Reverse Engineering Coaching Hires

[BMF]

It's a search. First decide on the job requirements. Then you look for candidates. Put feelers out.
Franklin has turned around two programs.
Gundy wins about as much as can be done at Ok State
Fuente maybe. Did some good things at Memphis. Now Va Tech.

I'm sure there's others but those 3 are proven.

Whether or not they'd jump or we'd pay for them is a different story.

TM, I give you credit and an A for effort. Those guys aren't leaving their programs to take our job. Period. It's a nice thought, but those guys are staying put.

After we put out feelers.....and get turned down. Who's next? Scott Frost, PJ Fleck, and a long list of other coaches at middle-of-the-road programs.

I do understand where you're coming from, but I'm a realist. UF is not the program that many fans think it is. We're a "football school" and there are plenty of those around the country.

 

[CU-UF]

Threat is in deep man-love with Gundy. I disagree with him but I understand his opinion. Everyone needs to realize that there are no "sure things" that are available. Even folks that have had success in one place does not necessarily mean they will have success in another. It sucks, because if we do make a change, it will probably be someone that, like Champ and Mac, will at best have lukewarm support from fans and hence another short leash and the cycle will begin again. I hate to admit, but the first call would have to be to Chip and or Quinn, dont think either would bite, but if they did, you might get an energized fan base. Otherwise we are in the high stakes gamble world again, looking at unproven guys like Brohm and Frost.

 

[jmskjrgator]

At least we haven’t become a graveyard for coaches like Tenn has. Our HCs get new
HCing positions afterwards. I hope the change happens ASAP. There are good HCs out there that know they can take the talent we get and do well.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

TM, I give you credit and an A for effort. Those guys aren't leaving their programs to take our job. Period.

It's a nice thought, but those guys are staying put.

And you call me the dumper.

First the money, we are still a top 10 institution. We can pay more than any of those small hick town colleges can. inexplicably we do so and all the nonrevenue making sports.

We are also a state with no income tax. Few can compare. that's a big deal when you're in there tax brackets.

Competitiveness. I've never been to Stillwell but I have been OKC. If you like tossing cow patties and dodging tumbleweeds and tornadoes, I guess it's a nice area. one thing is for sure though no one will ever win a championship out of those places.

Coaches are A+++ people, the good ones anyway, so surely a championship resume is a goal for most.

things are tougher now because of all the ESPN money to the various conferences mean that we're not the only one with a little cash in your pocket but there are still plenty of people willing to leave to go someplace for a bigger opportunity.

Bert left the two time Big Ten champs to go to Arky and Gundy was sniffing around for a job then too.

if it ends up being Crouch strong somebody like that oh well. You no I won't like the wide receivers being underutilized, but at least we aren't stuck with Sabanized coaches that despise offense.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

TM, I give you credit and an A for effort. Those guys aren't leaving their programs to take our job. Period. It's a nice thought, but those guys are staying put.

After we put out feelers.....and get turned down. Who's next? Scott Frost, PJ Fleck, and a long list of other coaches at middle-of-the-road programs.

I do understand where you're coming from, but I'm a realist. UF is not the program that many fans think it is. We're a "football school" and there are plenty of those around the country.

Hey man. If you want to bottom feed knock urself out. I really don't care who you name. Have fun.

 

[BMF]

Hey man. If you want to bottom feed knock urself out. I really don't care who you name. Have fun.

Well, if bottom feeding is being realistic then sure.... While you're putting out feelers on Fuente, Franklin, and Gundy see if Bob Stoops, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer, or Dabo are interested.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Let me ask you this. How well does Frost prepare in big games? You can't answer that because he hasn't played any. How does Frost do against ranked teams? You don't know because he hasn't played any. Frost has more question marks than answers at this point in his career.
Will somebody desperate make a run at him? Sure. Are we desperate? Sure. But we can't afford to make another mistake on an unproven coach. The next guy better have a proven pedigree.
As far as feelers, out of who you listed, both Fuente and Gundy are gettable. Fuente is at Va Tech. Gundy at OK St. Florida is a step up both in terms of conference and resources. Gundy has been at Ok St. for 15? years. He's done all that he can do there. Ok St. is the 2nd rate team in it's state and the 3rd rate team in that conference. Gundy may be ready to test his skills where he can be the big dog.
And I'm not enamored with Gundy. I'm looking at coaches that
a) Have winning records (10-12 win seasons)
b) Are at schools one rung down (i.e. who could benefit from UF's resources.)

Herman was last year's Frost. A one season, one-hit wonder. His start at Texas hasn't been very impressive and time will tell if he amounts to anything. I'm just not interested in taking a chance on a flash in the pan. That may mean we have to wait a little longer for the right guy but I'd rather wait than be repeating this process 3-4 years from now. No more of Foley's Follies with up-and-comers and diamonds-in-the-rough.

 

[soflagator]

Let me ask you this. How well does Frost prepare in big games? You can't answer that because he hasn't played any. How does Frost do against ranked teams? You don't know because he hasn't played any. Frost has more question marks than answers at this point in his career.
Will somebody desperate make a run at him? Sure. Are we desperate? Sure. But we can't afford to make another mistake on an unproven coach. The next guy better have a proven pedigree.
As far as feelers, out of who you listed, both Fuente and Gundy are gettable. Fuente is at Va Tech. Gundy at OK St. Florida is a step up both in terms of conference and resources. Gundy has been at Ok St. for 15? years. He's done all that he can do there. Ok St. is the 2nd rate team in it's state and the 3rd rate team in that conference. Gundy may be ready to test his skills where he can be the big dog.
And I'm not enamored with Gundy. I'm looking at coaches that
a) Have winning records (10-12 win seasons)
b) Are at schools one rung down (i.e. who could benefit from UF's resources.)

Herman was last year's Frost. A one season, one-hit wonder. His start at Texas hasn't been very impressive and time will tell if he amounts to anything. I'm just not interested in taking a chance on a flash in the pan. That may mean we have to wait a little longer for the right guy but I'd rather wait than be repeating this process 3-4 years from now. No more of Foley's Follies with up-and-comers and diamonds-in-the-rough.

I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning that we can't strike out again. But I think the difference between a guy like Frost and WM or McElwain is that, as you say, he is the talk of college football right now. Everything from his energy in recruiting, to his record, to his lining up to play QB in practice, is infectious. That's what guys like Meyer and Franklin were known for as well. It's hard to ignore what they're doing.

That simply wasn't the case with either of our last two hires. WM was a complete unknown to whom even his current employer Texas wasn't totally prepared to turn over the reigns. And JM was semi-proven, but far from a name that resonated with anyone outside of a select few. And worse yet, we needed him to come in and rebuild a brand, despite little to no relationship with anyone in our region.

If nothing else, a guy like Frost would immediately strike fear in our rivals and would be able to rebuild the talent through recruiting. People are watching UCF right now. That alone would make him worth the shot.

 

[BMF]

Let me ask you this. How well does Frost prepare in big games? You can't answer that because he hasn't played any. How does Frost do against ranked teams? You don't know because he hasn't played any. Frost has more question marks than answers at this point in his career.
Will somebody desperate make a run at him? Sure. Are we desperate? Sure. But we can't afford to make another mistake on an unproven coach. The next guy better have a proven pedigree.
As far as feelers, out of who you listed, both Fuente and Gundy are gettable. Fuente is at Va Tech. Gundy at OK St. Florida is a step up both in terms of conference and resources. Gundy has been at Ok St. for 15? years. He's done all that he can do there. Ok St. is the 2nd rate team in it's state and the 3rd rate team in that conference. Gundy may be ready to test his skills where he can be the big dog.
And I'm not enamored with Gundy. I'm looking at coaches that
a) Have winning records (10-12 win seasons)
b) Are at schools one rung down (i.e. who could benefit from UF's resources.)

Herman was last year's Frost. A one season, one-hit wonder. His start at Texas hasn't been very impressive and time will tell if he amounts to anything. I'm just not interested in taking a chance on a flash in the pan. That may mean we have to wait a little longer for the right guy but I'd rather wait than be repeating this process 3-4 years from now. No more of Foley's Follies with up-and-comers and diamonds-in-the-rough.

TM, again, I admire that you want to go after those "bigger" names.....and hell, I'd love to get either Gundy or Fuente (Fuente would be my preferred choice of those two). I just don't see it happening. Va Tech has a RABID fan base and living in the Virginia mountains is beautiful and the winters are not nearly as bad as you'd think. He has it all there, from facilities to a top administration to a top conference (that's winnable). Also on Fuente, he had 2 losing seasons at Memphis and 2 winning seasons. His record at Memphis was 26-23 (he's 16-5 through 1.5 seasons at Va Tech). So, on your argument for not hiring Frost - well, Va Tech hired a 26-23 coach from a mid-major.

Gundy has the Big Oil money and is an institution there, they love him. He's an alum (played QB there) and is well entrenched. I just don't see us luring him. He also has 7 seasons of 4 or more losses, a losing season (his first), and 7-6 as recently as 2014. I do think he'd do well at UF, but again, I don't see it happening.

I understand you're concern about Frost and any other Group of 5 coaches....but in this day and age P5 to P5 moves don't happen that often unless it's a Vandy to Penn State type of move.

I agree w/ soflagator's take on Frost. I think he's as much of a "can't miss" as any mid-major/G5 coach out there. Other than him, you go after a lower level P5 coach like Fleck, Brohm, or Doeren, etc...

 

[Okeechobee Joe]

Threat is in deep man-love with Gundy. I disagree with him but I understand his opinion. Everyone needs to realize that there are no "sure things" that are available. Even folks that have had success in one place does not necessarily mean they will have success in another. It sucks, because if we do make a change, it will probably be someone that, like Champ and Mac, will at best have lukewarm support from fans and hence another short leash and the cycle will begin again. I hate to admit, but the first call would have to be to Chip and or Quinn, dont think either would bite, but if they did, you might get an energized fan base. Otherwise we are in the high stakes gamble world again, looking at unproven guys like Brohm and Frost.

You're right on about folks who have had success at one place does not mean they will have success as another. I go back awhile, and this is ancient history to a lot of people, but Doug Dickey had great success at Tennessee and was a hot commodity, but he did not have the same success at Florida, his alma mater. That has always stuck with me. The timing on that hire was not right.

A lot of folks just think you can hire anybody if you throw money at a candidate. Way easier said than done. And again you are right if you don't hire a superstar name then there will be a portion of the fan base unexcited with the new hire if he is only an up-and-comer and the whole cycle starts over again. Wash, dry, and reload.

A coach who is doing really good at a Power - 5 school is not going to want to jump ship to come to UF because he is already doing well in his current job. He has already put a lot into his current job and it's just so hard to go to uproot family and move to another place that is not a guarantee to have the same success at. It's hard for a coach to leave a place he has done well at. He has made promises to the administration, to the players, and to the fans.

One thing that will go a long way to satisfying the Gator fan base is to hire a coach who runs an up-tempo offense with emphasis on the passing game. That's not necessarily the style of football I like the most, but it is the style of football that fits well with our fans expectations If it wins then I am all for it.

One thing is certain. Firing a coach and hiring another one is not as easy as a lot of people believe. But when the time comes it is something that has to be done and a good AD knows when that is.

 

[BMF]

You're right on about folks who have had success at one place does not mean they will have success as another. I go back awhile, and this is ancient history to a lot of people, but Doug Dickey had great success at Tennessee and was a hot commodity, but he did not have the same success at Florida, his alma mater. That has always stuck with me. The timing on that hire was not right.

A lot of folks just think you can hire anybody if you throw money at a candidate. Way easier said than done. And again you are right if you don't hire a superstar name then there will be a portion of the fan base unexcited with the new hire if he is only an up-and-comer and the whole cycle starts over again. Wash, dry, and reload.

A coach who is doing really good at a Power - 5 school is not going to want to jump ship to come to UF because he is already doing well in his current job. He has already put a lot into his current job and it's just so hard to go to uproot family and move to another place that is not a guarantee to have the same success at. It's hard for a coach to leave a place he has done well at. He has made promises to the administration, to the players, and to the fans.

One thing that will go a long way to satisfying the Gator fan base is to hire a coach who runs an up-tempo offense with emphasis on the passing game. That's not necessarily the style of football I like the most, but it is the style of football that fits well with our fans expectations If it wins then I am all for it.

One thing is certain. Firing a coach and hiring another one is not as easy as a lot of people believe. But when the time comes it is something that has to be done and a good AD knows when that is.

Listen to this man!!!

 

[ThreatMatrix]

I don't see Franklin making the move because PSU is as upper tier as Florida. But maybe he wants to come back to the SEC - only one way to find out.
Fuente's overall record at Memphis isn't great and at first I was suspect, but his last two years are when he turned it around - I don't have nay opinion on whether or not he would jump.
I'll still argue that Gundy (or someone like Gundy) is a guy to go after. He makes $4m. We should be paying $6M+ for a quality coach.
I wanted to give Brohm another year to see if he can turn Purdue around but it's not looking good. Plus it's less likely a guy jumps from a P5 conference after only one season.

In any case now it seems we may be making the decision sooner rather than later. I would go after Gundy first because he has a proven record, is well known and would keep the recruiting class together. Worst case he becomes our Richt.
And, at this point, I guess I would go after Frost second. Assuming he finishes the year strong. His name is known locally and would bring some excitement as well as keep the recruiting class together. I've heard it said that a HC either gets it their first year or flounder a bit. Frost certainly seem to have gotten it at UCF so that's not a worry. Whether or not he's ready for the glaring spotlight of UF will remain to be seen.

 

[URGatorBait]

I don't see Franklin making the move because PSU is as upper tier as Florida. But maybe he wants to come back to the SEC - only one way to find out.
Fuente's overall record at Memphis isn't great and at first I was suspect, but his last two years are when he turned it around - I don't have nay opinion on whether or not he would jump.
I'll still argue that Gundy (or someone like Gundy) is a guy to go after. He makes $4m. We should be paying $6M+ for a quality coach.
I wanted to give Brohm another year to see if he can turn Purdue around but it's not looking good. Plus it's less likely a guy jumps from a P5 conference after only one season.

In any case now it seems we may be making the decision sooner rather than later. I would go after Gundy first because he has a proven record, is well known and would keep the recruiting class together. Worst case he becomes our Richt.
And, at this point, I guess I would go after Frost second. Assuming he finishes the year strong. His name is known locally and would bring some excitement as well as keep the recruiting class together. I've heard it said that a HC either gets it their first year or flounder a bit. Frost certainly seem to have gotten it at UCF so that's not a worry. Whether or not he's ready for the glaring spotlight of UF will remain to be seen.

I see you are loosening up to Frost a bit

Oh, and Gundy isn't worth the 4 million he is paid now, much less 6 million you want to offer.

 

[CU-UF]

Oh, and Gundy isn't worth the 4 million he is paid now, much less 6 million you want to offer.

I completely agree, I appreciate that Gundy has done well at OK St, but he hasnt done THAT well. In the last 10 plus years at OK st he has had ample opportunity to win the conference and yet always falls short. He offenses are sure exciting but overall coaching eh. Bottom line, if we are going to completely open up the bank, it shouldnt be on a Gundy. Chip Kelly, sure, Franklin ok, Peterson yes, Dan Quinn. These are folks that have a much higher probably of success taking over a program.

 

[Bait'n Gator]

I'm no A.D. but in my opinion there's only one available home run hire and it's Chip Kelly of course. We desperately need someone to ignite the fan base and the Florida recruits. I know it's probably below a 1% chance he'd actually come but you still have to find out.
We need a get 90,000 people to a spring game kinda hire. And he's the only person with that kind of clout. He'd be the only name on my list until he said no. Also the last offensive guy that wore a visor worked out pretty good.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

I see you are loosening up to Frost a bit

Oh, and Gundy isn't worth the 4 million he is paid now, much less 6 million you want to offer.

I am further assured by my opinion of Gundy because you are in disagreement.

 

[BMF]

I don't see Franklin making the move because PSU is as upper tier as Florida. But maybe he wants to come back to the SEC - only one way to find out.
Fuente's overall record at Memphis isn't great and at first I was suspect, but his last two years are when he turned it around - I don't have nay opinion on whether or not he would jump.
I'll still argue that Gundy (or someone like Gundy) is a guy to go after. He makes $4m. We should be paying $6M+ for a quality coach.
I wanted to give Brohm another year to see if he can turn Purdue around but it's not looking good. Plus it's less likely a guy jumps from a P5 conference after only one season.

In any case now it seems we may be making the decision sooner rather than later. I would go after Gundy first because he has a proven record, is well known and would keep the recruiting class together. Worst case he becomes our Richt.
And, at this point, I guess I would go after Frost second. Assuming he finishes the year strong. His name is known locally and would bring some excitement as well as keep the recruiting class together. I've heard it said that a HC either gets it their first year or flounder a bit. Frost certainly seem to have gotten it at UCF so that's not a worry. Whether or not he's ready for the glaring spotlight of UF will remain to be seen.

TM, you say Frost is winning w/ O'Leary's players (you argued earlier in the thread about how many starters weren't his/were his)....isn't that the same argument someone could make about Fuentes? I personally hate when I hear "oh, he's only winning w/ the last coach's players..." because it's a stupid argument.

 

[soflagator]

I completely agree, I appreciate that Gundy has done well at OK St, but he hasnt done THAT well. In the last 10 plus years at OK st he has had ample opportunity to win the conference and yet always falls short. He offenses are sure exciting but overall coaching eh. Bottom line, if we are going to completely open up the bank, it shouldnt be on a Gundy. Chip Kelly, sure, Franklin ok, Peterson yes, Dan Quinn. These are folks that have a much higher probably of success taking over a program.

I agree. I think we're so starving for offense that we've overlooked that guys like Gundy, Fedora, etc. are just as one sided in their approach as WM was. You still have to have a great defense in this league in order to win it. Those guys treat defense with as much contempt as WM did the offense. It sounds nice to think of 49-42 losses right now, but those will hurt just as much as the 14-10's we've been suffering through and will get equally old after a year or two. I've never felt that they were well-rounded enough to win it all.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

DC's are a dime a dozen or so I've been told.

 

[GatorTruth133]

I'll play this game:

1. Jeff Brohm. He's done more with less. He's got Purdue playing decently well in Year One. That's with the the previous coach left. Imagine what he could do with top tier recruiting.
2. Scott Frost. In my mind, he's going to Nebraska until he goes somewhere else.
3. Mike Norvell. Only loss to Scott Frost, beat UCLA. Also has a top 25 offense.
4. Dino Babers. This is Syracuse's coach. In year two these guys have done well with the talent he inherited. Again, a very week recruiting base for football. I'm not basing this on beating Clemson. These guys competed and gave Miami a game, arguably should have one even with 4 INT's in the first half. Small, but good head coaching track record. Did lose to Middle Tennessee, but his other losses one score to NCSU and 8 points at night at LSU aren't bad. Again, Imagine with Florida talent.
5. Holgerson/Gundy. Hear me out, both of these guys coach at places where it is hard to get a good recruiting class and do well. They have monsters in recruiting like Texas (they can recruit if they aren't producing...yet) and Oklahoma to deal with. Both have top 5 offenses with less talent than they could get here. Part of that is defense failures on opponents, but part is pretty good schemes as well. Imagine with "Florida speed".