How We Fell from the Mountain Top

[southerngrilling]

Well at least we've grown accustomed to sucking and being disappointed. Won't be much of an adjustment if that trend continues.


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Yes. I am not sold on Mac either we digressed after the lsu game. If smart turns out to b good then we r in trouble.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Sorry but that's too long to read. We lost a couple of guys, but gained Cleveland. I think WR is a bigger need, so TC was a more important recruit IMHO. Mild disappointment at the finish but overall a really good class, with some potential sleepers. I think Mac will coach em up good. And yes, I'm a pumper.

Go Gators!!!

You really need to read it. Its spot on.

 

[t-gator]

Mac didn't seem very excited about today in what little I seen. That does make me feel a little better going forward. Knowing coach isn't content with this class.

 

[T REX]

Not disputing that. It's that he is a broken record. He says the same thing over and over and over again in every thread he shows up in.

It made me laugh because he started with his, "I'm gonna be objective" statement, wrote like one sentence that was somewhat positive and THEN started his two paragraphs of his suck mantra. That's just funny. There was no attempt of objectivity. It was let me start by saying something nice, so as to set up his argument for what he REALLY wanted to say.

That's not objectivity. It's setting the stage for your argument.

Who cares? Honestly, who gives a flying F what I think? My voice doesn't count for shinola. I notice that you aren't disputing anything I said. So, it is just the repetition? Don't worry I will be posting a lot less so you won't have to endure the broken record. I was very high on Mac but he has really crapped the bed the last couple months.

 

[alcoholica]

You really need to read it. Its spot on.

Thanks dude

 

[gatorkev85]

My honest opinion is things started going downhill when Foley gave Muschamp the extension when it was not deserved. When that happened it allowed him to say I can do this my way and not worry about losing my job because of the poor offense. I believe if Foley would have instead sat him down and said listen yea we won 11 games but we can't have our offense this bad and it needs to be fixed or this will not last long would have put the pressure on him to release the stranglehold he had on that side of the ball. Instead Foley rewarded him and it's my opinion that is the reason he was so reluctant because he knew as long as his defense was good enough to win the games that he'd keep his job. I think he knew that was the game plan so he would hire and fire to keep the fans happy, meanwhile he focused on his defense and offense took a back seat in recruiting

The extension caused UF to owe Muschamp tons of money and in return not have more to spend on a new hire which forced Foley to not make a big splash hire and we ended up with Mac.

Mac never showed the ability to overcome adversity once WG got in trouble and I think that left a sour taste in a lot of players mouths. Mac is suppose to be the leader yet all the players see is a coach who can't find a way to tweet the offense to have better production. Was he dealt a bad hand by Muschamp on offense absolutely but theres still no excuse for not making the changes to improve however he can, even if it was by 3-6 points a game better that's still and improvement but there wasn't any of that it kept going further backwards.

I think we took a step in the right direction in this class though it's an average class but I think we have a future Qb, Rb, and stud Wr but the defensive side of the ball fell short by not bringing in a DT kinda like Muschamp with the oline you have to bring in the bodies.

I'm ready to give him a honest chance but I want to see major improvement on the recruiting trail and a step up on offense. I will not be a sunshine pumper because I still feel it's not deserving as of right this moment but I'll tone down some of the negative comments. I really like the DB hire btw I think it's a very solid hire.

 

[2ndAmend]

Muschamp. Enough said.

Agreed & a gazillion correct.... but don't forget fooley. The brand still was shinning at the end of Oscar Myers tenure... a good next hire would've continued that trend... fooleys "decisions" also had a direct result in UF's decline.

Oh, before the fooley pumpers flame me, I would've given fooley a pass on the mush1t hire but remember, he f'd UF twice with horrible HBC hires.

 

[TheBoroGator]

Time for this insominiacs 2 cents. I agree that some blame can be put on Meyer, muschamp and Mac. But only one man can take sole credit for Florida's fall from greatness. His name is Nicholas Lou Saban Jr.
Florida football was in its heyday when Saban took over at Bama. We even beat him in 2008. But the year prior to that and every year since Alabama has outrecruited us and everyone else. He gets whoever he wants and more importantly he makes sure his competition gets who he wants them to get. He truly is the closest thing to a college football overlord.
Why is this? Because Bama doesn't care if they make it to march madness, the college world series, or any other NCAA sports tournament. All of the eggs are in the football basket. Alabama spent 2.7 million on football support staff alone in 2015. How many people does that buy? 50? 100? And that's just what's on paper. No telling how many propagandists or spin artists they control in the Media. Yes the cfb CIA is located in Tuscaloosa. They have someone digging through the garbage on every campus in the SEC. Whether a QB drinks a loaded milkshake or a star WR puffs a doob, they will find out and make sure the world knows. When was the last time a star at Alabama was caught doing anything?
I won't elaborate too much on the Tide's fan support. 95,000 people go to the spring game. Nuff said.
The truth hurts. I no more like typing this then you like reading it. But the truth is that when you combine the most loyal fan base with a state university that devotes all resources to football and then hand the reins to the best cfb coach that ever lived, you get the unstoppable.
Point the finger at Foley or this coach or that player but Saban is why we fell from the mountain top. The Florida Gators will not beat Alabama or win championships until we operate like they do (of course we won't do this) or General Saban quits (which probably won't happen for 5 or 10 years). Until then folks, tune in September for another rerun of SEC football.
I hope I am wrong and Mac brings us back. Until then pipe dreams of playoffs and championships are just that.

 

[Yankeetown]

Time for this insominiacs 2 cents. I agree that some blame can be put on Meyer, muschamp and Mac. But only one man can take sole credit for Florida's fall from greatness. His name is Nicholas Lou Saban Jr.
Florida football was in its heyday when Saban took over at Bama. We even beat him in 2008. But the year prior to that and every year since Alabama has outrecruited us and everyone else. He gets whoever he wants and more importantly he makes sure his competition gets who he wants them to get. He truly is the closest thing to a college football overlord.
.... snip snip

I think there is a ton of truth to what you say. Alabama under Saban has built a huge all-encompassing football ORGANIZATION that is unparalleled in modern NCAA history. And they are focused on just-football, in a way we are never going to be.

Not many here are giving Foley credit for this, but in hiring Mac he has recognized that the only way to compete more or less on the same plane as Alabama is to grow a comparable football organization. Mac is an Alabama-insider who was there, and knows how the whole thing works. Mac's building the back-office staff up, you heard his comments in the NSD presser about the importance of early evaluation and building relationships early.

Alabama like everybody else only has 25 slots per year, 85 in total. They can't sign ALL the 5*s and ALL the 4*s. Florida has more in-state talent than Alabama does, and we should be able to get back to being the default "destination of choice" for Florida kids. And being competitive for top recruits everywhere in the SEC footprint.

This is NOT a recipe for quick success. Alabama is too good, there is no recipe for quick success to overtake them. This is more like planting oak seeds than radishes, and many do not have the patience for it.

(FSU I believe is good mainly because of the dominance they have had lately in recruiting Florida kids. I don't think the coaching adds much to their success, it's mainly based on the incoming talent. If/when we get back to landing as much or better talent than FSU, we'll return to beating them most of the time, IMO.)

 

[GatorJ]

Meyer started the shyt show with OL numbers. And it infected the program for four years. Chump tried to stave it off by plugging holes with JUCOs. Which is fine as long as you're recruiting underclassmen, but he was not doing that until the 2014 class. Chump also recruited multiple good running backs. But the SEC is a conference where you must bring in at least two a year. So he only did it twice out of four years. And the QB is the most critical position and we only brought in one highly rated QB in his four years. But it was even much more damaging than that because the last two QBs under Meyer were abject failures.

OK, now to Mac. Excellent program coach that understands the importance of all aspects of the team. One thing that Mac is doing very well is recruiting offense. However, this is a line of scrimmage league. Just like we ran into issues with the OL with Chump it seems we are moving in that direction with the DL and Mac.

I think the hiring of the new DB coach will shore up some recruiting in Florida and with evaluation of our DB recruits. So I'm not worried about that.

Collins reminds me of Addazio. With his hat to the side.

 

[Homer J]

There is a big difference in recruiting and coaching;

Zook could get kids to sign there name, but couldn't coach them up or keep them in school for very long.
Meyer had a knack of signing some kids and winning recruiting battles, but as his assistants left, the kids failed to produce.

I like MAC. I like Randy Shannon as a LB coach and DC. I like Collins and Nuss (the first half of the year).
I LOVE having the same WR coach 2 years in a row.

I am not worried about this year's class because we seemed to cover a lot of needs and get 12 kids on campus for spring practice. Every starter for game 1 will go through spring ball. That is awesome.

OFFENSE:
The 3 OL guys can all redshirt. I don't think we will need them.
The 5 WRs can all compete and have a great chance of playing.
Our two new RBs will play and bring depth. Having 4 capable RBs will mean a lot as we hit the 2nd half of the season.
We have 4 TEs returning and 2 that have caught passes at meaningful times in a game. Stephens will need to step up this year.

DEFENSE:
We are set on the D-Line for this year. Next year we will need to recruit a couple of DTs. Our DE recruits are not needed to come in an be world beaters. Clayton will be able to come in and be a pass rusher, kinda like Bama did with Williams.
We will go through spring with 4 CBs (5 if you include Treon). We'll add two more in August.
We are stacked at safety with 4 coming back and 2 coming in. The 2 new recruits can sit back and learn.
With a healthy Anzalone & Rolin to go along with Davis and McMillan, we should be good at LB. Reese will probably see the field this year and I see Moon getting in and being a special assignment guy (rushing the passer).

Kicker - we have a guy who can make extra points.

 

[Delg8tor]

My honest opinion is things started going downhill when Foley gave Muschamp the extension when it was not deserved. When that happened it allowed him to say I can do this my way and not worry about losing my job because of the poor offense. I believe if Foley would have instead sat him down and said listen yea we won 11 games but we can't have our offense this bad and it needs to be fixed or this will not last long would have put the pressure on him to release the stranglehold he had on that side of the ball. Instead Foley rewarded him and it's my opinion that is the reason he was so reluctant because he knew as long as his defense was good enough to win the games that he'd keep his job. I think he knew that was the game plan so he would hire and fire to keep the fans happy, meanwhile he focused on his defense and offense took a back seat in recruiting

The extension caused UF to owe Muschamp tons of money and in return not have more to spend on a new hire which forced Foley to not make a big splash hire and we ended up with Mac.

Mac never showed the ability to overcome adversity once WG got in trouble and I think that left a sour taste in a lot of players mouths. Mac is suppose to be the leader yet all the players see is a coach who can't find a way to tweet the offense to have better production. Was he dealt a bad hand by Muschamp on offense absolutely but theres still no excuse for not making the changes to improve however he can, even if it was by 3-6 points a game better that's still and improvement but there wasn't any of that it kept going further backwards.

I think we took a step in the right direction in this class though it's an average class but I think we have a future Qb, Rb, and stud Wr but the defensive side of the ball fell short by not bringing in a DT kinda like Muschamp with the oline you have to bring in the bodies.

I'm ready to give him a honest chance but I want to see major improvement on the recruiting trail and a step up on offense. I will not be a sunshine pumper because I still feel it's not deserving as of right this moment but I'll tone down some of the negative comments. I really like the DB hire btw I think it's a very solid hire.

I officially relinquish my title of having the longest run-on sentence. Not only do I think you took that one but you now own the title of most run-on sentences in one post.

 

[alcoholica]

Meyer started the shyt show with OL numbers. And it infected the program for four years. Chump tried to stave it off by plugging holes with JUCOs. Which is fine as long as you're recruiting underclassmen, but he was not doing that until the 2014 class. Chump also recruited multiple good running backs. But the SEC is a conference where you must bring in at least two a year. So he only did it twice out of four years. And the QB is the most critical position and we only brought in one highly rated QB in his four years. But it was even much more damaging than that because the last two QBs under Meyer were abject failures.

OK, now to Mac. Excellent program coach that understands the importance of all aspects of the team. One thing that Mac is doing very well is recruiting offense. However, this is a line of scrimmage league. Just like we ran into issues with the OL with Chump it seems we are moving in that direction with the DL and Mac.

I think the hiring of the new DB coach will shore up some recruiting in Florida and with evaluation of our DB recruits. So I'm not worried about that.

Collins reminds me of Addazio. With his hat to the side.

I think both Meyer and Muschamp left some very large holes in the roster. We have been plugging holes for way too long. The more I think about the DT class, the more I worry. Next year we need 2 DTs and a JUCO. The OL class should have had at least 4, but this is less troublesome than the lack of DTs to develop.

 

[Alagator]

Don't worry I will be posting a lot less...

 

[Bama&GatorFan]

Excellent OP. Also, I agree that Saban is the alpha male, and Alabama is the team to beat for everyone now. Most teams storm the field when they beat Alabama nowadays.

I think Saban really changed the game by the defensive focus. Especially at defensive line. Alabama's defense has been shredded a few times in recent memory, but not many. They normally win by stopping the other team and scoring just enough points to win. Florida had a great defense this year, at least until the last few games. Maybe they realized the offense would not keep them in the game and it affected their performance, I don't know.

I think Florida has plugged the huge holes at QB and kicker for next year. Of course they will have some young guys that need to deliver, but I think they will be ok. The one thing that concerns me about the Gators is depth. They might lose some close games due to inadequate backup players at key positions. If they get a few breaks and keep everyone healthy, I think they could certainly win the east next year. But it won't be easy.

Just beat FSU and I'll be happy. Easier said than done, I know.

 

[gingerlover]

Everything I have seen in this post has contributed. Not sure if it has been said, but I would also add the crap show of offensive staff since 2010 with the jury pending on the current guys. Weiss, Pease, Roper, Phillips, Hill, Leak, Verducci, Lewis & Davis to name a few were all horrible hires and simply could not develop players whether it was on them or Muschamp meddling. It shows on the trail and this is why things went south once rock skipper was QB again. There was no way to fix him and make things better. no one was behind him because everyone that was around during the Muschamp Probation years was either broken or transferred. I'm sure our low balling assistants didn't help find better candidates. Then when they are let go for not producing they do nothing but bash us constantly as if they were wronged when it was about them sucking.

We all want to sit around and say we are UF and should get a top ten yearly, but our name no longer commands that. While the decline started under Urban, Muschamp took a sledge hammer to the program. The guys that signed yesterday were in 6th grade the last time we had a full season of a functional offense. That is what they know and who they see us as. that's only going to change if Mac puts a good product on the field next year or we will be in the same position sounding more and more like Miami fans talking about the good ole days. Once we start passing the eye ball test we will start climbing the ladder again with recruits. Having a top QB recruiting like crazy for us will help next year and Franks did us no favors in refusing to do so. Looking good winning and loosing will go a long way in helping us take back over our share of a state that now every program tries to recruit rather than sticking to their region. It's no longer just FSU, UF, and Miami going for these guy and we have to beat back everyone now. TV contracts, exposure for the smaller schools, and money have changed everything and Foley needs to get with the times and realize it.

Mac may turn out to be a good coach. Hopefully sooner than later because I am not sure how much patience UF has. He unfortunately reminds me of Dabo. Had the "awe shucks" attitude and it took him a while to figure things out. His first couple recruiting classes were not highly ranked and then one day it clicked and now he has a QB and it paid off. Fans wanted to run him off numerous times, but now love him. The problem is that it took him almost 10 years to pull it all together. We don't have that type of time in a state that is recruited by everyone and has two other historically great programs. They had that luxury due to being mediocre for 20 years and in a state with a crap rival minus a few years.

 

[alcoholica]

Everything I have seen in this post has contributed. Not sure if it has been said, but I would also add the crap show of offensive staff since 2010 with the jury pending on the current guys. Weiss, Pease, Roper, Phillips, Hill, Leak, Verducci, Lewis & Davis to name a few were all horrible hires and simply could not develop players whether it was on them or Muschamp meddling. It shows on the trail and this is why things went south once rock skipper was QB again. There was no way to fix him and make things better. no one was behind him because everyone that was around during the Muschamp Probation years was either broken or transferred. I'm sure our low balling assistants didn't help find better candidates. Then when they are let go for not producing they do nothing but bash us constantly as if they were wronged when it was about them sucking.

We all want to sit around and say we are UF and should get a top ten yearly, but our name no longer commands that. While the decline started under Urban, Muschamp took a sledge hammer to the program. The guys that signed yesterday were in 6th grade the last time we had a full season of a functional offense. That is what they know and who they see us as. that's only going to change if Mac puts a good product on the field next year or we will be in the same position sounding more and more like Miami fans talking about the good ole days. Once we start passing the eye ball test we will start climbing the ladder again with recruits. Having a top QB recruiting like crazy for us will help next year and Franks did us no favors in refusing to do so. Looking good winning and loosing will go a long way in helping us take back over our share of a state that now every program tries to recruit rather than sticking to their region. It's no longer just FSU, UF, and Miami going for these guy and we have to beat back everyone now. TV contracts, exposure for the smaller schools, and money have changed everything and Foley needs to get with the times and realize it.

Mac may turn out to be a good coach. Hopefully sooner than later because I am not sure how much patience UF has. He unfortunately reminds me of Dabo. Had the "awe shucks" attitude and it took him a while to figure things out. His first couple recruiting classes were not highly ranked and then one day it clicked and now he has a QB and it paid off. Fans wanted to run him off numerous times, but now love him. The problem is that it took him almost 10 years to pull it all together. We don't have that type of time in a state that is recruited by everyone and has two other historically great programs. They had that luxury due to being mediocre for 20 years and in a state with a crap rival minus a few years.

Good point on the assistants. There has been zero continuity there, especially WR coach.

Your point on Franks is one of the reasons I'm not too high on him. Compare him with Grier or Allen and he lacks the charisma. The fact that he wouldn't help recruit didn't really hurt us on the offensive side, except OL. I'm not real sure how much he could've affected defense. However, we saw the effect of Tebow on defensive recruiting, so who knows. Just not sold on his leadership, and his AA game was a disaster.

 

[ATXGator]

I think the OPs post was spot on.

I think one thing that was not mentioned is that Jimbo has actually turned out to be a great recruiter (although an average coach..IMO). That hurts us also because a lot of kids keep going to FSU.

Overall... I do believe that Mac can get us back. He had the offense playing well before Grier **** the bed. I still wonder why he didn't try to tweak the offense to meet Treon's skill set, but maybe with the poor OL that wasn't really possible.

I know this... we had WRs running open against every team (including Bama and FSU). If we have an OL and a QB who can see and hit open WRs we will score points.

Our D won't be as good as last year, but won't be as bad as you think. The DL is deep and the secondary will be strong. The LB position is the biggest concern, but Davis coming back was a huge help. We need Reese to play right away and will need Rolin and Anzalone to stay healthy. The kicking game is fixed and that is a big deal. Field Goals don't seem like a huge deal, but when you can hit them and get some points it helps, it also gives you the ability to kickoff and pin the other team at the 20 vs. giving them the ball at the 30 or better.

We can still be a big dog in college football. The state of Florida still has the best talent and if we start winning again we will get our share.

 

[gingerlover]

I still wonder why he didn't try to tweak the offense to meet Treon's skill set, but maybe with the poor OL that wasn't really possible.

I honestly don't know what he could have done. Treon had receivers open 5 yards down the field and couldn't hit them. The OL was much better in pass protection (probably because they knew he couldn't throw) than the run game so I'm not sure how much they could throw at them or teach all the young guys in that short a time span as they would have gotten killed as an option style team.