Larry Bird, GOAT?

[T REX]

This is really cool...

 

[T REX]

This is also an awesome one...though I always think of Sexual Chocolate...

 

[oxrageous]

I watched that "NBA Superstars" VHS tape about a million times in 1989/90 as a 13/14 year old. I can break down those videos above by heart. As a result, I can't listen to any of the songs in that video and not think of the players. When I hear "Small Town" or "The Warrior" all I can think of is Larry Bird and Charles Barkley to this day.

 

[78]

You guys don't take the history of the game into account, nor the fact that the NBA isn't really basketball anymore. MJ peaked his head out when the league just expanded 4 new teams. Outside of center he had a great cast. Anyone really think Parrish or AC Green were worth their accolades. Magic and Bird made their teammates better, MJ did not. If you want to go by today's definition where it's an individuals game and the stars get the calls and the league office determines who the stars are, then give me MJ, Kobe and LeBron. But if you want to use the definition that it's a team game and you can only take two steps, give me Magic, Oscar, and Bird.

As for Russell, he's the only guy who could handle Wilt. Shaq is just big, he fouls out constantly if he plays a decade sooner. Wilt is legit tho, as well as Lou Alcindor. Tim Duncan and Hakeem would be great in any era

Quasimodo, is that you?

The ultimate barometer of greatness is not whether he made his teammates better, but how much better he made his team. Jordan was a more complete player, a better scorer, a better defender, the ultimate clutch time performer and the greatest competitor of any era. He took over games. He was the equivalent to two or three great players on the roster.

Jordan won six titles with Scottie Pippen and a band of role players. No one made his team better.

 

[alcoholica]

Quasimodo, is that you?

The ultimate barometer of greatness is not whether he made his teammates better, but how much better he made his team. Jordan was a more complete player, a better scorer, a better defender, the ultimate clutch time performer and the greatest competitor of any era. He took over games. He was the equivalent to two or three great players on the roster.

Jordan won six titles with Scottie Pippen and a band of role players. No one made his team better.

You're right, I'm sure by elevating every player on their team that Magic and Bird made their teams worse.

 

[Captain Sasquatch]

He's definitely a top 5 player of all time.

Jordan is by himself.

Magic, Bird, and Wilt are probably the next three in whichever order.

Then there probably around 10 of them that are in the same class. That would include LeBron, Kobe, Oscar, etc...

Two days late, but I fully support this post.

 

[stephenPE]

Hard to argue about MJ. Very few guard led teams won NBA titles with non HOF big men and he did it so many times. Bird was that great too with his brilliance on the court but

This is really cool...

Good find Rex. Unseld was a bad azzz inside and about 6 7
I think Barkley was under rated. 6 4 PF and held his own with much bigger guys

 

[oxrageous]

Would players like Kevin McHale and Robert Parish have been HOF'ers if they hadn't played with Bird most of their careers? I say no. Hell, I never thought James Worthy would have even sniffed the Hall without Magic - he could never had carried a team on his own. Those guys were solid players, but Bird and Magic put them in the Hall.

 

[78]

You're right, I'm sure by elevating every player on their team that Magic and Bird made their teams worse.

I suggest we try this exercise.

Which of these three rosters is most profoundly impacted by deletion of the player in bold?

McHale
Bird
Parrish
Johnson
Ainge

Green
Worthy
Abdul-Jabbar
Johnson
Scott

Rodman
Pippen
Longley
Harper
Jordan

 

[deuce]

Quasimodo, is that you?

The ultimate barometer of greatness is not whether he made his teammates better, but how much better he made his team. Jordan was a more complete player, a better scorer, a better defender, the ultimate clutch time performer and the greatest competitor of any era. He took over games. He was the equivalent to two or three great players on the roster.

Jordan won six titles with Scottie Pippen and a band of role players. No one made his team better.

Russell won 11 titles as player and coach, no one was a better team player.

 

[deuce]

I suggest we try this exercise.

Which of these three rosters is most profoundly impacted by deletion of the player in bold?

McHale
Bird
Parrish
Johnson
Ainge

Green
Worthy
Abdul-Jabbar
Johnson
Scott

Rodman
Pippen
Longley
Harper
Jordan

Jordan probably but none of those teams would have won without the players in bold.

 

[78]

Russell won 11 titles as player and coach, no one was a better team player.

He had a better supporting cast. Much better. Havlicek off the bench? Much, much better.

 

[alcoholica]

I suggest we try this exercise.

Which of these three rosters is most profoundly impacted by deletion of the player in bold?

McHale
Bird
Parrish
Johnson
Ainge

Green
Worthy
Abdul-Jabbar
Johnson
Scott

Rodman
Pippen
Longley
Harper
Jordan

Well for Chicago it already looks like you deleted Kerr and Kukoc. BTW, they were still the 3rd best team in the East when he retired the first time.

 

[oxrageous]

Yeah, the Bulls still won 55+ games without Jordan in 1995. They never would have sniffed a title, however.

 

[78]

Well for Chicago it already looks like you deleted Kerr and Kukoc. BTW, they were still the 3rd best team in the East when he retired the first time.

If not for a phantom foul of Hubert Davis, they were the best, but I'm not sure it's that meaningful. The rest of the East was pretty average that season.

 

[alcoholica]

If not for a phantom foul of Hubert Davis, they were the best, but I'm not sure it's that meaningful. The rest of the East was pretty average that season.

I was just going by their seeding. They were every bit as good as NY who went to the Finals. They probably make it if Pippen isn't a bytch about Kukoc getting shots.

 

[78]

I was just going by their seeding. They were every bit as good as NY who went to the Finals. They probably make it if Pippen isn't a bytch about Kukoc getting shots.

He deserves criticism for that, but in fact it was his best season. You could have made the case for him being the league MVP based on his all-around play in 1994-95.

 

[78]

Would players like Kevin McHale and Robert Parish have been HOF'ers if they hadn't played with Bird most of their careers? I say no. Hell, I never thought James Worthy would have even sniffed the Hall without Magic - he could never had carried a team on his own. Those guys were solid players, but Bird and Magic put them in the Hall.

Probably not. McHale was an excellent scorer in the paint and he also benefitted from the attention Bird drew as a shotmaker and passer. Bird was a great, great player, just not as good as MJ in my opinion.

 

[alcoholica]