Post Camp Position Grades by Thomas Goldkamp

[sonomagator]

There's a guy I've known for about 25 years who used to play both ways back in the 50's and 60's for the 49ers, he played O and D tackle, he still works for them , he's involved with scouting and evaluating both lines. What he's told me over the years is that one problem they have is that in HS they are so much bigger than everyone else that they don't learn proper techniques , and some HS coaches don't care as long as the big guys open up the holes in HS. Also that some of the smaller ones who do have the technical skills have trouble with the weight and strength gain. It's why conventional wisdom is that OLinemen should in a perfect world redshirt to learn what they need to know and get used to the speed etc. Unfortunately we haven't had that luxury for the last few years for one reason or another.and yeah J Humps a good example the kid should have red shirted but unfortunately we couldn't, Ii also think that Daz was over whelmed with being the line coach,OC and Qb coach so our line suffered from him through that guy valdacci or whatever that Cheeseburger brought with him and ending with Davis. Hopefully Summers can coach em up. Either or I'll take a B- over last year.

 

[EuroGator]

There is a lot more to the OL then being big, strong, and athletic. You have to keep someone who is slightly less big, usually more athletic, and around the same strength from getting away from you, without "holding" or taking too long if it is a run play. It is the little things like a proper kick-step with your shoulders square, or a bone crushing hands open punch to the center of mass of a D lineman to stop his momentum, that takes time to master. It's not enough to be talented, you have to think on your feet with pre/post snap reads while still playing fast. It takes repetition to the point of it becoming second nature to become successful.

"...or a bone crushing hands open punch to the center of mass of a D lineman to stop his momentum, that takes time to master."

Hmmmm...we should bring in Mr. Miyagi to help with some of this training. ...or Sensei Kreese! Just out of curiosity, it's totally legal on the line to sweep the leg, right?

 

[TN G8tr]

I think Summers has what the OL has been missing for a while now. Hopefully he coaches them up and injuries won't be an issue. I know we have only 7 with expereince but with the newer guys we have games that will allow them to get some valuable experience. Heck it has to be better than last year. Simply insert Summers over Davis and we have improvment already. Not to mention that Roper's main issue is for the QB's to get rid of the ball in 3 sec. or less. This alone with the coaching should take some of the pressure off the OL.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

It's not really all that complicated or elegant.

It really is the most complicated thing on the field, with perhaps only QB being more complicated depending on the system. They must take a look at the defense and determining which 5 are going to get blocked and by whom. The center especially, with the assistance of the QB who obviously has a better view of the d, must make all the line calls. If those two aren't getting it, blitzers have free reign as they have the last few years.

The really easy positions to play are receiver and RB.

 

[SaltGator]

Hopefully Ropers offensive philosophy of getting the ball out quickly/3 seconds will also help the O line, as they may not have to hold their blocks as long.

 

[GatorJ]

Not too much. These love handles are getting a bit outta control.

 

[GatorJ]

There's a guy I've known for about 25 years who used to play both ways back in the 50's and 60's for the 49ers, he played O and D tackle, he still works for them , he's involved with scouting and evaluating both lines. What he's told me over the years is that one problem they have is that in HS they are so much bigger than everyone else that they don't learn proper techniques , and some HS coaches don't care as long as the big guys open up the holes in HS. Also that some of the smaller ones who do have the technical skills have trouble with the weight and strength gain. It's why conventional wisdom is that OLinemen should in a perfect world redshirt to learn what they need to know and get used to the speed etc. Unfortunately we haven't had that luxury for the last few years for one reason or another.and yeah J Humps a good example the kid should have red shirted but unfortunately we couldn't, Ii also think that Daz was over whelmed with being the line coach,OC and Qb coach so our line suffered from him through that guy valdacci or whatever that Cheeseburger brought with him and ending with Davis. Hopefully Summers can coach em up. Either or I'll take a B- over last year.

Great post Sonoma. I agree with every part of this post. Addazio was a great line coach and an average OC at best. Combining both allowed his lesser responsibility (O-line) to suffer. Then the revolving door at Oline coach: Addazio, Verducci, Davis - caused stunts in development. One reason that Bama has had great success is that they've had minimal changes in coaching. They had their first major change in coaching last year and they stuttered a bit as a team.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

I will be honest I only read the first sentence and assumed you and concrete helmet were pretty much bashing our local insider. He went on some long rant on another thread. I apologize. And yes I remember you telling me about Jackson .

I never bashed Thomas, in fact I said twice in my post that I appreciated his reports..... All I said was that Roper uses the B position pre and post snap to chip the defensive end or outside rusher. We are not in as much trouble here as some would think. I suggest some people you tube some of Ropers past work and not just to get excited about the new offense. Actually watch the movements of the offensive players right before and after the snap. I said in another post or maybe the same one that Auburns offensive line did not just "get good" last year. It was coaching and a system change that made teams almost fear rushing the passer because the damage the QB could do running.
I simply would suggest that a lot of the naysayers at least wait until the season starts before they continuously b!tch about something that may or may not be a problem at all.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Here's the thing I've never really understood about offensive linemen....... Why is it that one, big strong athletic guy can be good at being an offensive lineman and another big, strong athletic guy sucks at it? Same size, same strength, etc. I mean, offensive line is basically using your leverage and strength to go mano a mano against a defensive lineman. It's not really all that complicated or elegant. Just hold off or shove a guy out of the way. So why the hell does it seem so difficult for some of our guys to master? Unless we have recruited skinny weak linemen (which based on their size and weight lifting records they don't appear to be) there should be parity and depth all across the offensive line. There shouldn't be such a drop off from first to second string.

Because in HS being big and strong usually wins. In CFB big and strong with great technique usually wins.......IF it is applied correctly in the right system. There are ways around not having the best offensive linemen and still winning a lot of football games.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

There is a lot more to the OL then being big, strong, and athletic. You have to keep someone who is slightly less big, usually more athletic, and around the same strength from getting away from you, without "holding" or taking too long if it is a run play. It is the little things like a proper kick-step with your shoulders square, or a bone crushing hands open punch to the center of mass of a D lineman to stop his momentum, that takes time to master. It's not enough to be talented, you have to think on your feet with pre/post snap reads while still playing fast. It takes repetition to the point of it becoming second nature to become successful.

Great post JC.

 

[divits]

It really is the most complicated thing on the field, with perhaps only QB being more complicated depending on the system. They must take a look at the defense and determining which 5 are going to get blocked and by whom. The center especially, with the assistance of the QB who obviously has a better view of the d, must make all the line calls. If those two aren't getting it, blitzers have free reign as they have the last few years.

The really easy positions to play are receiver and RB.

Having played TE and DE in high school I'm familiar with line calls. Providing you have guys who halfway have a clue it's really not that complicated (which makes your point about our inability to pick up blitzes that much more disturbing). But my original point was about physically being able to block. These guys are all 300 or so pounds and all are pretty strong. I don't understand why there is such a drop off from one strong 300 pounder to the next. I understand technique and all, but let's face it, it shouldn't take years to learn how to shuffle your feet and come up under a guys shoulder pads with your hands. I guess the main intangibles are having aggressivness and a mean streak. Some got it and some don't. Apparently we need to recruit more fire breathing badasses.

 

[Gator Fever]

So with the offense getting A's and B's pretty much across the board, does that mean we are expecting to score 30+ per game?

Yes...

 

[maheo30]

Here's the thing I've never really understood about offensive linemen....... Why is it that one, big strong athletic guy can be good at being an offensive lineman and another big, strong athletic guy sucks at it? Same size, same strength, etc. I mean, offensive line is basically using your leverage and strength to go mano a mano against a defensive lineman. It's not really all that complicated or elegant. Just hold off or shove a guy out of the way. So why the hell does it seem so difficult for some of our guys to master? Unless we have recruited skinny weak linemen (which based on their size and weight lifting records they don't appear to be) there should be parity and depth all across the offensive line. There shouldn't be such a drop off from first to second string.

Not elegant? Clearly you are someone who doesn't appreciate the footwork involved in being a lineman, especially when it comes to being a tackle.

 

[GatorInKnox]

Having played TE and DE in high school I'm familiar with line calls. Providing you have guys who halfway have a clue it's really not that complicated (which makes your point about our inability to pick up blitzes that much more disturbing). But my original point was about physically being able to block. These guys are all 300 or so pounds and all are pretty strong. I don't understand why there is such a drop off from one strong 300 pounder to the next. I understand technique and all, but let's face it, it shouldn't take years to learn how to shuffle your feet and come up under a guys shoulder pads with your hands. I guess the main intangibles are having aggressivness and a mean streak. Some got it and some don't. Apparently we need to recruit more fire breathing badasses.

In my own analysis (which doesn't say much) our problem hasn't been strength on the line. That's why we've always been decent to good at run blocking. It does take a ridiculous amount of athleticism to block an SEC defensive end but technique and knowing what the eff you're doing definitely plays a part of it. A half second hesitation from not knowing who to block or how can be all the difference.

 

[divits]

Here's the thing I've never really understood about offensive linemen....... Why is it that one, big strong athletic guy can be good at being an offensive lineman and another big, strong athletic guy sucks at it? Same size, same strength, etc. I mean, offensive line is basically using your leverage and strength to go mano a mano against a defensive lineman. It's not really all that complicated or elegant. Just hold off or shove a guy out of the way. So why the hell does it seem so difficult for some of our guys to master? Unless we have recruited skinny weak linemen (which based on their size and weight lifting records they don't appear to be) there should be parity and depth all across the offensive line. There shouldn't be such a drop off from first to second string.

I'm sorry but it's just not that hard to learn to move your feet. It's just not. It's certainly not something that should take years to perfect.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

These guys are all 300 or so pounds and all are pretty strong. I don't understand why there is such a drop off from one strong 300 pounder to the next. I understand technique and all, but let's face it, it shouldn't take years to learn how to shuffle your feet and come up under a guys shoulder pads with your hands. I guess the main intangibles are having aggressivness and a mean streak. Some got it and some don't.

I don't think that's the problem. I think it's quickly recognizing who's coming and who to block. That why we have seen so many times that the backer comes on a delayed blitz, the guard moves to him (and maybe misses) meanwhile the tackle takes the DE and the DT goes free also.

Of course, with Humphreys, it seems to just be a speed thing. He can't get into position and set quickly enough from what I've heard, so he's vulnerable to both speed and bull rushes.

As you know, run blocking is a bunch easier for newer linemen. They just pick a helmet and execute. Perhaps all this spread pass option stuff will make it easier on the linemen.

 

[oxrageous]

There is a lot more to the OL then being big, strong, and athletic. You have to keep someone who is slightly less big, usually more athletic, and around the same strength from getting away from you, without "holding" or taking too long if it is a run play. It is the little things like a proper kick-step with your shoulders square, or a bone crushing hands open punch to the center of mass of a D lineman to stop his momentum, that takes time to master. It's not enough to be talented, you have to think on your feet with pre/post snap reads while still playing fast. It takes repetition to the point of it becoming second nature to become successful.

JC knows a thing or two about the OL. This is him:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Jonathan-Chunn-117391

 

[Swamp Donkey]

There is a lot more to the OL then being big, strong, and athletic. You have to keep someone who is slightly less big, usually more athletic, and around the same strength from getting away from you, without "holding" or taking too long if it is a run play. It is the little things like a proper kick-step with your shoulders square, or a bone crushing hands open punch to the center of mass of a D lineman to stop his momentum, that takes time to master. It's not enough to be talented, you have to think on your feet with pre/post snap reads while still playing fast. It takes repetition to the point of it becoming second nature to become successful.

JC knows a thing or two about the OL. This is him:

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Jonathan-Chunn-117391

I never know if you are serious.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Not sure if anyone saw Muschamp's presser today but Rod Johnson will start working in reps at the left tackle position......hmmm.....they said they thought about working Green in there but decided Johnson has done so well working at right tackle that they want to see how he does on the left side. I wonder if they might be thinking Johnson could outperform DJ ? They also mentioned Brown has done well on his reps at Tackle.

 

[sonomagator]

Lol I'll make it lite butter then