I hope Leon Orr comes back

[soflagator]

Liberals... it isn't fair, he didn't mean it, give him another chance, his mommy, his grandma... jesus christ we all have had hard knocks and family struggles. Life is enduring and over coming. The guy decided on his own to leave the team, WM didn't boot him over his desire to start. Orr left because he wasn't starting. Here's one for you Orr and liberal lip smackers.... go into the game on the second series and kick so much ass the coaches play you the lions share of the game. Worried about the NFL, get some highlight film on you, last I checked the scouts aren't looking to see if you tossed the coin every game or started only to benched most of the game. The guy left the team on Game Day (a huge game for the team and it's recovery march) over starting not playing or injury. That's all you need to know. Save your sad sap stories for the media, I have plenty too over the years. Winners overcome, not run with their tail between their legs.
Wow,

Not sure is you were replying to me specifically, but I assure you I'm not an excuse maker. I do understand the circumstances, and can imagine someone making a bad decision as a result. But all that said, Orr made a decision and will have to live with it. My point is that if this were Spurrier or Meyer, then I'm good with the whole "make a mistake and you're out" mindset. Their resume was sufficient, and they didn't complain about circumstances or make excuses for themselves. WM has accomplished nothing, has taken UF to new lows, and along the way has arrogantly tried to dismiss any criticism, all while believing that he's deserving of more "chances". That's my issue here. If we're holding people responsible for bad choices, then let's be consistent.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Link?

Just follow his Twitter account or up until yesterday afternoon where he started to change the tone of what he was saying. Also was on multiple sites his live twitter before/during the Vanderbilt game. I found it originally on a click through on Sunday.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Why would we want someone so selfish back?

 

[MJMGator]

Not sure is you were replying to me specifically, but I assure you I'm not an excuse maker. I do understand the circumstances, and can imagine someone making a bad decision as a result. But all that said, Orr made a decision and will have to live with it. My point is that if this were Spurrier or Meyer, then I'm good with the whole "make a mistake and you're out" mindset. Their resume was sufficient, and they didn't complain about circumstances or make excuses for themselves. WM has accomplished nothing, has taken UF to new lows, and along the way has arrogantly tried to dismiss any criticism, all while believing that he's deserving of more "chances". That's my issue here. If we're holding people responsible for bad choices, then let's be consistent.

I've nevr heard WM say he deserves anything. Only his dwindling fan club has ever uttered those words.

 

[Gator Fever]

If he wasn't a senior he would probably be allowed back eventually but being a senior he is done most likely.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Not sure is you were replying to me specifically, but I assure you I'm not an excuse maker. I do understand the circumstances, and can imagine someone making a bad decision as a result. But all that said, Orr made a decision and will have to live with it. My point is that if this were Spurrier or Meyer, then I'm good with the whole "make a mistake and you're out" mindset. Their resume was sufficient, and they didn't complain about circumstances or make excuses for themselves. WM has accomplished nothing, has taken UF to new lows, and along the way has arrogantly tried to dismiss any criticism, all while believing that he's deserving of more "chances". That's my issue here. If we're holding people responsible for bad choices, then let's be consistent.

So when Muschamp is right, he is wrong? Orr as a 5th year senior knows how the system works, he put an ultimatium that he was more important than the team. He was wrong. Orr is an adult and knew the consequences of his actions. To say if it was Meyer or Spurrier then it would the right decision, just shows it's the right decision.

 

[Gator Fever]

This is great work by his handlers to change the narrative. His twitter account tells a different story.

I think he changed his tune there also but after tweeting a bunch of stupid stuff on his way home.

 

[ATXGator]

Not sure is you were replying to me specifically, but I assure you I'm not an excuse maker. I do understand the circumstances, and can imagine someone making a bad decision as a result. But all that said, Orr made a decision and will have to live with it. My point is that if this were Spurrier or Meyer, then I'm good with the whole "make a mistake and you're out" mindset. Their resume was sufficient, and they didn't complain about circumstances or make excuses for themselves. WM has accomplished nothing, has taken UF to new lows, and along the way has arrogantly tried to dismiss any criticism, all while believing that he's deserving of more "chances". That's my issue here. If we're holding people responsible for bad choices, then let's be consistent.

Just so I understand this... just because Muschamp has not done a good job as a head coach, he is not allowed to hold a player accountable for a decision the player made when the consequences of the action were specifically spelled out?

This may be the most idiotic logic I have ever read on a message board... and that's saying a lot!

 

[TheDouglas78]

I think he changed his tune there also but after tweeting a bunch of stupid stuff on his way home.

His tune appeared to change monday, about the same time as he would have been interviewed for the article. That's what a good professional handler does, gets you to shut up and change the narrative.

 

[soflagator]

I've nevr heard WM say he deserves anything. Only his dwindling fan club has ever uttered those words.

If Foley told him today that he was thinking about canning him, you believe Muschamp would just humbly say, "well, I have ****up so I deserve it"?

Even in press conferences, he's talked about patience, came out with the whole "get a grip" comment, and has consistently insisted that "we'll get it corrected". That's basically saying that I need more time, and a subtle insinuation that the fans' expectations are not in line with reality.

 

[EuroGator]

I readily admit that I don't know every detail, and tend to be biased in these cases. But based solely on my opinion that many of WM's decisions have been wrong up to this point, I'm not a big fan of the decision. Players have spoken about it as a "shock", saying that he was a good teammate and improving individual. So I think divits is correct that he panicked a bit, perhaps due to some personal circumstances, and felt that his time to impress scouts was closing and he needed, or even deserved, to start.

My biggest issue here is that it's a mistake. Orr shouldn't have acted that way, and already got some of his punishment by being sent home. But for a 40 something year old who has largely failed at his job, made terrible personnel decisions, botched several recruiting opportunities, yelled at a fan, condescendingly lashed out at reporters following an epic loss, and told an entire fan base comprised of the very people who write his pay check to "get a grip", and yet still feels he deserves another chance, I find it discouraging that he is so definitive in his not allowing a 21 year old to come back from a mistake of his own.

I would probably prefer it to be handled that way too, but Orr forfeited any possibility of that by following through with leaving. I get your point about being gracious even when it's not deserved (my wording) and I tend to agree. I hate to see one dumb mistake have this kind of effect - though the mistake was a rather large one. However, I think you're putting letting yourself be too influenced by your take on Muschamp's manner. I too have felt some concern that his apparent lack of emotional control isn't the best way or best example for his players, but I've heard too many of them testify to how much they love him and know he genuinely cares for them to not believe that.

I think he does care. He's fun-loving. ...and he has an edge ...an inflexible sticking-to-his-guns side. That side is what has cleaned up the program. It's why we lost our best player in his first season. Orr knows Muschamp even better and knew this about him. Furthermore, and more importantly for this discussion, I don't think many coaches at big-time programs would have been as gracious as you (and perhaps I) would have liked for him to be. Like Loogis said, Muschamp gave an ultimatum that had severe consequences and he won't back down from that. It's very understandable to me that if Orr gave WM an ultimatum, that Muschamp would turn it around on him. It's also very understandable to me if the consequences were severe, seeing as how Orr put him in this position on game-day! Muschamp is s'posed to deal with Orr's demands better on the day of the game? He can't force him to stay. He can't give in to his demands. I don't fault WM for not being Jesus when put in a bind on one of the biggest days of his year.

It's unfortunate and I would prefer it be different, but Orr is to blame here, not Muschamp.

 

[ReelGatorDoc]

Orr could have just been pissed, whinned and sat the bench as punishment, but him choosing to hop on a bus...screwed the pooch on him
"loving this team". You can't walk away from your team that spent the last week working you into a rotation and defensive scheme strategy. That
just puts more the the guys in the trenches and the coaches game plan.

Tough life lesson, but learn it or repeat it...but it's HIS problem now

 

[Leroy Jenkins]

Would Leon Orr coming back on the team help us play better? Perhaps..on the field only..but who knows how the other players would handle it..he quit on the team..period! Unless he goes way above and way beyond, I don't think it's so easy just to let him back on before the next game starts. Chemistry matters, too.

 

[soflagator]

Just so I understand this... just because Muschamp has not done a good job as a head coach, he is not allowed to hold a player accountable for a decision the player made when the consequences of the action were specifically spelled out?

This may be the most idiotic logic I have ever read on a message board... and that's saying a lot!

Again, I'm fine with Orr being held accountable. I just believe that people make bad decisions. WM has made plenty, and wants to be excused for his. I'd rather Orr face a punishment but potentially have the opportunity to work his way back. In short, as I said initially, I no longer trust WM's judgement on anything, and have approximately 4 years of data to support that opinion.

As for your last line, I've not attacked anyone else's view on this. I have a differing opinion here. If we're going to get into taking shots and characterization of ideas, then I'd love to revisit the past 15 months of your constant WM apologizing. We can disagree, but let's be respectful.

 

[soflagator]

I would probably prefer it to be handled that way too, but Orr forfeited any possibility of that by following through with leaving. I get your point about being gracious even when it's not deserved (my wording) and I tend to agree. I hate to see one dumb mistake have this kind of effect - though the mistake was a rather large one. However, I think you're putting letting yourself be too influenced by your take on Muschamp's manner. I too have felt some concern that his apparent lack of emotional control isn't the best way or best example for his players, but I've heard too many of them testify to how much they love him and know he genuinely cares for them to not believe that.

I think he does care. He's fun-loving. ...and he has an edge ...an inflexible sticking-to-his-guns side. That side is what has cleaned up the program. It's why we lost our best player in his first season. Orr knows Muschamp even better and knew this about him. Furthermore, and more importantly for this discussion, I don't think many coaches at big-time programs would have been as gracious as you (and perhaps I) would have liked for him to be. Like Loogis said, Muschamp gave an ultimatum that had severe consequences and he won't back down from that. It's very understandable to me that if Orr gave WM an ultimatum, that Muschamp would turn it around on him. It's also very understandable to me if the consequences were severe, seeing as how Orr put him in this position on game-day! Muschamp is s'posed to deal with Orr's demands better on the day of the game? He can't force him to stay. He can't give in to his demands. I don't fault WM for not being Jesus when put in a bind on one of the biggest days of his year.

It's unfortunate and I would prefer it be different, but Orr is to blame here, not Muschamp.

Your last line is 100% correct. Handled the way I'd prefer or not, the blame falls squarely on Orr. No debating that.

 

[soflagator]

So when Muschamp is right, he is wrong? Orr as a 5th year senior knows how the system works, he put an ultimatium that he was more important than the team. He was wrong. Orr is an adult and knew the consequences of his actions. To say if it was Meyer or Spurrier then it would the right decision, just shows it's the right decision.

Again, if you read my post, I readily admit that I have little faith that any decision WM makes is the correct one. It's a position supported by 4 years of wrong choices. I had faith in those two that a particular move was the right one because they had done enough to deserve that benefit of the doubt. WM hasn't, which leaves me questioning any decision he makes.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Again, if you read my post, I readily admit that I have little faith that any decision WM makes is the correct one. It's a position supported by 4 years of wrong choices. I had faith in those two that a particular move was the right one because they had done enough to deserve that benefit of the doubt. WM hasn't, which leaves me questioning any decision he makes.

Again, once you said other people who would make the same decision and they would be right. Then it proves that this decision was right. Muschamp has made poor decisions, and if others had made the same decisions they would be just as wrong. Just like if others had made this decision they would be just as right.

 

[soflagator]

Again, once you said other people who would make the same decision and they would be right. Then it proves that this decision was right. Muschamp has made poor decisions, and if others had made the same decisions they would be just as wrong. Just like if others had made this decision they would be just as right.

I trust their decisions. I do not trust WM's decision making. It's that simple.

In my original post, I believe I stated that I obviously don't know all the details. But he doesn't seem to be perceived as a constant head case. Personally, I'd like to punish him but also extend the possibility of a return. Just me.

 

[oxrageous]

If we're going to get into taking shots and characterization of ideas, then I'd love to revisit the past 15 months of your constant WM apologizing.

 

[EuroGator]

Again, I'm fine with Orr being held accountable. I just believe that people make bad decisions. WM has made plenty, and wants to be excused for his. I'd rather Orr face a punishment but potentially have the opportunity to work his way back. In short, as I said initially, I no longer trust WM's judgement on anything, and have approximately 4 years of data to support that opinion.

I'm glad you at least own up to your buyestness. I don't think WM is as consistently wrong as you think, nor Urban or Spurrier as worthy of cart blanche. Urban did plenty of bone-headed things while at UF - from blowing up at the media (worse than Muschamp, btw) to the infamous circle of trust. Spurrier could be as moody and temperamental as WM. He won, but we could question plenty of his decisions (what would you do if Muschamp punted on 3rd down!).

As for WM, you said...

Even in press conferences, he's talked about patience, came out with the whole "get a grip" comment, and has consistently insisted that "we'll get it corrected". That's basically saying that I need more time, and a subtle insinuation that the fans' expectations are not in line with reality.

C'mon man! You're a good and reasonable poster. You've got to see that this isn't reasonable. Do you think he'll just quit? Is that better than admitting there's a problem and saying you'll correct it? There were times when he made mistakes with fans or was snippy with the media, but Urban and Spurrier have both had bigger issues with the media. It's fine if you don't think WM deserves to be here and if you want him gone, but to twist the truth like this doesn't measure up to the sofla we all respect.

Now, having already said too much, I'll lay off.

I know the two biggest elements of this for you are:
1. Not trusting Muschamp.
2. Wanting the best for a young man who made a mistake and who gave a lot to the Gator program.

I can agree with #2 whole-heartedly.