What's your best argument against expanding the CFP to eight teams? (Poll!)

[soflagator]

4 seeds have won the same amount of playoffs as 1 seeds multiplied by infinity. AKA 40% of the total.

And the blowouts don't prove anything when it's the lower seed blowing the other team out. Both 4 seeds that won, gave bloodbaths. Alabama in the semis, OSU in the final. Logically incoherent to say that those bloodbaths contribute to the notion that we should keep the playoffs small.

It absolutely contributes to that position. When soon to be nearly 70% of 1 v 4 matchups end up in heavily one-sided games, it says that the 4-seed is quite often outmatched and probably in over its head. I don't think it's purely coincidence the two examples provided where the 4-seed won it all happened to be coached by all-time greats who were arguably the best/second best in the game at the time. When your position hinges on if Urban Meyer or Nick Saban are one of the head coaches involved, I'll gladly pass on making a prediction for those years. And I've stated numerous times that any team, probably within the top 10-15 could theoretically catch fire and beat anyone on any given day. It's just not my preference for the college game, which was the basis for this thread.

But that's also not the only reason given. We keep talking about arbitrary and subjective reasoning being removed. But again, we'd only be adding to that. Look below at the very clear, well defined line there is between #4 and #5. One won its conference and dropped only one game all season. The other lost to an 4-8 team and collected a second loss in the conference championship game. Now, compare that to determining which teams of #7- #11 get the final two spots if we'd had an 8 team playoff. A couple of teams who now have 2 or 3 losses after making their conference championship but losing. Keep in mind, both of the victors in said games are in front of them, so we have data on the field that says in a championship/postseason setting, they are inferior. Then you have 2 teams with only two losses who lost a chance at winning their division(due to a loss, or losses, to people in front of them, more data) and thus weren't afforded the chance to play for a conference title, but also avoided losing a 3rd game as a result. Tell me a realistic way of selecting those spots without employing an extreme measure of bias and subjectivity. Further, tell me why I'm tuning in to see Psu possibly lose to OhSt a second time, or Wisconsin a 3rd time. Why do I need to see Oregon beat Utah again, or UF take another crack at Lsu or uga, ideally with the correct wristbands?



1
LSU
13-0

2
Ohio State
13-0

3
Clemson
13-0

4
Oklahoma
12-1

5
Georgia
11-2

6
Oregon
11-2

7
Baylor
11-2

8
Wisconsin
10-3

9
Florida
10-2

10
Penn State
10-2

11
Utah
11-2

As I've said, you have 4 teams that look like championship caliber teams. Beyond that are exactly what they would be called--wild cards. If people want to see 8, 12, even 16, that's fine. I'm not changing your opinion, nor are you changing mine. But I think it's much harder to make a valid claim that Wisonsin this year deserved to play OhSt three times, or that OhSt should have to beat Wisc 3 times, than it is to say uga, Baylor, Wisc, Oregon, "Sorry but you had your chance and didn't get it done. Enjoy your bowl games. 1980."

 

[G. Gordon Gator]

Just for sh*ts and giggles, here would be the seedings for an 8-team playoff this year under the criteria I proposed. Which again is all P5 champs, the highest-ranked Go5 champ, and the two remaining highest-ranked teams regardless of conference. Teams would then be seeded according to their ranking.

1. LSU (SEC Champ)
2. Ohio State (B10 Champ)
3. Clemson (ACC Champ)
4. Oklahoma (B12 Champ)
5. Georgia (At large)
6. Oregon (P12 Champ)
7. Baylor (At large)
8. Memphis (Go5 / AAC Champ)

Right away I'm realizing the Go5 deal needs to be tweaked. Memphis was the highest-ranked Go5 champ this year, but they were all the way down at #17 and there are too many more-deserving P5 teams above them.

I still like the idea of giving one Go5 representative a shot, but let's do it this way: One spot is reserved for the highest-ranked Go5 champ, but only if that team finishes in the top 10 overall. Or let's say top 12. Otherwise it just goes to the highest-ranked team, period.

So, sorry Memphis. Wisconsin gets your spot. And with that, the CFP this year would simply consist of the top 8 teams in the rankings. These would be the quarterfinal matchups:

LSU v. Wisconsin
Ohio State v. Baylor
Clemson v. Oregon
Oklahoma v. Georgia

 

[rogdochar]

Why not a World Cup of college football?

 

[G. Gordon Gator]

re: the poll results, just did some checking behind the scenes, and other than Donkey and his 7-8 alternate logins, most of the votes against expanding the playoff are coming from illegal aliens in California.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Yeah, not a thing.

Other that the whole history of college football, and the history of sports in general, and for that matter the entire sum total of human history itself.

I tell you what. When the SEC is no longer THE super conference we can have this conversation. Until then winning the SEC puts you in the NC game. Don't need no stinking playoffs. Playoffs benefit the Gators in no way.
You've gone from stating that the playoffs would increase recruiting parity, which was roundly shot down by everyone. And that you were tired of the same teams in the "final four". So now you've moved the goal post to the odd times when a multi loss team makes the field of eight. And then go even further to the outlandish case where one of those teams would win it all.
In the last 15 years the SEC champ has won the NC 8-9 times. Let's call it 60% of the time.
How many times will a 5-8 team win it all? 5%?
So for that 5% chance you want to have two rounds of games with what will most assuredly be shytty teams where we would do nothing but risk injury. I'd rather win the SEC and go straight to the NC.
This isn't about the Gators for you, it's about you wanting parity.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Agreed, their goal is to get into the NFL. But if they don't also care about winning championships, then why wouldn't there be more 5 stars going to teams that aren't quite so loaded with talent? That way they will stand out more and get more attention relative to the other players.
?

They go to the teams with what they perceive to be the best coaches.

Again, teams that have bad coaches cant recruit well. It is poor coaching not that causes poor recruiting.

I know by now you wontreexamine your whole premise but its why you cant understand why no one ageees with you.

 

[G. Gordon Gator]

I tell you what. When the SEC is no longer THE super conference we can have this conversation. Until then winning the SEC puts you in the NC game. Don't need no stinking playoffs. Playoffs benefit the Gators in no way.
You've gone from stating that the playoffs would increase recruiting parity, which was roundly shot down by everyone. And that you were tired of the same teams in the "final four". So now you've moved the goal post to the odd times when a multi loss team makes the field of eight. And then go even further to the outlandish case where one of those teams would win it all.
In the last 15 years the SEC champ has won the NC 8-9 times. Let's call it 60% of the time.
How many times will a 5-8 team win it all? 5%?
So for that 5% chance you want to have two rounds of games with what will most assuredly be shytty teams where we would do nothing but risk injury. I'd rather win the SEC and go straight to the NC.
This isn't about the Gators for you, it's about you wanting parity.

Tell us more about how you're scared of having to face playoff teams, "Gator fan." You're the one who said earlier that you doubt UF's ability to win two playoff games and a championship. Now you're doubling down on that. Afraid to compete!

And you go around questioning other people's Gator fanhood? Ha! Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Winning the SEC championship doesn't necessarily put you in the title game either, genius. If Georgia beat LSU this year, then without a playoff Clemson would be playing Ohio State for the NC.

Now go feed your gerbil.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

re: the poll results, just did some checking behind the scenes, and other than Donkey and his 7-8 alternate logins, most of the votes against expanding the playoff are coming from illegal aliens in California.

what evidence do you have exactly that I am not an illegal alien in California?

 

[gatorev12]

what evidence do you have exactly that I am not an illegal alien in California?

You speak English.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

You speak English.

 

[G. Gordon Gator]

They go to the teams with what they perceive to be the best coaches.

Again, teams that have bad coaches cant recruit well. It is poor coaching not that causes poor recruiting.

Teams that have bad coaches can't recruit well?? Did you meant to write that? So, Chumpy was a good coach? I'll let you go back and edit before I pronounce you to be dumber than @ThreatMatrix, and that's no small achievement.

I know by now you wontreexamine your whole premise but its why you cant understand why no one ageees with you.

No one agrees with me? That's not what the Rasmussen polling organization says. My "8-team playoff" choice is still winning, and without your fraudulent votes it wouldn't even be close.

what evidence do you have exactly that I am not an illegal alien in California?

Okay, you got me on that one.

 

[MJMGator]

Friggin left wing propaganda.

 

[soflagator]

Just for sh*ts and giggles, here would be the seedings for an 8-team playoff this year under the criteria I proposed. Which again is all P5 champs, the highest-ranked Go5 champ, and the two remaining highest-ranked teams regardless of conference. Teams would then be seeded according to their ranking.

1. LSU (SEC Champ)
2. Ohio State (B10 Champ)
3. Clemson (ACC Champ)
4. Oklahoma (B12 Champ)
5. Georgia (At large)
6. Oregon (P12 Champ)
7. Baylor (At large)
8. Memphis (Go5 / AAC Champ)

Right away I'm realizing the Go5 deal needs to be tweaked. Memphis was the highest-ranked Go5 champ this year, but they were all the way down at #17 and there are too many more-deserving P5 teams above them.

I still like the idea of giving one Go5 representative a shot, but let's do it this way: One spot is reserved for the highest-ranked Go5 champ, but only if that team finishes in the top 10 overall. Or let's say top 12. Otherwise it just goes to the highest-ranked team, period.

So, sorry Memphis. Wisconsin gets your spot. And with that, the CFP this year would simply consist of the top 8 teams in the rankings. These would be the quarterfinal matchups:

LSU v. Wisconsin
Ohio State v. Baylor
Clemson v. Oregon
Oklahoma v. Georgia

So you really think Wisconsin should theoretically get three chances to beat OhSt? Three chances? Baylor the same with Ou? If uga had lost to a potential crossover Lsu this year instead of Usce, that would be a 3rd potential matchup of teams a for the third time in one season. How does that in any way seem appealing?

And why should uga get yet another shot at Lsu when UF potentially lost their game by less. Shouldn’t the Gators get a second chance? Why is Psu, who was competitive in their one outing against OhSt, sitting idle as the Badgers get a third chance. So they’re punished for being in a tougher division? How is any of this fair?

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Tell us more about how you're scared of having to face playoff teams, "Gator fan." You're the one who said earlier that you doubt UF's ability to win two playoff games and a championship. Now you're doubling down on that. Afraid to compete!

And you go around questioning other people's Gator fanhood? Ha! Give me a break. :rolleyes:

Winning the SEC championship doesn't necessarily put you in the title game either, genius. If Georgia beat LSU this year, then without a playoff Clemson would be playing Ohio State for the NC.

Now go feed your gerbil.

You have an odd fascination with gerbils. I'm sure a trait that you share with others who long for parity, 64 team playoffs and participation trophies.

 

[G. Gordon Gator]

So you really think Wisconsin should theoretically get three chances to beat OhSt? Three chances? Baylor the same with Ou? If uga had lost to a potential crossover Lsu this year instead of Usce, that would be a 3rd potential matchup of teams a for the third time in one season. How does that in any way seem appealing?

And why should uga get yet another shot at Lsu when UF potentially lost their game by less. Shouldn’t the Gators get a second chance? Why is Psu, who was competitive in their one outing against OhSt, sitting idle as the Badgers get a third chance. So they’re punished for being in a tougher division? How is any of this fair?

Do you know how brackets are seeded? For Wisconsin to get another shot at Ohio State, they'd first have to knock off LSU and then beat the winner of UGA v. Oklahoma. If Wisconsin can manage to do that then yes, they deserve to play for the NC, against Ohio State or whoever the opponent ends up being.

Since all the P5 champs ended the regular season in the top eight, and at #17 the highest-ranked Go5 champ is too far down to be playoff-worthy, the 8-team playoff this year would simply consist of the top eight teams in the rankings. I don't see how it can get any more fair or objective than that. If you have a problem with who's in it, then your problem is with the ranking system, not the concept of the playoff.

Look, I get it. If there's a playoff, then you think the teams in it should be the ones who are absolutely the most deserving. And the best way for the CFP Committee to determine those teams...

would be to ask @soflagator.

 

[GatorJB]

I agree with Sofla on this. Don't really have anything new to add that wasn't already said, but adding more teams would make college football worse. The purpose of the BCS was ensure the two best teams played in the championship. That was achieved most years, but occasionally the number 3 team had a case. So the 4 team playoff came because the BCS was deemed insufficient to guarantee the two best teams.

The two best teams in the country now have a guaranteed chance to play for the championship with a 4 team playoff. Expanding to 8 teams adds nothing to the purpose for why the playoff was implemented. The first or second best team in the country is never rated 5 or higher after the regular season. An 8 team playoff simply isn't necessary, and it waters down the sport as a whole.

 

[soflagator]

Do you know how brackets are seeded? For Wisconsin to get another shot at Ohio State, they'd first have to knock off LSU and then beat the winner of UGA v. Oklahoma. If Wisconsin can manage to do that then yes, they deserve to play for the NC, against Ohio State or whoever the opponent ends up being.

Since all the P5 champs ended the regular season in the top eight, and at #17 the highest-ranked Go5 champ is too far down to be playoff-worthy, the 8-team playoff this year would simply consist of the top eight teams in the rankings. I don't see how it can get any more fair or objective than that. If you have a problem with who's in it, then your problem is with the ranking system, not the concept of the playoff.

Look, I get it. If there's a playoff, then you think the teams in it should be the ones who are absolutely the most deserving. And the best way for the CFP Committee to determine those teams...

would be to ask @soflagator.

So your answer is yes. You’d be perfectly fine with a NC matchup of undefeated Ohio State vs 3-loss, non-conference winning Wisconsin for a third time, when the previous two games had been decided by scores of 38-7 and 34-21.

This is your argument.

 

[G. Gordon Gator]

So your answer is yes. You’d be perfectly fine with a NC matchup of undefeated Ohio State vs 3-loss, non-conference winning Wisconsin for a third time, when the previous two games had been decided by scores of 38-7 and 34-21.

This is your argument.

Again: In order for Wisconsin to face Ohio State, they'd have to beat LSU and the winner of UGA-Oklahoma.

So your argument is that if that happened, Wisconsin would still not deserve to play whoever the other finalist turned out to be?

Yes, it is your argument. It comes back to you believing there are better ways to decide who the best teams are than on the playing field.

How about this, maybe we should just eliminate any playoffs or championship games. Instead, at the end of the regular season we'll just use analytics to determine the champion. Be honest and admit you'd be on board with that.

 

[soflagator]

Again: In order for Wisconsin to face Ohio State, they'd have to beat LSU and the winner of UGA-Oklahoma.

So your argument is that if that happened, Wisconsin would still not deserve to play whoever the other finalist turned out to be?

Yes, it is your argument. It comes back to you believing there are better ways to decide who the best teams are than on the playing field.

How about this, maybe we should just eliminate any playoffs or championship games. Instead, at the end of the regular season we'll just use analytics to determine the champion. Be honest and admit you'd be on board with that.

I want things decided in the field. I just was never that “best 2 out of 3!” kid. You’re claiming I want strictly analytics when there’s proven on-field data that says UW isn’t good enough this year. Twice. This year, you could also see a similar situation with Baylor. But here are tons of possibilities of a team needing to show they can beat the same team 3 times.

As I said 12 pages ago, if you think it’ll stop at 8 you’re crazy. The claim will then be that 9-16 are being marginalized. On and on.

Your last extreme recommendation is funny because you’re making it seem as if we don’t have a working system, when we actually do. No more need to get rid of those things than there is to add more.

 

[RocketCityGator]

Earn it on the field like every other sport, some sort of playoff system, 4, 8, 16, whatever. D2 has a playoff system, basketball has a 64 team playoff, baseball, etc. Wins and losses are measurable, I'll take that thank you.