Bears game but you couldn't find a breakdown. So that's where my extra 4 came from.

The Broncos and Texans were the only 2 teams to eclipse 500 attempts for the season. The 1st 5 games of the season they averaged 101.8 yds of rushing offense. The highest total was the SD game that Tebow came in to almost win with 162 yds. The Tebow games averaged 193 yds/game. So I think the fact that they were more dedicated to the run and having Tebow as a runner and run threat both helped with the rushing. Same offensive line and two different stories.

As for the sacks, if you run the ball as much as Denver did, how are you going to get sacked very much. Just look at the NE game and you'll see how good/bad the oline was.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Well you said there were 4 in the Bears game but you couldn't find a breakdown. So that's where my extra 4 came from.

The Broncos and Texans were the only 2 teams to eclipse 500 attempts for the season. The 1st 5 games of the season they averaged 101.8 yds of rushing offense. The highest total was the SD game that Tebow came in to almost win with 162 yds. The Tebow games averaged 193 yds/game. So I think the fact that they were more dedicated to the run and having Tebow as a runner and run threat both helped with the rushing. Same offensive line and two different stories.

As for the sacks, if you run the ball as much as Denver did, how are you going to get sacked very much. Just look at the NE game and you'll see how good/bad the oline was.

The four interceptions in that game are part of that 26. The totals per player were for the entire 2011. The game by game breakdown was to compare the drops by game, see if their were less for Orton compared to Tebow.

So the rushing stats are only because of Tebow now? Could they only have rushed for 101.8 yards, because they were behind in 4 of those five games. Teams rush more when they are ahead. The average sacks per game actually increased from Orton to Tebow. When Orton was quarterback there were 9 sacks or 1.8 sacks per game and Tebow had 33 sacks over 11 games or 3 sacks a game. Same offensive line and two different results? If that is true for rushing, then it is for sacks as well. So they were running more, by your argument their should be less sacks per game. Why did they increase?

 

[alcoholica]

The four interceptions in that game are part of that 26. The totals per player were for the entire 2011. The game by game breakdown was to compare the drops by game, see if their were less for Orton compared to Tebow.

So the rushing stats are only because of Tebow now? Could they only have rushed for 101.8 yards, because they were behind in 4 of those five games. Teams rush more when they are ahead. The average sacks per game actually increased from Orton to Tebow. When Orton was quarterback there were 9 sacks or 1.8 sacks per game and Tebow had 33 sacks over 11 games or 3 sacks a game. Same offensive line and two different results? If that is true for rushing, then it is for sacks as well. So they were running more, by your argument their should be less sacks per game. Why did they increase?

Well they increased due to Tebow. He was a young QB who held on to the ball trying to make a play. Tebow also had 12 TO compared to Orton's 9 in the regular season, which is huge when comparing the game time.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Well they increased due to Tebow. He was a young QB who held on to the ball trying to make a play. Tebow also had 12 TO compared to Orton's 9 in the regular season, which is huge when comparing the game time.

But you were just saying it was the lines fault?

Orton played in 9 games and had 9 turnovers in the regular season, Tebow had 12 over 11 regular season games. Now Orton did have 7 of his turnovers in the first 5 games. But much like you pointed out the level of competition for Tebow in his line play. In Orton's first five games the opponents were had a combined total record of (121-31 .7960) in the 11 games Tebow started the combined opponent record of 74-86 .4625).

 

[alcoholica]

But you were just saying it was the lines fault?

Orton played in 9 games and had 9 turnovers in the regular season, Tebow had 12 over 11 regular season games. Now Orton did have 7 of his turnovers in the first 5 games. But much like you pointed out the level of competition for Tebow in his line play. In Orton's first five games the opponents were had a combined total record of (121-31 .7960) in the 11 games Tebow started the combined opponent record of 74-86 .4625).

First, I said the Oline was average at best.

Secondly, the 9 TO's I mentioned were in Orton's Denver games, which was actually less than 5 since he got pulled.

why do you hate Tebow so much. He outperformed an NFL starter who is now a current NFL backup. All Tebow did was put together a winning record where Orton failed. Tebow was the difference. No one is saying Tebow is a starter or let alone an all-pro. Don't know why you try to tear him down. just sad is what it is.

 

[TheDouglas78]

First, I said the Oline was average at best.

Secondly, the 9 TO's I mentioned were in Orton's Denver games, which was actually less than 5 since he got pulled.

why do you hate Tebow so much. He outperformed an NFL starter who is now a current NFL backup. All Tebow did was put together a winning record where Orton failed. Tebow was the difference. No one is saying Tebow is a starter or let alone an all-pro. Don't know why you try to tear him down. just sad is what it is.

9 turnovers in Orton's games... why does NFL.com only have 7 in 2011 for the Denver Broncos (they have them split up by team)? All interceptions...

Why do you compare apples to oranges and try to make them the same. Are you saying that the competition the two quarterbacks faced are the same? By record they were not.

So now that your argument was factually disproved, not I'm hating or tearing him down. Do you think he doesn't know the flaws of his time in Denver? Do you think that after that time he didn't realize he had work to do? Why do you pretend that everything that happened in Denver was roses? The facts do not change who he is as a person or professional. It just puts them in proper context. You make excuses for a professional athlete, where if it was any other professional athlete you would not. I'm asking you do to the same thing that Tebow has asked you to do, judge him like any other professional athlete.

 

[alcoholica]

9 turnovers in Orton's games... why does NFL.com only have 7 in 2011 for the Denver Broncos (they have them split up by team)? All interceptions...

Why are you so emotional, you assume hate. Why when a factual argument comes up that disproves yours, you change your argument. Why do you compare apples to oranges and try to make them the same. Are you saying that the competition the two quarterbacks faced are the same? By record they were not.

So now that your argument was factually disproved, not I'm hating or tearing him down. Do you think he doesn't know the flaws of his time in Denver? Do you think that after that time he didn't realize he had work to do? Why do you pretend that everything that happened in Denver was roses? The facts do not change who he is as a person or professional. It just puts them in proper context. You make excuses for a professional athlete, where if it was any other professional athlete you would not. I'm asking you do to the same thing that Tebow has asked you to do, judge him like any other professional athlete.

NFL.com shows 9 TO's for his 2011 time with Denver. 7 ints and 2 lost fumbles

https://www.nfl.com/player/kyleorton/2506444/profile

you haven't disproved anything. I stated that the Oline was average at best. you have disproved nothing. you are annoying with your hate for a young man who won games. you move your argument and put words in mouths of people. no one said things were all roses. no one said he didn't have flaws. This entire thread you've taken the position that he wasn't good enough. Well we're talking about a 3rd string QB job. so put your POV's in the proper context.

Seriously, you act like your found out your wife has been stoopin the UPS guy. Ox called you out on your BS a couple days ago and he was right. You seem like a bitter little person. So I'm not participating in your moronathon any more

 

[skyflake]

I find that most everyone is living in la la land when it comes to Tim Tebow. Tebow is an extremely long shot to make a roster, much less ever be a starting quarterback in the NFL. He is just another quarterback that's brought in as training camp fodder that has almost no chance to stick. For those of you that are hanging on Chip Kelly's words, what else is he going to say ? Does any coach say that someone brought into training camp is just an extra practice player? As for Tebow's ability to be an NFL quarterback, did any of you actually watch him play in the NFL? If so, are you forgetting the constant panning of the camera to Elway to see the utter look of bewilderment on his face after one of Tebow's throws? The story was not about how great Tebow was, the story was how in the world are the Broncos winning with this awful quarterback? Elway, who has a clue what an NFL quarterback looks like, couldn't wait to get rid of Tebow, and it wasn't because Tebow was a great quarterback. Tebow was in the wrong era, he belongs in the days when players wore leather helmets and no faceguards. I suggest waiting until he actually is on the opening day roster before making him the starter. Tim Tebow was a great college quarterback, he's been an embarrassment as an NFL one, unless you thought the expression seen on Elway's face was tears of joy.

 

[MidwestChomp]

I find that most everyone is living in la la land when it comes to Tim Tebow. Tebow is an extremely long shot to make a roster, much less ever be a starting quarterback in the NFL. He is just another quarterback that's brought in as training camp fodder that has almost no chance to stick. For those of you that are hanging on Chip Kelly's words, what else is he going to say ? Does any coach say that someone brought into training camp is just an extra practice player? As for Tebow's ability to be an NFL quarterback, did any of you actually watch him play in the NFL? If so, are you forgetting the constant panning of the camera to Elway to see the utter look of bewilderment on his face after one of Tebow's throws? The story was not about how great Tebow was, the story was how in the world are the Broncos winning with this awful quarterback? Elway, who has a clue what an NFL quarterback looks like, couldn't wait to get rid of Tebow, and it wasn't because Tebow was a great quarterback. Tebow was in the wrong era, he belongs in the days when players wore leather helmets and no faceguards. I suggest waiting until he actually is on the opening day roster before making him the starter. Tim Tebow was a great college quarterback, he's been an embarrassment as an NFL one, unless you thought the expression seen on Elway's face was tears of joy.

The funny thing is Elway dumped Tebow and brought in Manning, who many will consider one of the greatest, and Denver still hasn't won a Super Bowl.

 

[TheDouglas78]

NFL.com shows 9 TO's for his 2011 time with Denver. 7 ints and 2 lost fumbles

https://www.nfl.com/player/kyleorton/2506444/profile

So NFL has two different stats pages for the same player with different turnover numbers.... I wonder which is correct.

https://www.nfl.com/player/kyleorton/2506444/careerstats

you haven't disproved anything. I stated that the Oline was average at best. you have disproved nothing. you are annoying with your hate for a young man who won games. you move your argument and put words in mouths of people. no one said things were all roses. no one said he didn't have flaws. This entire thread you've taken the position that he wasn't good enough. Well we're talking about a 3rd string QB job. so put your POV's in the proper context.

Again you go back to your hate argument. Which isn't an argument. Much like your name calling earlier (rule #5)

So far you have blamed his receivers, line, coaching, etc.. You have changed your stance every time the stats are brought up that goes against your argument.

The entire thread, I guess where I said he would be a great fit for Philly's offense you missed. Doesn't fit your argument does it. Or that I wouldn't be surprised if he did start games, and he should be competing for a starting job. I guess wasn't part of this thread right?

Seriously, you act like your found out your wife has been stoopin the UPS guy. Ox called you out on your BS a couple days ago and he was right. You seem like a bitter little person. So I'm not participating in your moronathon any more

Again arguments that prove you don't have a point. You like to say something and not really back it up. Then when stats or facts back up the opposite position you get all whiny and start name calling. More of the same from you.

You still haven't answered if any other pro athlete had the same production and stats would you be defending their play?

 

[oxrageous]

I find that most everyone is living in la la land when it comes to Tim Tebow. Tebow is an extremely long shot to make a roster, much less ever be a starting quarterback in the NFL. He is just another quarterback that's brought in as training camp fodder that has almost no chance to stick. For those of you that are hanging on Chip Kelly's words, what else is he going to say ? Does any coach say that someone brought into training camp is just an extra practice player? As for Tebow's ability to be an NFL quarterback, did any of you actually watch him play in the NFL? If so, are you forgetting the constant panning of the camera to Elway to see the utter look of bewilderment on his face after one of Tebow's throws? The story was not about how great Tebow was, the story was how in the world are the Broncos winning with this awful quarterback? Elway, who has a clue what an NFL quarterback looks like, couldn't wait to get rid of Tebow, and it wasn't because Tebow was a great quarterback. Tebow was in the wrong era, he belongs in the days when players wore leather helmets and no faceguards. I suggest waiting until he actually is on the opening day roster before making him the starter. Tim Tebow was a great college quarterback, he's been an embarrassment as an NFL one, unless you thought the expression seen on Elway's face was tears of joy.

Nice first post. :rolleyes:

That's all we need is more trolls. Can't wait until the season rolls around and we can get some actual new Gator members.

 

[VulcanAlex]

I find that most everyone is living in la la land when it comes to Tim Tebow. Tebow is an extremely long shot to make a roster, much less ever be a starting quarterback in the NFL. He is just another quarterback that's brought in as training camp fodder that has almost no chance to stick. For those of you that are hanging on Chip Kelly's words, what else is he going to say ? Does any coach say that someone brought into training camp is just an extra practice player? As for Tebow's ability to be an NFL quarterback, did any of you actually watch him play in the NFL? If so, are you forgetting the constant panning of the camera to Elway to see the utter look of bewilderment on his face after one of Tebow's throws? The story was not about how great Tebow was, the story was how in the world are the Broncos winning with this awful quarterback? Elway, who has a clue what an NFL quarterback looks like, couldn't wait to get rid of Tebow, and it wasn't because Tebow was a great quarterback. Tebow was in the wrong era, he belongs in the days when players wore leather helmets and no faceguards. I suggest waiting until he actually is on the opening day roster before making him the starter. Tim Tebow was a great college quarterback, he's been an embarrassment as an NFL one, unless you thought the expression seen on Elway's face was tears of joy.

Well you get paid to win games and Tim won a bunch. Now perhaps with a better team and some more experience he will win again. Several QB's in the past had poor balls but won a lot of games. Now Tim is a long shot to make the roster, I bet he understands that.

If Tim was such an embarrassment how did he manage to beat Pittsburgh in overtime with one perfect throw? I bet he will hold that record for a long time perhaps forever.

Try trolling somewhere else, this place surely has enough of your type of input.

 

[skyflake]

It seems that I have struck a nerve by only stating the truth. Now someone is bringing up "one perfect throw?' Here's a clue for you, the NFL requires a "perfect throw" at a much higher percentage than Tebow has demonstrated an ability to perform. Again, I seriously wonder if any of you actually watched him play? The emotion elicited from watching him play was pity. More than one person expressed how sorry they felt for Tebow because they think he's a great young man that was obviously in way over his head and it was painful to watch. Tim Tebow was a great college quarterback that didn't translate to the next level, it happens all the time. I don't think I've ever seen a NFL quarterback that looked consistently more pathetic. I'd like to see him succeed, he's a terrific leader, person, etc. etc., but I'm also a realist. What I saw when he played was not a mirage, and if you think that Belichick, to name just one NFL coach, would cut anyone who he thought could play, you're not paying attention. I'm satisfied that Tebow was great college quarterback. When will the unholy obsession with the false belief that he's an NFL quarterback end? If he's cut by the Eagles, will that finally end the madness?

 

[VulcanAlex]

It seems that I have struck a nerve by only stating the truth. Now someone is bringing up "one perfect throw?' Here's a clue for you, the NFL requires a "perfect throw" at a much higher percentage than Tebow has demonstrated an ability to perform. Again, I seriously wonder if any of you actually watched him play? The emotion elicited from watching him play was pity. More than one person expressed how sorry they felt for Tebow because they think he's a great young man that was obviously in way over his head and it was painful to watch. Tim Tebow was a great college quarterback that didn't translate to the next level, it happens all the time. I don't think I've ever seen a NFL quarterback that looked consistently more pathetic. I'd like to see him succeed, he's a terrific leader, person, etc. etc., but I'm also a realist. What I saw when he played was not a mirage, and if you think that Belichick, to name just one NFL coach, would cut anyone who he thought could play, you're not paying attention. I'm satisfied that Tebow was great college quarterback. When will the unholy obsession with the false belief that he's an NFL quarterback end? If he's cut by the Eagles, will that finally end the madness?

Well first it is not "madness", next it will only end when or if Tim gives up on his dream. Nothing is unholy, an obsession, or a false belief. There are a variety of NFL QB's many of which are less competent than Tim.

I bet your ability is fixed, Tim's is not!!!

PS If you paid attention you would remember that "someone" was me.