Serena meltdown

[Bama&GatorFan]

Lol. You’re a clown. I never argued anything about race in this situation. Osaka is half black, so that wouldn’t even make sense. I was randomly asked if I was black first, as if that was somehow relevant to the argument I was making. I guess only black people support Serena? Not even sure what he was getting at. YOU seem to not be able to drop race, so let’s get into why I said what I said:

For whatever reason, old white dudes always have an issue when non white athletes are too expressive or emotional. In MLB, when Latin players flip their bats after a homerun, they aren’t “playing the game the right way”. In the NFL, players that celebrate excessively after a touchdown are “ghetto” or “thugs”. You can argue that she was in the wrong for her actions, but the insults (not to mention the racist caricature of both players) were uncalled for and have a nefarious undertone.

Well, you are obviously blinded by SOMETHING. And you obviously know very little about tennis. I don't even think you have watched the match (I have)! I play tennis twice a week. Why don't you try to argue about something about which you have some knowledge? Maybe then you won't make such a fool of yourself!

 

[maheo30]

There isn't any evidence that Ramos or any other judge is sexist. Fact, men are 3 times more likely to be issued a code violation than women. At the US Open, 86 men were issued code violations. The women? 22. The stat is similar at Wimbledon and everywhere else.

 

[Detroitgator]

Like the peanut gallery that likes all your 100% accurate, factual, non-opinion based posts.

FIFY

 

[heversle]

Well, you are obviously blinded by SOMETHING. And you obviously know very little about tennis. I don't even think you have watched the match (I have)! I play tennis twice a week. Why don't you try to argue about something about which you have some knowledge? Maybe then you won't make such a fool of yourself!

Nobody cares how often you play tennis in your senior league. I watched the whole match. Ramos is a pvssy. You both have that in common.

 

[soflagator]

As usual, I like your post SoFla but let's make sure we are all on the same page. The coaching was a code violation but was not penalized because it was the first code violation. The racket smashing was penalized because it was the second code violation.

Yes, we are on the same page.

 

[Detroitgator]

As usual, I like your post SoFla but let's make sure we are all on the same page. The coaching was a code violation but was not penalized because it was the first code violation. The racket smashing was penalized because it was the second code violation.

Only a minor matter of distinction here, but the "warning" for the coaching violation is a penalty, but with no consequence given no further violations. It's the "warning/probation" in the written rules that Hev and a lot of other people are screaming about because they think that after the initial warning, and after the second code violation resulting in a point penalty, one should be given yet another warning before another penalty for yet a third actual violation of written rules... but I get their "feelings."

And as you and sofla (I think) have echoed, it is Osaka that Serena not only put in a crappy position with her tirade, but absolutely robbed her of the moment she had worked so hard for and had so soundly earned. Serena was selfish, period.

I just can't believe people are actually talking "sexism/racism" garbage when we are talking about an event that involved three people, all minorities, 1 hispanic, 1 black, one bi-racial, 2 women... it's idiocy. 100% on selfish Serena.

 

[heversle]

Only a minor matter of distinction here, but the "warning" for the coaching violation is a penalty, but with no consequence given no further violations. It's the "warning/probation" in the written rules that Hev and a lot of other people are screaming about because they think that after the initial warning, and after the second code violation resulting in a point penalty, one should be given yet another warning before another penalty for yet a third actual violation of written rules... but I get their "feelings."

And as you and sofla (I think) have echoed, it is Osaka that Serena not only put in a crappy position with her tirade, but absolutely robbed her of the moment she had worked so hard for and had so soundly earned. Serena was selfish, period.

I just can't believe people are actually talking "sexism/racism" garbage when we are talking about an event that involved three people, all minorities, 1 hispanic, 1 black, one bi-racial, 2 women... it's idiocy. 100% on selfish Serena.

Detroit, that’s fair enough. Again, I actually agree that Serena went a little too far. Everyone seems to think that I am blindly siding with her. She is not without fault. I’ve said that already.

The problem I have is more with the initial coaching “warning”. What exactly constitutes coaching? The dude put two thumbs in the air and motioned towards her. There was no indication that she even acknowledged him. It was foolish to even address it unless it was clear that they were repeatedly engaged in signaling back in forth, especially considering Osaka was beating her. It was simply unnecessary.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

Patrick admitted plainly that he was coaching (or attempting to coach). The signal to coach was clear to people who play tennis. The rules are clear. The players are responsible for the coaches they employ. So there is no real argument that the code violation and concommitant warning was fairly assessed. What is unfortunate is that Serena may not have accepted the coaching or (possibly) even seen it. She then felt that her integrity had been impugned and, absurdly, demanded an apology. Although Ramos had no affirmative responsibility to help Serena understand this, and she has certainly been playing long enough for this to be clear, IMO he might have told Serena that her coach's behavior was her responsibility but did not necessarily reflect on her integrity.
I do not believe that this would have helped, but there is a small chance this could have been avoided.

 

[Detroitgator]

Detroit, that’s fair enough. Again, I actually agree that Serena went a little too far. Everyone seems to think that I am blindly siding with her. She is not without fault. I’ve said that already.

The problem I have is more with the initial coaching “warning”. What exactly constitutes coaching? The dude put two thumbs in the air and motioned towards her. There was no indication that she even acknowledged him. It was foolish to even address it unless it was clear that they were repeatedly engaged in signaling back in forth, especially considering Osaka was beating her. It was simply unnecessary.

Thanks for the response... trust me, he was coaching and it is almost ALWAYS the losing coach that does it. It's not just the thumbs up (that's narrative). There is other video of him making forward and back motions and he clearly makes a little nod which means that someone acknowledged him. "Everybody does it" is not an excuse because no, not everyone does it, and like i said, I'm willing to bet that Ramos watched it going on for a set and a half and then had enough, which is correct.

Serena has a real problem: her coach says, "Yes, I did, everybody does" and has not backed off of that. She said, "No, never." Now she is saying, "We didn't have hand signals, I do not know why he would say that?!?!?!"

The rule states very clearly that a coach can make NO verbal or non-verbal cues... it's really, really clear and tennis does try to adhere. Like was said, men got 86 code violations at the US Open, women 22, and there were at least 2 of them that were coaching violations, so for her to say it never happens just defies fact... very recent fact, like same tournament fact.

 

[Detroitgator]

Patrick admitted plainly that he was coaching (or attempting to coach). The signal to coach was clear to people who play tennis. The rules are clear. The players are responsible for the coaches they employ. So there is no real argument that the code violation and concommitant warning was fairly assessed. What is unfortunate is that Serena may not have accepted the coaching or (possibly) even seen it. She then felt that her integrity had been impugned and, absurdly, demanded an apology. Although Ramos had no affirmative responsibility to help Serena understand this, and she has certainly been playing long enough for this to be clear, IMO he might have told Serena that her coach's behavior was her responsibility but did not necessarily reflect on her integrity.
I do not believe that this would have helped, but there is a small chance this could have been avoided.

There's clear video of him making a little head nod after his hand motions (not the thumbs up) that clearly indicate someone was acknowledging his hand movement... whether it was her or not that acknowledged him in that video is immaterial as he admits he was doing it.

 

[soflagator]

Patrick admitted plainly that he was coaching (or attempting to coach). The signal to coach was clear to people who play tennis. The rules are clear. The players are responsible for the coaches they employ. So there is no real argument that the code violation and concommitant warning was fairly assessed. What is unfortunate is that Serena may not have accepted the coaching or (possibly) even seen it. She then felt that her integrity had been impugned and, absurdly, demanded an apology. Although Ramos had no affirmative responsibility to help Serena understand this, and she has certainly been playing long enough for this to be clear, IMO he might have told Serena that her coach's behavior was her responsibility but did not necessarily reflect on her integrity.
I do not believe that this would have helped, but there is a small chance this could have been avoided.

There was an SI article that insinuated that as well. The problem is, it would’ve been like someone on Jerry Springer trying to articulate a point while being berated by a screaming guest. As you point out, it would’ve been futile, but would’ve given him a little more cover. I’m just not convinced people want truth and right anymore. Their minds are made up already. If she’d killed 6 puppies on the way to the lockeroom, it would’ve been acceptable, and quite possibly, somehow a positive.

 

[Bama&GatorFan]

Detroit, that’s fair enough. Again, I actually agree that Serena went a little too far. Everyone seems to think that I am blindly siding with her. She is not without fault. I’ve said that already.

The problem I have is more with the initial coaching “warning”. What exactly constitutes coaching? The dude put two thumbs in the air and motioned towards her. There was no indication that she even acknowledged him. It was foolish to even address it unless it was clear that they were repeatedly engaged in signaling back in forth, especially considering Osaka was beating her. It was simply unnecessary.

Again, if you weren't so ignorant, you would know all of this. He was coaching and he admitted it. That is clearly against the rules and the warning was appropriate. She was losing. Badly. There is no question about any of that.
You watched that and you think she went "a little too far"? Really, you should just stop. You wonder why we think you are "blindly" supporting her? Well if you can't see it, then you must be blind!

 

[soflagator]

Thanks for the response... trust me, he was coaching and it is almost ALWAYS the losing coach that does it. It's not just the thumbs up (that's narrative). There is other video of him making forward and back motions and he clearly makes a little nod which means that someone acknowledged him. "Everybody does it" is not an excuse because no, not everyone does it, and like i said, I'm willing to bet that Ramos watched it going on for a set and a half and then had enough, which is correct.

Serena has a real problem: her coach says, "Yes, I did, everybody does" and has not backed off of that. She said, "No, never." Now she is saying, "We didn't have hand signals, I do not know why he would say that?!?!?!"

The rule states very clearly that a coach can make NO verbal or non-verbal cues... it's really, really clear and tennis does try to adhere. Like was said, men got 86 code violations at the US Open, women 22, and there were at least 2 of them that were coaching violations, so for her to say it never happens just defies fact... very recent fact, like same tournament fact.

Remember the crip walk issue? In immediate post match interviews, she openly stated that the dance had a name, but wasn’t sure if it was appropriate to say. Months later, she gets hit with a question by someone taking her to task on it, and she suddenly claims she doesn’t even know what the dance’s name is.

Then when she was getting heat about the fact that her older sister had been killed by a gang related drive by years earlier, the next story she concocted was that doing the dance at the win was her way of mocking the crips.

Three completely different stories(so at least 2 lies) on one issue. Once again, giant phony.

 

[BNAG8R]

Interesting thread and as a mod ( ) I see a couple of instances where, if I were around at the time, I might have asked for a little restraint (personal attacks). That said, it didn’t escalate out of hand, and I think it’s a good example of how a little “self policing” works better usually than some dictatorial mod. Well done, all.

Now don’t bother me anymore, asswipes.

 

[alcoholica]

Patrick admitted plainly that he was coaching (or attempting to coach). The signal to coach was clear to people who play tennis. The rules are clear. The players are responsible for the coaches they employ. So there is no real argument that the code violation and concommitant warning was fairly assessed. What is unfortunate is that Serena may not have accepted the coaching or (possibly) even seen it. She then felt that her integrity had been impugned and, absurdly, demanded an apology. Although Ramos had no affirmative responsibility to help Serena understand this, and she has certainly been playing long enough for this to be clear, IMO he might have told Serena that her coach's behavior was her responsibility but did not necessarily reflect on her integrity.
I do not believe that this would have helped, but there is a small chance this could have been avoided.

What exactly did her coach say? He said everyone coaches in every match. Coaching is against the rules (i.e. cheating). What did Serena say? I would never cheat.

So what's the issue? Her coach admitted not only to coaching her in that match but the whole tournament. And do you think he does this without her ever accepting coaching? So do you find her credible when she said she wasn't being coached? How much coaching do you think she accepted in that match?

 

[MJMGator]

Interesting thread and as a mod ( ) I see a couple of instances where, if I were around at the time, I might have asked for a little restraint (personal attacks). That said, it didn’t escalate out of hand, and I think it’s a good example of how a little “self policing” works better usually than some dictatorial mod. Well done, all.

Now don’t bother me anymore, asswipes.

We don’t need no stinkin mods.

 

[Ancient Reptile]

What exactly did her coach say? He said everyone coaches in every match. Coaching is against the rules (i.e. cheating). What did Serena say? I would never cheat.

So what's the issue? Her coach admitted not only to coaching her in that match but the whole tournament. And do you think he does this without her ever accepting coaching? So do you find her credible when she said she wasn't being coached? How much coaching do you think she accepted in that match?

You make good points, but it is interesting to note that in events where on court coaching is permitted, Serena never asks for nor permits on court coaching. While your inferences may well be correct, I prefer to stick to what I know and am confident of. I have not seen the nod of acceptance some of you have seen and the crips dance is utterly new and fascinating knowledge.

 

[alcoholica]

We don’t need no stinkin mods.

He was too busy smoking his peace pipe anyhow

 

[alcoholica]

You make good points, but it is interesting to note that in events where on court coaching is permitted, Serena never asks for nor permits on court coaching. While your inferences may well be correct, I prefer to stick to what I know and am confident of. I have not seen the nod of acceptance some of you have seen and the crips dance is utterly new and fascinating knowledge.

it's not an inference, the coach said that he coaches every match and he claims everyone does. he's not going to waste his time coaching if she's not accepting it.

 

[Bama&GatorFan]

it's not an inference, the coach said that he coaches every match and he claims everyone does. he's not going to waste his time coaching if she's not accepting it.

All of the evidence says he was coaching and she was cheating. After she was caught cheating, she said she didn't cheat. Yeah right. Ask any drug dealer who was just caught red - handed if they were selling drugs. They will lie just like Serena did. Great example for her little girl.
Pathetic!