Auburn collapse imminent

[t-gator]

I know Pasty doesn't like Franklin but he would've been a great hire IMO.

I agree. We might even have kept that class together better as well as half the team that transferred after that year.

 

[PastyStoole]

I don't know all the details on that situation. But I don't think it's been proven that he lied and covered up the investigation. If so, then I change my opinion entirely. He seems to have a tremendous reputation within CFB, and is very much respected by Foley. I can't imagine that would be the case it was widely accepted that he did that while at VU. But again, I'm not well versed on the subject.

In that case, substitute Strong and I think we'd still be in better shape. I'm not down on Mac at all, and would've been fine with him that afternoon also. My issue was, and still is, letting it get to the low that it did. And I think one of those big names would've stopped the erosion we saw in recruiting and we'd be in better shape. That year could end up costing us 4-5.

He admitted to lying, and the fact that he contacted the victim says a lot about the guy's character. In any case, I agree with you he's a great coach otherwise. But his ethical problems would have been exacerbated here, especially with some of the kind of kids we have to recruit. They are much different kind of kid than the ones that end up at Vandy and Pedo State.

 

[soflagator]

He admitted to lying, and the fact that he contacted the victim says a lot about the guy's character. In any case, I agree with you he's a great coach otherwise. But his ethical problems would have been exacerbated here, especially with some of the kind of kids we have to recruit. They are much different kind of kid than the ones that end up at Vandy and Pedo State.

Fair enough. And I can agree that a place like UF, with our draw being Florida and other SEC areas, could make it tricky for a coach with serious ethics issues. I just personally think we look for, and harp on, the flaws of successful coaches more so than with guys who fly under the radar and aren't given the attention. If you polled the most despised coaches in cfb, you'd probably see a top 3 that consisted of Meyer, Saban and Fisher, while more non-threatening coaches like Beamer, Miles and Richt are generally seen as decent people. I don't think that's coincidence. Imo, coaches are largely cut from the same cloth and tend to handle things much more similarly than we like to think.

 

[TLB]

They had been 43rd and 51st in recruiting the two years prior to his hiring. They've ranked 24th and 15th respectively since his arrival. So given the circumstances and state of things within the state of Florida, yes, we needed a guy that could slow down fsu's momentum and re energize UF. There is zero doubt in my mind that he, or Strong, would've done that. Most top players knew theyd be joining a team whose staff was likely gone, which is why they opted elsewhere. I know it's par for the course, and you and I rarely agree on anything. But this is reality.

Psu was crippled with sanctions and general sentiment was not good. Tough to walk in and turn that around immediately. But given what he accomplished at VU, I would be floored if he is unable to get a historical program, within a very weak conference, back on track fairly quickly. The only crippling we faced was self inflicted and could've been resolved at any point. Unfortunately, we chose to delay it.

I disagree. I can't argue the stats, but those 43 and 51 recruiting classes were by a guy under NCAA sanctions with limited scholarships and an open door for anyone wishing to leave the program post-sandusky-sanctions. And the 24 and 15 rankings would not be solely on relationships Franklin built, but with relationships the previous coach built and with the lifting of the sanctions. I give a LOT of credit to O'Brien for having moderate success at PSU before going to coach in the NFL with that depleted roster. I see Franklin being the guy after the guy, so he's getting all the benefits at PSU without so much earning it.

I'll stay away from the character discussion, as it would only be my opinion, and unrelated to success.

I will give Franklin credit for winning at Vandy, but I have a hard time ignoring the off-field issues that were occuring at the same time. For me, that would have scratched him off Foley's list early. Especially considering the hotter and brighter spotlight that would be applied for anyone coaching at UF.

I've never been sold on Franklin, never would wanthim at UF. Wish him luck, but so far unproven as a quality guy thus far, and that's what we need at UF - a quality guy.


EDIT to say where I do agree (helps when I read the whole post, derp) - I think he will return winning ways to PSU, especially in the weak conference as you point out. However, I also think he will only last about 5-7 yrs, at which point the off field stuff becomes noticable and he's encouraged to pursue other opportunities. PSU cannot, and will not (I believe), risk more bad press associated with their football program. Yes, they want the wins, but they are also more about character than most programs. Especially in the wake of the Sandusky-Paterno fiasco.

 

[soflagator]

I disagree. I can't argue the stats, but those 43 and 51 recruiting classes were by a guy under NCAA sanctions with limited scholarships and an open door for anyone wishing to leave the program post-sandusky-sanctions. And the 24 and 15 rankings would not be solely on relationships Franklin built, but with relationships the previous coach built and with the lifting of the sanctions. I give a LOT of credit to O'Brien for having moderate success at PSU before going to coach in the NFL with that depleted roster. I see Franklin being the guy after the guy, so he's getting all the benefits at PSU without so much earning it.

I'll stay away from the character discussion, as it would only be my opinion, and unrelated to success.

I will give Franklin credit for winning at Vandy, but I have a hard time ignoring the off-field issues that were occuring at the same time. For me, that would have scratched him off Foley's list early. Especially considering the hotter and brighter spotlight that would be applied for anyone coaching at UF.

I've never been sold on Franklin, never would wanthim at UF. Wish him luck, but so far unproven as a quality guy thus far, and that's what we need at UF - a quality guy.


EDIT to say where I do agree (helps when I read the whole post, derp) - I think he will return winning ways to PSU, especially in the weak conference as you point out. However, I also think he will only last about 5-7 yrs, at which point the off field stuff becomes noticable and he's encouraged to pursue other opportunities. PSU cannot, and will not (I believe), risk more bad press associated with their football program. Yes, they want the wins, but they are also more about character than most programs. Especially in the wake of the Sandusky-Paterno fiasco.

Time will tell with him. But as I said, Foley seems to think very highly of him and went out of his way to personally congratulate him after his win in 2013. But again, he may be a bad guy and flame out as you predict.

And yes, I recognize that Obrien had to deal with sanctions those first few years. I was responding to the poster who asked me if things had improved since his arrival. Imo, they have. While some of it may have been those old problems fading away, I also think his reputation helped breathe new life in the program. Again, we'll see how long that lasts, but they have seen an uptick.

And I'll agree that we want a quality guy. But as I said in my post to Pasty, it seems like every winning coach is deemed a bad guy, while every loser is said to have great character. And then take a guy like WM. I remember people in 2012 talking about how great a guy he was, and what a contrast to Meyer, etc. Fast forward 2 years, and not only did he destroy our program with his nonsense, but he had the audacity to ridicule the state of the program, bash our dorms, and basically tried to steal every recruit that we were in on.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want a certified scumbag running our program. That said, Spurrier was often a jerk and constantly whined in the media(at least that was largely the perception nationally), Meyer was cold with the boosters and had his behavioral issues, Saban processes kids, etc. Meanwhile Zook and WM were thought to be genuinely good guys. Bash me if you will, but I'll take the jerk all day. And again, I think most of them are basically the same. We just don't criticize the losers who get fired and go back to being coordinators.

 

[Swamp Donkey]

Fair enough. And I can agree that a place like UF, with our draw being Florida and other SEC areas, could make it tricky for a coach with serious ethics issues.

Our least ethical coach won two SECs and two NCs and is still loved by many.

 

[soflagator]

Our least ethical coach won two SECs and two NCs and is still loved by many.

But the point stands. Had he remained at a place like Utah, he might still have been the same guy, but wasn't likely to have to deal with characters like Atkins, Rickerson, Wilson, etc.

 

[alcoholica]

I like what Mac is doing, and I think in the long run we'll be better than with Franklin. Mac is bringing in a Saban style coaching staff and I think the long run will be just fine.

 

[soflagator]

I like what Mac is doing, and I think in the long run we'll be better than with Franklin. Mac is bringing in a Saban style coaching staff and I think the long run will be just fine.

Hate the Saban-style talk, but do agree that we'll be ok in the long run.

 

[MJMGator]

I like what Mac is doing, and I think in the long run we'll be better than with Franklin. Mac is bringing in a Saban style coaching staff and I think the long run will be just fine.

I've been impressed with the way he's going about building the support staff/structure. The guy truly seems to know what he's doing behind the scenes. Hope he's as solid with his coaching ability, as we've yet to see the product on the field.

 

[soflagator]

I've been impressed with the way he's going about building the support staff/structure. The guy truly seems to know what he's doing behind the scenes. Hope he's as solid with his coaching ability, as we've yet to see the product on the field.

I actually think that's the one are that he's the most proven. You can't take a team that had been run into the ground the way CSU had been, and turn them around immediately, without knowing how to motivate and scheme for your opponent. I'd be shocked if there were more than 2 or 3 teams each season that were less talented than the Rams.

I'm a little more concerned with his overall building (rebuilding) of the program, specifically recruiting. I think he's a little unproven there, and it's a difficult game right now with the noles and the SEC being what they are. Hopefully we show enough strides on the field to kickstart that area and get UF back in the right place from a talent standpoint.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

I have no idea what this means?

No reason you should: my thumb hit the "quote" button for the wrong poster. Still want to know if P state actually looked better under Franklin

 

[Ancient Reptile]

Muschamp was a memorable coach. I hope everyone has now learned what a 'midline' is. I also thought irt was pretty bad when someone brought up the fact that the Gators commit a lot of penalties and his response was to say that UF committed a lot of penalties before he came, which gave the impression that this was a problem that was out of his control. One thing I will look for this season is whether the Gators improve in that area. It's one thing to have a lot of penalties, a lot of good teams get flagged a lot for being aggressive, but it's quie another to get a lot of stupid penalties, and UF get a lot of stupid penalties. I think Humphries was called for a false start two or three times in a row in a game in 2013, that's when he was benched and magically developed an "injury" that kept him there the rest of the year. UF also needs to stop talking so much, they talk even when they are getting their butts kicked. One great example of how stupid players are is when latroy Pittman decided to run his mouth in the FSU game last year at a critical time, and wouldn't even shut up when he went to the sideline. McElwain needs to get a handle on that type of behavior, and hopefully, we won't see a UF player spit on someone, like Ronald Powell did in the future.

This is the post I intended to quote. I wondered how Flakey could know that Ro Po would spit on someone in the future.

 

[-THE DUDE-]

Time will tell with him. But as I said, Foley seems to think very highly of him and went out of his way to personally congratulate him after his win in 2013. But again, he may be a bad guy and flame out as you predict.

And yes, I recognize that Obrien had to deal with sanctions those first few years. I was responding to the poster who asked me if things had improved since his arrival. Imo, they have. While some of it may have been those old problems fading away, I also think his reputation helped breathe new life in the program. Again, we'll see how long that lasts, but they have seen an uptick.

And I'll agree that we want a quality guy. But as I said in my post to Pasty, it seems like every winning coach is deemed a bad guy, while every loser is said to have great character. And then take a guy like WM. I remember people in 2012 talking about how great a guy he was, and what a contrast to Meyer, etc. Fast forward 2 years, and not only did he destroy our program with his nonsense, but he had the audacity to ridicule the state of the program, bash our dorms, and basically tried to steal every recruit that we were in on.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want a certified scumbag running our program. That said, Spurrier was often a jerk and constantly whined in the media(at least that was largely the perception nationally), Meyer was cold with the boosters and had his behavioral issues, Saban processes kids, etc. Meanwhile Zook and WM were thought to be genuinely good guys. Bash me if you will, but I'll take the jerk all day. And again, I think most of them are basically the same. We just don't criticize the losers who get fired and go back to being coordinators.

Losers can't afford to be asholes

 

[-THE DUDE-]

I actually think that's the one are that he's the most proven. You can't take a team that had been run into the ground the way CSU had been, and turn them around immediately, without knowing how to motivate and scheme for your opponent. I'd be shocked if there were more than 2 or 3 teams each season that were less talented than the Rams.

I'm a little more concerned with his overall building (rebuilding) of the program, specifically recruiting. I think he's a little unproven there, and it's a difficult game right now with the noles and the SEC being what they are. Hopefully we show enough strides on the field to kickstart that area and get UF back in the right place from a talent standpoint.

I think the tell tale sign of a good coach is is the team is constantly improving over the first few years and CSU improved every year he was there. WM improved one year based on a lot of luck and then went downhill fast. 2012 was a lot of good luck and 2013 was a lot of back luck and the mean is 2010 and 2014.

Unfortunately for Mac is that WM drug this program down so far that he will have to prove something on the field here before he'll truly be able to recruit enough to really bring us back.

 

[Jand3k]

Punctuation is so very important. Remember that commas, like nuns, have a habit of traveling in pairs.

To wit:

A panda walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots into the air.

"Why did you do that?" asks a confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit.

The panda produces a badly punctuated Wildlife Encyclopedia and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says, at the waiter. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant page and, sure enough, finds an explanation.

It read, “Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves.”

 

[skyflake]

This is the post I intended to quote. I wondered how Flakey could know that Ro Po would spit on someone in the future.

Place a comma in the appropriate place and you'll understand. Sometimes words are misspelled and the like. This is not a paper I'm submitting for peer review.n