Mortgage rates

BMF

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I'm watching for the open discussion of a federal property tax

Oooof! I've never thought about that, but wouldn't that infringe on state's rights (10th amendment)?

On another note: lumber is back under $1000, after peaking around $1600.

Lumber is showing us the future: Morning Brief

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During the housing bubble, the futures contract for random length lumber never traded above $500 per board feet. But by early May, lumber futures were trading hands for more than $1,600 per board feet. This surge was adding as much as $36,000 to the cost of a new home; on average, new homes sell for around $400,000.
 

Concrete Helmet

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Oooof! I've never thought about that, but wouldn't that infringe on state's rights (10th amendment)?

On another note: lumber is back under $1000, after peaking around $1600.

Lumber is showing us the future: Morning Brief

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During the housing bubble, the futures contract for random length lumber never traded above $500 per board feet. But by early May, lumber futures were trading hands for more than $1,600 per board feet. This surge was adding as much as $36,000 to the cost of a new home; on average, new homes sell for around $400,000.
Pretty good piece to help understand what markets are doing in general. That is a huge drop though and falling Lumber prices has also led us into more than one SM and housing crash. I hope it does not hit us that hard this time but I can tell you there will be a loosening of inventory and somewhat of a price correction in the near future. We've already closed 2 bank owned properties this month which are the first we've seen in the last 18 months... I just hope that this small correction doesn't lead us to where the 2006-2007 correction led us.
 

BMF

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Pretty good piece to help understand what markets are doing in general. That is a huge drop though and falling Lumber prices has also led us into more than one SM and housing crash. I hope it does not hit us that hard this time but I can tell you there will be a loosening of inventory and somewhat of a price correction in the near future. We've already closed 2 bank owned properties this month which are the first we've seen in the last 18 months... I just hope that this small correction doesn't lead us to where the 2006-2007 correction led us.

I think the supply/demand issue is correcting itself - I have a few friends who are builders in Florida and they're holding off, or slowing down on purpose. The only people they're really building for are people with money. Also, in the article, even with the overinflated lumber prices it only caused a $36k increase to the "average" home (which is $400k) - so about a 9-10% increase. Most people who can afford to build a million $$ house can afford to pay an extra 9-10%. I imagine those in the $250k-$500k range it could have an effect...but used homes are at least 10% over inflated right now too.

We're planning (hoping) to have our home on the market here in Arlington by mid-July. Hopefully it'll go under contract quickly. We're shooting for $700k, which is fair around here.
 

alcoholica

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Pretty good piece to help understand what markets are doing in general. That is a huge drop though and falling Lumber prices has also led us into more than one SM and housing crash. I hope it does not hit us that hard this time but I can tell you there will be a loosening of inventory and somewhat of a price correction in the near future. We've already closed 2 bank owned properties this month which are the first we've seen in the last 18 months... I just hope that this small correction doesn't lead us to where the 2006-2007 correction led us.
Rates dropped almost 2% back then to get the market to bottom out, and drop dropping. We're just about to start evictions up in a couple weeks (i believe). Who knows what else will negatively impact the market in the next 6 months....rates? Fed reducing mortgage backed security purchases? Equity funds liquidating? who knows.
 

BMF

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More on lumber:

Lumber Prices Are Falling Fast, Turning Hoarders Into Sellers

Lumber prices are falling back to Earth.

Futures for July delivery ended Tuesday at $1,009.90 per thousand board feet, down 41% from the record of $1,711.20 reached in early May. Futures have declined 14 of the past 16 trading days.

Cash lumber prices are also crashing. Pricing service Random Lengths said Friday that its framing composite index, which tracks on-the-spot sales, dropped $122 to $1,324, its biggest ever weekly decline. The pullback came just six weeks after the index rose $124 during the first week of May, its most on record. Random Lengths described a chaotic rout in which sawmill managers struggled to provide customers with price quotes. It said late Tuesday that its index had dropped another $114, to $1,210.

“I don’t think $1,000 lumber prices are the new normal,” Devin Stockfish, chief executive of lumber producer Weyerhaeuser Co. WY 0.20% , told investors at a conference last week. “But that being said, when you think about the amount of housing that we’re going to have to build in the U.S. over the next three, five, 10 years, that’s just a significant amount of demand for wood products.”

At the same conference, executives from lumber producer PotlatchDeltic Corp. PCH 0.45% said they expect lumber to trade in a range of $700 to $800 through next year. That is still more than the pre-pandemic record of $639 and is based on their estimation of the price that mills in British Columbia need to break even sawing North America’s most-expensive logs. Prices below that could prompt mills in Canada to dial back output or shut down, which would eventually force prices higher to meet demand, they said.

The stock market is assuming even lower lumber prices ahead. Analysts with BMO Capital Markets recently calculated that the share prices of three Canadian firms that have become the biggest sawyers in the southern pinelands have priced in expectations of $447 lumber next year. That would be a little more expensive than normal, but more in line with historical prices.
 

Concrete Helmet

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Basically when the markets are manipulated to the degree they are today the data could be useless. I don't see the Fed tapering anytime soon so we'll have more of the same sideways chop with little up and down spikes across all sectors IMO.
Housing on the other hand will have a slight to moderate downturn as demand is nearing the fall you see in lumber over the last 8 weeks. Even lower rates won't help that cause. What will cause a bigger drop and perhaps a full blown crash will be when/if the rates go higher.
 

FireFoley

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Well based on the FED's meeting notes, the market has voted. One day does not a trend make but the Treasury market votes : STAGFLATION. 2yr treasury up.04, 5 yr. up.10 an the 30 yr, flat, 0.0, a Blutarsky!
 

FireFoley

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So one day after the FED meeting, the 30yr. conforming mortgage goes up 1/8th of a point and is higher than a 30yr. Jumbo, yet long rates went DOWN. Just goes to show you what the mortgage market thinks will happen when (or IF) the FED stops buying 40 Billion in mortgages each month. @Concrete Helmet did you happen to notice that today?
 

Concrete Helmet

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So one day after the FED meeting, the 30yr. conforming mortgage goes up 1/8th of a point and is higher than a 30yr. Jumbo, yet long rates went DOWN. Just goes to show you what the mortgage market thinks will happen when (or IF) the FED stops buying 40 Billion in mortgages each month. @Concrete Helmet did you happen to notice that today?
I saw the 10yr shoot up yesterday afternoon by like 10 points and then today drop by about 8 when the NASDAQ started to tank
...the only other thing Crete saw today was a lot of red....I thought someone hacked my brokerage account for real when I looked around 1.00pm,.....f vckin dollar...
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FireFoley

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2 months later. Just bought a house in KC via video walk-through!
Heading up next Friday for inspections.
Grandkids, here we come!

Congrats, I think. You have ballz buying a home with only a virtual view, but at least you did not waive inspection like a lot of buyers are. good luck with everything
 

GatorCatsi

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Congrats, I think. You have ballz buying a home with only a virtual view, but at least you did not waive inspection like a lot of buyers are. good luck with everything
Yeah, we'll see if it was baltz or batsht crazy. :lol:

We had already decided to stop doing the remote tours and were making plans to go up to KC for one last all-out attempt to buy, but had decided we were okay with renting.

It was a house we had our eye on. Checked off all our boxes, but it was 10k over budget. They dropped the price by 10k yesterday, so we made an offer.

Wouldn't have done it without our RE agent. She and my wife have very similar tastes, and she's been great.
 

FireFoley

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I have mentioned BlackRock and the Gov't multiple times in this Forum. BlackRock is zeroing in on convincing the Morons in the gov't that we the average schmuck are even bigger Morons that the gov't lackeys and are not smart enough to manage our own retirement monies. So BlackRock wants to create gov't sponsored retirement accts. for all the saps out there and convince the gov't to allow BlackRock to "manage" all the accts. in exchange for a guaranteed monthly payment to all the schmucks in the future. That is just one of the many steps BlackRock has in mind to get their grubby paws on as much of our money as possible.
 

BMF

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I have mentioned BlackRock and the Gov't multiple times in this Forum. BlackRock is zeroing in on convincing the Morons in the gov't that we the average schmuck are even bigger Morons that the gov't lackeys and are not smart enough to manage our own retirement monies. So BlackRock wants to create gov't sponsored retirement accts. for all the saps out there and convince the gov't to allow BlackRock to "manage" all the accts. in exchange for a guaranteed monthly payment to all the schmucks in the future. That is just one of the many steps BlackRock has in mind to get their grubby paws on as much of our money as possible.

I'm not sure if this is the solution, but something's got to be done about the pending social security underfunding 'issue' - either the gov't raises SS taxes on working folks and/or they cut back on the current benefits for SS recipients. If they create some sort of '401k' account, somebody should manage it outside of the federal government (as we've seen w/ SS). With the amount of money people pay into SS, most people w/ a median income would (likely) have over $500k in their retirement account by the time they reach 62-66 (if they start working between 18-25 and work 40+ years) at the current 6% ss tax. Anyhow, that's a whole other discussion outside of mortgage rates, which is what this thread is about.
 

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