Mortgage rates

BMF

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They must not read GC, we've been talking about a looming FC boom for months.

Better get out of big bank stocks now. A rise in delinquency will eventually lead to increases in probability of default, which will lead to increased in loan loss provisions. That's important because you must expense your adjustments to loan loss provisions. This may be different for bundled home loans, but they'll have something similar to reflect the increased risk. In any event, it will directly hit earnings.

Berkshire/Buffet dumped 99% of their Wells Fargo holdings today.
 

GatorCatsi

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Interesting take on the mortgage industry. Wondering how it jibes with our resident mortgage professionals' understanding.

"Mortgage Mayhem"
 

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  • Mortgage Mayhem _ Epsilon Theory.pdf
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BMF

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alcoholica

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Interesting take on the mortgage industry. Wondering how it jibes with our resident mortgage professionals' understanding.

"Mortgage Mayhem"

I think Alchy works for a bank....I just insure their mess....

I contract on the commercial side of things, so I only know about consumer lanes from talking to residential loan officers and what I read.

That being said, I'm not so sure that capacity will be as big of an issue as they are alluding to. My understanding is that many banks and others were not able to scale up and have been putting in rather long work weeks for quite a while. I also don't have a great feel on funding from upstream on these things. I'm sure @FireFoley can provide some better insight into how the overall Treasury rates feed into the funding stream. I'm sure they use some sort of blend to fund, as well. The average home loan pays out in 10 years plus or minus, so it would stand to reason the the 10yr UST is a huge signal and it's been moving up since late summer.

Dodd Frank certainly had it's pros and cons and was intentionally difficult so those who drafted it could retire and work in consulting to help banks navigate the new law, and probably not cheaply either. But honestly, I don't ever really hear of banks holding home loans in house to any real consequence. They just package, sell, and take their 100bps or so. But everyone has been busy, and not just the lenders. Title agencies, appraisers, etc etc.

It doesn't take a genius to know that there's something hinky. It just takes paying attention. It's always like that. Someone like Foley may see rate issues. Crete may see volume issues, I may see pricing issues, and so on, but once you notice one thing, you'll dig and see more.

Honestly, for me it was the sheer prices of homes. I think the market would've corrected last summer if not for COVID. And now I'm expecting a bust. First I saw pricing, then you identify some of the reasons why pricing is high, then measure how fragile those supports are, and poof....you've gone from noticing one thing to realizing it's a house of cards. And what really gets me is when you look at housing starts compared to '05/'06. This market has no real momentum or volume comparable to back then, which I think will cause a much quicker turn than '07/'08.
 

FireFoley

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CDGator

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We just listed our cabin in Shenandoah County, it went live today. We got 4 offers, 3 were over asking....one was 30+% over asking ($61,100 over asking price) all cash!! One offer was $210k escalating to $226k, the other over-asking was $215k escalating to $240k (they're going to be surprised when they are told they got outbid!).

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/509-Alpine-Way_Mount-Jackson_VA_22842_M67618-91821

What did you think you would get realistically? Did you undervalue it hoping for a bidding war or did you think it would go for $175k so you listed it for $199?
 

BMF

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What did you think you would get realistically? Did you undervalue it hoping for a bidding war or did you think it would go for $175k so you listed it for $199?

Last year, I was hoping we'd get over $180k when we planned to sell it this year (so, 12 months ago, I forecasted $180-ish). Then we met w/ the realtor around Christmas, w/ the plan to sell in the spring. She guessed we should list it around $185-$189k then. We waited a little longer to list it due to other circumstances, so we met w/ the agent again 3 weeks ago and she said the market out there is hot w/ people from the city looking for 'covid homes' (getaways from the city since they can telework now) and she suggested $199,900k (she said we could have gone higher, but figured keeping it under $200k would bring in more interested parties). We figured we'd get between $210k-$220k. I never imagined 30% higher!

Our agent is also their agent. She said the couple had been looking for a long time and had 5 other deals fall through or they got outbid. So I guess they wanted to make sure they got it this time (and somebody did offer up to $240k, so I guess their plan was to go up to $260K, plus the extra $1k to ensure they got it?).

When I first finished it in Dec 2014, I probably could have gotten what I had put into it (around $130k). After I finished it I added the shed (12x16), extended the deck (I was going to put a hot tub on it, but after we started renting it on airbnb I changed my mind - because it's an added expense and renters tend to f*ck up hot tubs), then I added the outdoor shower, then the wood shed, and horseshoe pit. I figure I spent another $10k after getting the COO.
 

Detroitgator

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Interesting take on the mortgage industry. Wondering how it jibes with our resident mortgage professionals' understanding.

"Mortgage Mayhem"
The thing I did not realize until reading this is that Dodd-Frank regulation only applied to the banks, not all lenders.
 

CDGator

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Last year, I was hoping we'd get over $180k when we planned to sell it this year (so, 12 months ago, I forecasted $180-ish). Then we met w/ the realtor around Christmas, w/ the plan to sell in the spring. She guessed we should list it around $185-$189k then. We waited a little longer to list it due to other circumstances, so we met w/ the agent again 3 weeks ago and she said the market out there is hot w/ people from the city looking for 'covid homes' (getaways from the city since they can telework now) and she suggested $199,900k (she said we could have gone higher, but figured keeping it under $200k would bring in more interested parties). We figured we'd get between $210k-$220k. I never imagined 30% higher!

Our agent is also their agent. She said the couple had been looking for a long time and had 5 other deals fall through or they got outbid. So I guess they wanted to make sure they got it this time (and somebody did offer up to $240k, so I guess their plan was to go up to $260K, plus the extra $1k to ensure they got it?).

When I first finished it in Dec 2014, I probably could have gotten what I had put into it (around $130k). After I finished it I added the shed (12x16), extended the deck (I was going to put a hot tub on it, but after we started renting it on airbnb I changed my mind - because it's an added expense and renters tend to f*ck up hot tubs), then I added the outdoor shower, then the wood shed, and horseshoe pit. I figure I spent another $10k after getting the COO.

That’s fantastic! Happy for you and it will help you in FL.

I know we want to move in two years and the market is hot but we just aren’t wanting to sell right now. Not sure what state we will land in so we can’t purchase now anyway.
 

Detroitgator

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A female friend from HS is a hairdresser in Phoenix. She posted this this morning. I'm guessing this is a pretty real phenomenon in a lot of hot markets right now:

Words cannot describe this housing market
1f61e.png
I have 2 weeks to find a home or I’m on the streets with 2 cats!
Hundreds spent on application fees and we’re gold on paper!!!
Need a home ASAP and prayers are appreciated​
 

soflagator

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That’s fantastic! Happy for you and it will help you in FL.

I know we want to move in two years and the market is hot but we just aren’t wanting to sell right now. Not sure what state we will land in so we can’t purchase now anyway.

Based on pics, I'm surprised you want to leave. That property looks like a story book.
 

bradgator2

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A friend is a traveling nurse and she just took a short job in Couer D’Alene, Idaho. She gets there and there are no hotels, no airbnbs.... nothing. The hotels are saying people have been booked their for months. They say people have sold their homes in California and headed east to these small towns. Except there is nothing to buy. Or rent.

Anyway, she had to bail after a week of sleeping and showering in the hospital.
 

Detroitgator

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A friend is a traveling nurse and she just took a short job in Couer D’Alene, Idaho. She gets there and there are no hotels, no airbnbs.... nothing. The hotels are saying people have been booked their for months. They say people have sold their homes in California and headed east to these small towns. Except there is nothing to buy. Or rent.

Anyway, she had to bail after a week of sleeping and showering in the hospital.
In terms of YOY growth, CdA is the hotest market in America.
 

CDGator

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Based on pics, I'm surprised you want to leave. That property looks like a story book.

Thanks. It’s been an ideal place to raise kids here with grandma, grandpa and lots of family within a few short miles. Seedy’s parents recently passed, daughter graduates Friday and 25 years of mowing and weed eating is enough. This was my dream, not Seedy’s so when the son graduates in 2 years we will look for something on the water. Maybe that’s a lake or beach. Who knows.
 

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