If we win this weekend vs LSU, is Foley forgiven?

[Jand3k]

This is silly. The instant gratification monster raises it's ugly head once again. :rolleyes:

Firing someone who was deemed by his peers too be one of the best in the business just because he made a bad call on someone who at the time was considered to be a solid and reasonable hire. I seem to remember the fire Foley crowd pulling out many of the same arguments when he hired a relatively unknown guy named McElwain. And what about probably one of the greatest home run coaching hires of all time in Billy Donovan. If we were to fire Foley after all his accomplishments as AD just because Muschamp sucked we would look like bunch of ignorant dolts and deservedly so.

Foley is an employee and not above reproach for some bad decisions he's made such as the Muschamp contract and not firing him the year after he went 11-2 (which could be considered reasonable), .but those bad decisions were based on good reasoning and good intentions not incompetence..

 

[stephenPE]

Many people on this board were calling for Foley's job because of the Muschamp

Because many in this post SOS fan base are eat up with dumazzzz. They fail to realize that there are dozens of other D1 schools with money and the want to to become champions. We hit a nasty bump in the quest for a dynasty You dont always hit a homerun or even a double on hires. Our athletic dept is in good shape. We all know the stats and teams that bring us that top 5 finish in NCAA sports each year. In the last two decades we have 3 National titles in FB 2 in basketball and TONS of wins in both sports. 99.9% of the fan bases would give a gonad for that record. Internet forums just prove that morons can go online, get a screen name and demonstrate their complete lack of perspective and commons sense.

 

[TLB]

This is silly. The instant gratification monster raises it's ugly head once again. :rolleyes:

Firing someone who was deemed by his peers too be one of the best in the business just because he made a bad call on someone who at the time was considered to be a solid and reasonable hire. I seem to remember the fire Foley crowd pulling out many of the same arguments when he hired a relatively unknown guy named McElwain. And what about probably one of the greatest home run coaching hires of all time in Billy Donovan. If we were to fire Foley after all his accomplishments as AD just because Muschamp sucked we would look like bunch of ignorant dolts and deservedly so.

Foley is an employee and not above reproach for some bad decisions he's made such as the Muschamp contract and not firing him the year after he went 11-2 (which could be considered reasonable), .but those bad decisions were were based on good reasoning and good intentions not incompetence..

Dead on. But, the thought of Billy D rang a bell in my head - what was the situation with his hiring? 20 yrs ago it was a different world as AOL dial up constricted our internet access, social media didn't really exist, and the G'ville Sun was perceived as a quality source for Gator sports information. Had we the same ubiquitious web data available with tweets and websites over eager to report, or twist facts for headlines, how would it have gone?

We just finished 6 years of Kruger-ball, and he ditched us for Illinois. We'd had ONE final four appearance, and for all purposes we were a football school - your drunk uncle Joe could be the Basketball coach, lose all the games, and it generally wouldn't matter. That's how important basketball was to Florida, that's how attractive the job was....we were ditched for Illinois. One could say that Foley couldn't fail with this hire as it wasn't football, so it didn't matter.

He hired a guy who played Providence. PROVIDENCE. How good was he?

Upon graduation, Donovan accepted an athletic scholarship to Providence College in Providence, Rhode Island. He was not a starter during his first two seasons with the Providence Friars men's basketball team and averaged two points per game as a freshman and three as a sophomore. When New York Knicks assistant coach Rick Pitino became Providence's new head coach in 1985, Donovan informed him that he would like to transfer to Fairfield or Northeastern to get more playing time. However, when Pitino called the coaches of those smaller conference schools on Donovan's behalf, they declined to offer him a scholarship, so Pitino advised Donovan to stay at Providence and get himself into better physical shape for the upcoming season.

Donovan flourished in Pitino's system, which emphasized the new three-point shot on offense and a fast-paced full-court press defense. "Billy the Kid," as Providence fans soon nicknamed him (after the 19th century outlaw), averaged 15.1 points as a junior and 20.6 as a senior, when he led the 6th-seed Friars to the 1987 Final Four and earned Southeast Regional Most Valuable Player honors. Donovan was also named to the 1987 All-Big East first team, the 1987 Big East All-Tournament team, and was an honorable mention All-American. Pitino would later say, "I've never in my life had anyone work as hard to improve as (Donovan).

Ok, so what about NBA experience?

Donovan was drafted by the Utah Jazz in the third round (68th overall) of the 1987 NBA Draft, but was waived before the regular season began. He signed with the Wyoming Wildcatters of the Continental Basketball Association, hoping for another chance to play in the NBA. Rick Pitino left Providence after the team's Final Four run and returned to New York as the head coach of the New York Knicks. In December 1987, Donovan was reunited with his college coach when the Knicks signed him to a one-year contract. He served as a reserve guard for the remainder of the 1987-88 season and averaged 2.4 points and 2.0 assists over 44 games. The next season Donovan played with the CBA's Rapid City Thrillers, averaging 10.1 points per game

Uh-huh. So, as a player....meh. He worked is ass off his last two years at Providence, but before, and after....meh. What about coaching? He worked under Pitino at KY for 5 yrs. Then 2 years as HC at Marshall. MARSHALL! Going 18-9, and 17-11....so winning, but in what conference, against what competition? So what was Foley thinking?

Florida athletic director Jeremy Foley sought a "young, energetic, and enthusiastic" coach to bring sustained success, and after a wide-ranging search, he decided that 30-year-old Billy Donovan was the best fit. To assure Donovan that he would be given enough time to build up the program, Foley offered him a six-year contract.

SIX YEARS?!?!?!?!?! And this was two decades ago!!!


So we sign a guy who's only HC work was at Marshall for all of two years. Yeah, he came off a winning tree having helped Pitino and UK to an NC, but c'mon...a six year contract right out of the gate?

How does Billy D compare with JMac? A guy with only 3 years as a HC (going 4-8, 8-6, 10-2) showing progress, but against what competition? In what conference? And he comes of Saban's coaching tree? And he has NC experience with that winning program? And he gets a SIX YEAR deal right out of the gate?

What is Foley thinking with JMac?

How bad would he have been criticized for the Donovan hire if twitter and social media were then what they are today?

I get the fact that expectations are different - JMac is supposed to get a winning program back to winning ways, Billy didn't have that to live up to. But consider that JMac had an established program in Florida that would hep with recruiting, brand recognition as players can be a part of rebuilding the greatness that was. Consider that Billy had to sell players on a program that didn't offer much (no real history, no real fan base, no real March Madness opportunities to stand upon or even conference reputation to rebuild or sustaining), and he had to sell it on HIM and HIS PLAN. To me, JMac may have faced higher expectations, but Billy had the harder job. I trust Foley on both counts.

 

[lagator]

I don't really give much of a sh*t about Foley. He's a high level administrator at a premier public university in the most fertile recruiting grounds for athletic talent in probably the world. No kidding we should expect elite coaches across the board. They're going to be working with the best athletes with top notch facilities offering them excellent academics with almost endless subjects of study and career paths. I remember when I was a student in the 80's there was a stat that showed if UF athletes in the Olympics were entered as a country we would have finished 11th or something in metal count.

Foley has benefited immensely from the greatness of this University. Has the University benefited from Foley? Sure. But like Mac is always saying, just do your job. That's Foley's job that he is extremely well compensated for. We don't have to kiss his azz or rub his belly every time he doesn't fuk it up.

 

[T REX]

One has nothing to do with the other.

However, I find it odd that many here wanted to blame Foley for Muschamp's failures but refuse to praise Foley for McElwain's successes.

If a select few on here were willing to separate the fact that only the hiring and firing of coaches is on Foley while the successes and failures on the field are NOT on Foley then a bunch of hatred toward Foley would disappear.

Flame away...

I'm going to have to agree. I said I'd be the first and right now Foley looks vindicated for Zook and Chump(this was just a complete failure on many levels....the hire, the extension and the extra year of keeping him).

In all honesty, he should get tons of credit for the hire turning out great. It's only 6 games but damn...it's nice to enjoy game day again.

Give me that crow buffet. I'll be here a while.

 

[Jake from State Farm]

I never called for Foley's job but I was and am critical of the extension he gave WM. It should have never happened but hindsight is always 20/20

 

[Swamp Donkey]

The same people who think any cotton candy salesman monkey could run the athletic department as well as Fooley and manage not to fvkk up completely at least half the time still think so.

The same people who think Fooley is the best in the business and a shoe-in for the next SEC or Big 12 Commish job still think so.

Why do this again?

 

[Swamp Donkey]

I've always lurked around here and listen to the podcast every single week, even though I didn't post here.

Why, Alpha? You were active on GSMB.

Post more. Bring friends.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Donovan, Walton, Rhonda Faehn, Sully, just to name a few.

No one gives a shiit. You can try polling Gator fans and find how many even recognize the other names except Donovan. Then, just for fun, find out how many have actually been to a basketball game.

Yes, he is the athletic director. He is the athletic director of a football school where football pays for everything. He is the athletic director of a football school which is the flagship in the only state that matters for recruiting and he has a budget that is more thn his next two in-state rivals combined. Two of his four hires were monumental failures. That batting average gets you fired. Hell, one monunmental fvkk up gets you fired at most football schools, see Texass and Trailerbammer.

On top of the the multiple terrible hires, he let our facilities decay to the point of being laughingstocks and having even our own players compare us to Vandy. Luckily Mac seems to have managed to force him to abandon that position.

The good news is he is gone before the next hire regardless, so there is no sense in debating it any longer.

I'm done. Have fun. Post some wiki stuff about gymnastics if you want.

 

[Jabberdave]

Law gonna Law.

 

[t-gator]

Apparently law himself has never been to a basketball game.

 

[MJMGator]

Apparently law himself has never been to a basketball game.

I would venture to guess more than half of our members have to been to see Gator hoops in person.

 

[Jabberdave]

Law rides the short bus. He knows how to do two things; chew gum and that's it.

 

[Captain Sasquatch]

Still obsessed, are we??

 

[t-gator]

I would venture to guess more than half of our members have to been to see Gator hoops in person.

If not more. I think our record at home over the years is a good reflection of how good of a turn out we get and how rowdy our fanbase is. One of the toughest places to play in the country.

 

[Okeechobee Joe]

An SEC athletic director is only as good as his last head football coach hire.

An SEC head football coach is only as good as his last game.

An SEC quarterback is only as good as his last play.

You're either great or you suck. That's the way it is in SEC football.

 

[SGG]

No one gives a shiit. You can try polling Gator fans and find how many even recognize the other names except Donovan. Then, just for fun, find out how many have actually been to a basketball game.

Yes, he is the athletic director. He is the athletic director of a football school where football pays for everything. He is the athletic director of a football school which is the flagship in the only state that matters for recruiting and he has a budget that is more thn his next two in-state rivals combined. Two of his four hires were monumental failures. That batting average gets you fired. Hell, one monunmental fvkk up gets you fired at most football schools, see Texass and Trailerbammer.

On top of the the multiple terrible hires, he let our facilities decay to the point of being laughingstocks and having even our own players compare us to Vandy. Luckily Mac seems to have managed to force him to abandon that position.

The good news is he is gone before the next hire regardless, so there is no sense in debating it any longer.

I'm done. Have fun. Post some wiki stuff about gymnastics if you want.

This made me giggle.

 

[The Original DC]

Foley has benefited immensely from the greatness of this University. .

A lot of good points in your post, but here is what it misses; The athletic "greatness" of the University was scattered, underwhelming, and in many cases, nonexistent before Foley. It's as if the Foley detractors want to attribute his success to fluke, or good timing, as opposed to the results of his leadership. Whatever you attribute it to, the timing of the incredible turn-around in UF athletic dominance coincides almost directly with Foley coming on board. Simply put, EVERYTHING took off when he became AD or shortly thereafter. What does he have, 22 SEC all-sports trophies under his leadership while the University had 0 before he got there, zero! That's not a fluke, that's not good timing, that's not "greatness was bestowed upon him simply by showing up" or "benefitting immensely from the greatness of the University." How come nobody before him benefitted immensely from the greatness of the University?

I'm not saying the man is perfect and I'm not saying he should be immune to criticism, but I am saying the folks who want him fired because they were in the throws of a temper tantrum based off of two crappy years of football, are as close as this fan base gets to looking, acting and sounding like Tennessee fans. It's absurd.

 

[Jand3k]

A lot of good points in your post, but here is what is misses; The athletic "greatness" of the University was scattered, underwhelming, and in many cases, nonexistent before Foley. It's as if the Foley detractors want to attribute his success to fluke, or good timing, as opposed to the results of his leadership. Whatever you attribute it to, the timing of the incredible turn-around in UF athletic dominance coincides almost directly with Foley coming on board. Simply put, EVERYTHING took off when he became AD or shortly thereafter. What does he have, 22 SEC all-sports trophies under his leadership while the University had 0 before he got there, zero! That's not a fluke, that's not good timing, that's not "greatness was bestowed upon him simply by showing up" or "benefitting immensely from the greatness of the University." How come nobody before him benefitted immensely from the greatness of the University?

I'm not saying the man is perfect and I'm not saying he should be immune to criticism, but I am saying the folks who want him fired because they were in the throws of a temper tantrum based off of two crappy years of football, are as close as this fan base gets to looking, acting and sounding like Tennessee fans. It's absurd.

QFT!!



IGTBAFG

 

[ufgator2002]

A lot of good points in your post, but here is what it misses; The athletic "greatness" of the University was scattered, underwhelming, and in many cases, nonexistent before Foley. It's as if the Foley detractors want to attribute his success to fluke, or good timing, as opposed to the results of his leadership. Whatever you attribute it to, the timing of the incredible turn-around in UF athletic dominance coincides almost directly with Foley coming on board. Simply put, EVERYTHING took off when he became AD or shortly thereafter. What does he have, 22 SEC all-sports trophies under his leadership while the University had 0 before he got there, zero! That's not a fluke, that's not good timing, that's not "greatness was bestowed upon him simply by showing up" or "benefitting immensely from the greatness of the University." How come nobody before him benefitted immensely from the greatness of the University?

I'm not saying the man is perfect and I'm not saying he should be immune to criticism, but I am saying the folks who want him fired because they were in the throws of a temper tantrum based off of two crappy years of football, are as close as this fan base gets to looking, acting and sounding like Tennessee fans. It's absurd.