Gator Basketball Gators manage 50 points, lose to TCU

Ocalaman

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No movement on offense, forced shots from the outside and how many missed layups? Terrible, terrible showing for a team that needed this win badly. Now they arre facing 4 probably SEC losses in a row. I believe they will finish with a losing overall record. This shows what happens when you rely on 3's to win games. When you shoot 27% you look bad and lose, even when the defense is pretty solid.
 

InstiGATOR1

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I'm expecting stokes to transfer. He has plenty of size and talent to warrant minutes so has to be issue between him and coaching, unless he's nursing a new injury I'm not aware of.

I am sure that Okauru will transfer. I do not really expect to see Gak back either. I also wonder what future Bassett or Stokes sees with a coach who only plays one big and his bringing in a prize big recruit. I also wonder if Ballard is coming back for a 3rd year of backup duty. UF could struggle to have 10 scholarship players next year.
 

InstiGATOR1

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My game thoughts:

1. UF got killed on the boards. This is not surprising when you play 4 guards and a post players against a team with real inside players.

2. UF sometimes maybe usually makes up for being killed on the board by turnover margin, but today UF won the TO battle by 7, but lost the rebound battle by 12. Since the offensive rebound battle was about even, TCU +1, the extra shots TCU got due to better defensive rebouding were the margin of victory in a close game.

3. It would have been nice down the stretch had White not given TCU two extra points with a technical foul? I do not watch with the sound on so I have no idea what happened there. Had UF been closer by two point throughout the last 5 minutes of the game, there would have been more game pressure on TCU.

4. Against a good team that has identified who is hot that day White's scramble switching every screen defense is terrible. Time and again TCU was able to get the ball to Noi wide open late in the clock. Also as we saw with the highlight of the game, even if you scramble and the guy you are rushing at misses his shot you are highly vulnerable to the shooter following his missed shot.

5. Btw, Hudson was no worse than any of UF's guards except Johnson. Hudson was 2 of 10, 1 of 5, while Locke was 2-9, 1-5, and Nembhart was 2-9, 2-4 and Allen was 4-13, 2-9. Someone has to put the ball in the basket for UF to win. Hudson like Allen can at least get his shot. Nembhard has not yet figure out what he can't do at this level and Locke is very much a catch and shoot guy. This game really came down to Noi made shots and no one for UF did.
 

Ocalaman

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My game thoughts:

1. UF got killed on the boards. This is not surprising when you play 4 guards and a post players against a team with real inside players.

2. UF sometimes maybe usually makes up for being killed on the board by turnover margin, but today UF won the TO battle by 7, but lost the rebound battle by 12. Since the offensive rebound battle was about even, TCU +1, the extra shots TCU got due to better defensive rebouding were the margin of victory in a close game.

3. It would have been nice down the stretch had White not given TCU two extra points with a technical foul? I do not watch with the sound on so I have no idea what happened there. Had UF been closer by two point throughout the last 5 minutes of the game, there would have been more game pressure on TCU.

4. Against a good team that has identified who is hot that day White's scramble switching every screen defense is terrible. Time and again TCU was able to get the ball to Noi wide open late in the clock. Also as we saw with the highlight of the game, even if you scramble and the guy you are rushing at misses his shot you are highly vulnerable to the shooter following his missed shot.

5. Btw, Hudson was no worse than any of UF's guards except Johnson. Hudson was 2 of 10, 1 of 5, while Locke was 2-9, 1-5, and Nembhart was 2-9, 2-4 and Allen was 4-13, 2-9. Someone has to put the ball in the basket for UF to win. Hudson like Allen can at least get his shot. Nembhard has not yet figure out what he can't do at this level and Locke is very much a catch and shoot guy. This game really came down to Noi made shots and no one for UF did.
Well, Keyontae Johnson isn't a guard. He's playing the 4 spot that Keith Stone was playing. Yes, today our shooters well all equally pathetic. Hudson is a liability on defense, though. Hayes played his heart out and had one of his better games, but we missed so many layups and put backs around the rim it was horrible to watch. If the defense hadn't been solid we would have been blown off the floor.
 

Frozen Gator

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Right Frozen: never has one player exerted so much effort void of any "inside-game" coached development and devoid of any schemed & team-practiced on-court inclusion in plays. Catch, fiercely-grip, kiss off backboard or gently drop into rim = each of those facets should be drilled in, into Hayes & Bassett & Johnson.
Remember how he played and the promise when we had a real Center?
 

InstiGATOR1

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Well, Keyontae Johnson isn't a guard. He's playing the 4 spot that Keith Stone was playing. Yes, today our shooters well all equally pathetic. Hudson is a liability on defense, though. Hayes played his heart out and had one of his better games, but we missed so many layups and put backs around the rim it was horrible to watch. If the defense hadn't been solid we would have been blown off the floor.

You can call Johnson whatever you want. I am interested in what he IS. He is 6'5" tall and a guard or at most a 3. He is certain NOT a 4, just a the 6'8" Keith Stone was a 3.

Hudson is not any more a liability on defense than Nembhard or Locke. Nembhard for example gets beaten back door badly at least once a game. Hudson just does not have more years to get better on D, but he has improved while at UF.

If the defense had not been quite so solid, if for example Locke was not burning up his legs running back in forth across the court as the as the point of the press, perhaps the offense would have been better down the stretch.

There are always multiple angle to look at something. This defensive orientation and not recruiting enough bigs (OL) is why Jay26 posts Muschamp pictures.

Now I think this team might still be able to make a run and eek out a bid. I think White might be able to grow as a coach as Donovan did. But there is no getting around White has some unique views and when his team does not play well, people are going to doubt him.
 

t-gator

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This was a tough loss for us real fans
 

MidwestChomp

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1st fix: Play the starters 30+ min

2nd fix: no dribble drive

3rd fix: 4/5 out screening offense this year

4th fix: hire an assistant who knows offense

5th fix: Allen and Locke must shoot 10 times a game min

6th fix: repeat steps 1-5
I hate the damn dribble drive. Hate it! The worse thing is lot of high school coaches now use that fking offense. Thanks Calipari you asshat.
 

Durty South Swamp

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Dribble drive is the worst offense in bball. It's boring, selfish, individualistic, and totally devoid of creativity. And its way worse when a coach can't get his kids to even perform it with any competence or consistency.
 

Ocalaman

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You can call Johnson whatever you want. I am interested in what he IS. He is 6'5" tall and a guard or at most a 3. He is certain NOT a 4, just a the 6'8" Keith Stone was a 3.

Hudson is not any more a liability on defense than Nembhard or Locke. Nembhard for example gets beaten back door badly at least once a game. Hudson just does not have more years to get better on D, but he has improved while at UF.

If the defense had not been quite so solid, if for example Locke was not burning up his legs running back in forth across the court as the as the point of the press, perhaps the offense would have been better down the stretch.

There are always multiple angle to look at something. This defensive orientation and not recruiting enough bigs (OL) is why Jay26 posts Muschamp pictures.

Now I think this team might still be able to make a run and eek out a bid. I think White might be able to grow as a coach as Donovan did. But there is no getting around White has some unique views and when his team does not play well, people are going to doubt him.
K. Johnson is a 6'5" 225 lb. forward. That's how he's listed on the roster and that's the position he's played when put in the game. Except for Nembhard and Allen most of our guys aren't playing their true positions. And it's not from lack of recruiting. It's from bigs either being hurt, not being in game shape or transferring out. Hayes is pretty much playing the 5 position, center, but he's really a power forward (4). Stone was supposed to be a power forward, but played more like a 3. When he went down K. Johnson took his spot in the starting lineup as a power forward. he has more of an inside game than Stone and has been pretty solid, although short for the 4 position. Hudson is a 3 and is DEFINITELY more of a liability on defense than anyone on the floor. Nembhard and Locke get beat a couple times a game, but Hudson gets beat regularly and that's why he's on the bench most of the time. And he's a senior and the other 2 are freshmen playing very well overall. White yanks kids who don't play defense. Offense was supposed to be the team's strength and defense the question mark when the season started. But defense has been very good while the offense has totally sucked. Much of that is lack of an inside game due to the reasons I previously stated. Part of it is lack of motion and too much dribbling. Part of it is bad shot selection and part of it is just piss-poor shooting. However you look at it, this year's Gator basketball team is underachieving big time and there is plenty of blame to spread around.
 

ChiefGator

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1 of 15 in the first half basically doomed us.
 

RaptureVeteran

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We may back into the NIT. That statement alone should have White heading north on 75.
I dont think White is going anywhere, specifically because of this incoming recruiting class. Next years roster will have 3 five stars on the roster plus all the returning underclassmen since we have zero juniors or under who will get drafted. The worst thing about next year will be if White only maxes us out at a Sweet 16 elimination and Stricklin brings him back when we'll have the talent that should warrant a Elite 8 appearance at the bare minimum
 

MertzJay26

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We’ve yet to beat a good team. Embarrassing.
 

MidwestChomp

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I dont think White is going anywhere, specifically because of this incoming recruiting class. Next years roster will have 3 five stars on the roster plus all the returning underclassmen since we have zero juniors or under who will get drafted. The worst thing about next year will be if White only maxes us out at a Sweet 16 elimination and Stricklin brings him back when we'll have the talent that should warrant a Elite 8 appearance at the bare minimum
Welcome to the board and nice avatar.
 

InstiGATOR1

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K. Johnson is a 6'5" 225 lb. forward. That's how he's listed on the roster and that's the position he's played when put in the game. Except for Nembhard and Allen most of our guys aren't playing their true positions. And it's not from lack of recruiting. It's from bigs either being hurt, not being in game shape or transferring out. Hayes is pretty much playing the 5 position, center, but he's really a power forward (4). Stone was supposed to be a power forward, but played more like a 3. When he went down K. Johnson took his spot in the starting lineup as a power forward. he has more of an inside game than Stone and has been pretty solid, although short for the 4 position. Hudson is a 3 and is DEFINITELY more of a liability on defense than anyone on the floor. Nembhard and Locke get beat a couple times a game, but Hudson gets beat regularly and that's why he's on the bench most of the time. And he's a senior and the other 2 are freshmen playing very well overall. White yanks kids who don't play defense. Offense was supposed to be the team's strength and defense the question mark when the season started. But defense has been very good while the offense has totally sucked. Much of that is lack of an inside game due to the reasons I previously stated. Part of it is lack of motion and too much dribbling. Part of it is bad shot selection and part of it is just piss-poor shooting. However you look at it, this year's Gator basketball team is underachieving big time and there is plenty of blame to spread around.

Well:

1. Johnson is still listed at 6'5" tall. So again I do not care what anyone calls him on a roster particularly when the roster terminology this year was predicated showing Lewis he has a ready made position and getting him to sign.

2. So you know for a fact that Gak is too hurt play any, that Stokes is too hurt to play any. I personally think White sees his team next year at Mann, Locke, Lewis, Johnson and Payne and whichever two or three other guys will hang around to back them up. Now perhaps Nembhard will come back next year creating some depth at guard and a PG battle. I think White is not giving an opportunity for any big to lock down a job he has promised to Payne. Thus Bassett gets little time either at the 4 or instead of the SR Hayes (who did play decently today.) Thus Johnson transfered as others will do after the season.

3. Stone was suppose to be a 4 according to who? When Donovan recruited him the word was he was a 3. He was to be a mismatch 3 in the line of Miller, Brewer, Parsons etc. Instead he as been an over matched 4 under White.

4. Hudson has almost no skills of a 3, he is a SG. His one SF skill is rebounding and he has gotten a little better this year, but his totals don't show it due to lack of minutes. BTW, if you look at defensive rating Hudson is clearly better than Locke who is clearly better than Nembhard. Look here:

2018-19 Florida Gators Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

under the per 100 possessions data. Hudson is better than Locke in some of the other advanced defensive stats too. So you can type definitely in all caps if you want, but the data do not back you up. Hudson is on the bench because his offense has gone away completely. Whether Hudson's offense being so terrible is due to his coach screwing up his confidence, testing the NBA waters last year screwing up his confidence or him regressing to the mean or even a combination is something that is debatable.

5. White yanks people particularly the non-favored who make a mistake. You can get yanked for what White thinks is a bad shot, bad hussle, or bad defense.

6. I am not sure why you thought this team would be good on offense. White's teams aren't. I did not anticipate that Hudson would be so bad on offense. On the other hand, I did not anticipate that all 3 frosh would contribute this early. So that is a wash when Stone's injury is included in my view. The problems with White's team being stagnent have been around from the start.
 

InstiGATOR1

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I dont think White is going anywhere, specifically because of this incoming recruiting class. Next years roster will have 3 five stars on the roster plus all the returning underclassmen since we have zero juniors or under who will get drafted. The worst thing about next year will be if White only maxes us out at a Sweet 16 elimination and Stricklin brings him back when we'll have the talent that should warrant a Elite 8 appearance at the bare minimum

Ah Mr. Astrologist, you know for a fact Nembhard will be back? As for all the returning underclass players have you ever heard of transferring. At times Donovan's program was criticized for all the transfers out. We have seen one and may see serveral others this off season.
 

RaptureVeteran

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Ah Mr. Astrologist, you know for a fact Nembhard will be back? As for all the returning underclass players have you ever heard of transferring. At times Donovan's program was criticized for all the transfers out. We have seen one and may see serveral others this off season.
Guys could transfer, but thats a bigger assumption that Nembhard leaving. Nembhard was deemed a one and done when he got to Florida, he was listed on many, hell, most mock draft sites in this years upcoming draft, now? Good luck, I think I've seen him on a grand total of one site and hes listed at the end of the 2nd round. He has a broken jump shot, want to know who hes compared to? A less athletic Lonzo Ball, because he has that same ugly hitch in his release, the problem is Lonzo is so unimpressive as an offensive player in the league I dont think being compared to him is a good thing, as proven by the fact, again, most mock draft sites dont list Nembhard anywhere. I see Nembhard the same way Kasey Hill played out. When Kasey Hill committed to Florida he was deemed a one, or two and done kid, he was here 4 years because he was offensively inept. Nembhard is averaging 7 points a game, who in the hell do you think is lining up to draft a kid who is averaging 7 points and has an atrocious jump shot that literally requires a complete re-tooling to turn Nembhard into an efficient shooter? I bet if I bet $20 a year with you for every season Nembhard is at Florida, I'd come out alright, it wouldnt shock me if he ends up being here for 4 years. His jump shot is garbage and Lonzos existence has shown its not worth dealing with that ugly ass hitch when you can just flat out draft a guard with an actual shot.

But back to the transfers, we could see someone, wouldn't surprise me if Stokes transferred out, but with us losing Allen, Hayes and Hudson to graduation I cant think of anyone other than Stokes transferring out. Hopefully no one. But I'd bet money on Nembhard returning to Florida, he has a non-existent stock man. Good luck finding much evidence to the contrary. He's been a major letdown this season.
 

InstiGATOR1

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Guys could transfer, but thats a bigger assumption that Nembhard leaving. Nembhard was deemed a one and done when he got to Florida, he was listed on many, hell, most mock draft sites in this years upcoming draft, now? Good luck, I think I've seen him on a grand total of one site and hes listed at the end of the 2nd round. He has a broken jump shot, want to know who hes compared to? A less athletic Lonzo Ball, because he has that same ugly hitch in his release, the problem is Lonzo is so unimpressive as an offensive player in the league I dont think being compared to him is a good thing, as proven by the fact, again, most mock draft sites dont list Nembhard anywhere. I see Nembhard the same way Kasey Hill played out. When Kasey Hill committed to Florida he was deemed a one, or two and done kid, he was here 4 years because he was offensively inept. Nembhard is averaging 7 points a game, who in the hell do you think is lining up to draft a kid who is averaging 7 points and has an atrocious jump shot?

But back to the transfers, we could see someone, wouldn't surprise me if Stokes transferred out, but with us losing Allen, Hayes and Hudson to graduation I cant think of anyone other than Stokes transferring out. Hopefully no one. But I'd bet money on Nembhard returning to Florida, he has a non-existent stock man. Good luck finding much evidence to the contrary. He's been a major letdown this season.

1. I agree 100% on everything you said about Nembhard. It is just with Mann coming in, I wonder if he still might try to go as I suspect was his plan to start?

2. I see Okauru most likely gone. I see Stokes as a possible transfer. I thought Ballard was the most likely guy to leave going into this season. Then he played pretty well, but I almost think that means he is more likely to go where he can play rather than play behind younger guys. As for Bassett, he was not as highly recruited as Ballard but his play may have created a demand for him elsewhere. There is Gak who I will be surprised if he ever plays for UF again. It is puzzling to never hear anything about guys like Stokes and Gak and in Gak's case never see them get any minutes.
 

RaptureVeteran

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1. I agree 100% on everything you said about Nembhard. It is just with Mann coming in, I wonder if he still might try to go as I suspect was his plan to start?

2. I see Okauru most likely gone. I see Stokes as a possible transfer. I thought Ballard was the most likely guy to leave going into this season. Then he played pretty well, but I almost think that means he is more likely to go where he can play rather than play behind younger guys. As for Bassett, he was not as highly recruited as Ballard but his play may have created a demand for him elsewhere. There is Gak who I will be surprised if he ever plays for UF again. It is puzzling to never hear anything about guys like Stokes and Gak and in Gak's case never see them get any minutes.
Yea man I have no idea who will transfer but I agree it will happen. Just seems like a lost cause to get into it. The one thing I've learned in basketball is point guards can usually play 2 without issue, so my guess is Mann plays more 2 with Nembhard on the floor because Nembhards vision is solid, hes already distributing the ball at about the same pace Chiozza did last year. So as long as Mann doesnt actually become offensively ****ed like Nembhard then he could just play the 2. But we'll see. Too early to tell. I'm just surprised Nembhard is so damn inept, I thought he would be an upgrade over Chiozza because of his size, I did not see a paltry 7 a game from him
 

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