Fire Mike White? Gators crushed like bugs at home to Alabama

Double Gator Dad · Feb 5, 2018

SamIamGator92 said:
I absolutely hate seeing those empty fcvking seats on TV every freaking time. Our stadium, even when full, seems half empty and quiet as the library. They need to fill those seats with Rowdies if the alumni ain't there.

I assume that most people on this board are tired of my whining about this but I was a 36 year season ticket holder on the 3rd row in plain sight of the TV audience. When the renovation occurred, UF figured out how to screw the longtime boosters out of their seats in favor of the Bull Gators.
Not only did they more than double the cost, they also kicked all of the tenured boosters to the curb via a priority numbering system. By the time my number was up, the club section was completely full. Well somehow it was full even though my number suggested that it was impossible for all of the seats to be gone (can you say two sets of rules?)

The Bull Gators/corporations either don't attend many of the games or they spend the entire time up in the club versus watching the game which leaves all of us looking at an empty arena.
Now the tax law changes will reduce the incentive for these folks to buy seats which should lead to an interesting situation in the future.

No tax credit + losing record at home = UAA looking like greedy fools.

Although I really miss attending all of the games, I have been thankful that I did not throw away $5,000 for two seats watching a team sleep walk with an uninspired coach tucking them in each game.

cover2 · Feb 5, 2018

I think what is so frustrating to me for us offensively is how often we either dribble and shoot a long attempt, often not clean, just seconds into the shot clock or hold and dribble with no passes or little movement and then fire up whatever shot we can get as the shot clock runs out. Just looks like there's no rhyme or reason much of the time for what we are trying to accomplish. Occasionally, we get a drive and dish that leads to an open shot or a pick and roll, but nothing consistently. We started off the other evening with Stone getting some passes on the way to the hoop that were successful and then that stopped, never to be revisited. I see Hayes posting up from time to time, but rarely do we pass it in to him. I know he's not very good offensively, but if we never get him the ball, nobody has to drop to help out with him and the perimeter stays covered.

I also think our passing leaves a lot to be desired. For instance, when we do have a pick and roll or a cutter open, I hardly ever see us make a bounce pass. Sounds overly simplistic, I know, but it looks like we have a lot of the other passes batted away or stolen in these situations. We just look so poor from a fundamental standpoint and our only strength offensively, as has been pointed out, is when we are burying the 3's, which has gotten tougher lately because that's about the only way we can be effective offensively and everybody we play knows that and turns up the heat on the perimeter.

I don't think we are a very tough team based on how we react when the perimeter shots aren't falling/are heavily contested. Trying to run half-court sets just doesn't look very fun to our guys and the effort and patience doesn't seem to be in great supply. But you'd think that the light would come on that doing the same thing over and over again only keeps getting you what you've been getting. I'm not calling for a coaching change, but it seems past time for Coach White to do or require something different, something that looks more like a college basketball team and not a rec league team. As many have pointed out, we are suffering some because of our weak post play due to injuries, but tougher teams find a way to overcome to at least be more competitive. We should really find out what the team and the coaching is really made of with what they do from now until the regular season's end.

Durty South Swamp · Feb 5, 2018

Jbossgator8 said:
We go off the deep end with every loss. Its just what we do here. If Gatorchatter existed in the 90s, we would have fired Spurrier just about every year since he didn't win the SEC or NC EVERY YEAR...Spurrier HIMSELF said that 10 wins wasn't enough for the fans...

just save some bandwidth and post :pe:

STUNZEED · Feb 5, 2018

InstiGATOR1 said:
In UF's last game UAL started bigs

Hall who played 28 minutes and is list at 6'9" 232 lbs
Giddens who played 7 minutes and is list at 6'11" 247 lbs

and brought of the bench

Smith who played 6 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 235 lbs
Key who played 34 minutes and is listed at 6'8 225 lbs

UF on the other hand started

Stone who played 30 minutes and is listed at 6'8" 245 lbs

UF brought off the bench:

Hayes who played 17 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 225 lbs
Gak who played 4 minutes and is listed at 6'11" 245 lbs
Bassett who played 5 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 240 lbs

So UF's bigs that played averaged 6'9.25" and 238.75 lbs
while UAL's bigs that played averaged 6'9.25" and 234.75 lbs

So while Hayes is a bit skinny, he is hardly undersized nor are UF's bigs in general undersized. The big difference was that UAL's bigs were in the game 75 minutes or almost enough for two complete positions while UF's were in the game 56 minutes or less than 1.5 complete position. Put another way UF was playing Koulechov on a big at least nine minutes.

Much to my surprise, while UAL's bigs scored .36 points per minute played and UF only scored .21 points per minute played, UF's bigs grabbed .25 rebounds per minute scored while UAL's bigs only scored .21 rebounds per minutes scored. Or put another way UF's bigs despite playing 19 minutes less than UAL's only grabbed two less rebounds. So that huge rebounding margin was at the guards.

Really the UAL game was lost at the guard positions. Somehow UF let Avery Johnson Jr score 10 points and play turnover free in 21 minutes. Some how while two usually reliable UF rebounders Koulechov and Chiozza each grabbed 2 for a total of 4, Sexton and Ingram grabbed 15 which was 50% above their average which to my thinking is pretty good for a couple of guards and should have been in the scouting report. And of course UF let UAL force the ball out of Chiozza's hand in the second half with predictable offensive (in both meanings) results.

The bottom line with the bigs is:

1. UF has bigs that are plenty big enough for college.

2. UF's bigs have some skills.

3. UF's bigs in my view do not get enough minutes.

4. UF's bigs appear to be under coach to me.

You're spot on. We have a "guard" minded coach who is neglecting our bigs. They aren't undersized. They are undercoached. White's not the answer and he's got to go if things don't improve, especially when or if, the other bigs return

g8tr72 · Feb 5, 2018

GatorStud · Feb 5, 2018

Our team acts like there is a wet floor sign in the paint :grin:

Go Gators!

Scott512 · Feb 5, 2018

but they still have time to right the ship they haven't been the same since they choke that game away to Duke. no you not fire White but if somehow they did I'd like them to try to get Billy d to come back because he's caught in a clusterf@ck of a mess in Oklahoma City with a psychotic team that wins 8 in a row then follow it up with losing four in a row. no doubt the Gators do not look like a tournament team right now but they still have a chance to turn it around to get over 20 wins to have a good record in the SEC make a run in the SEC tournament and get a spot in the NCAA tournament and they damn well better do it.

lagator · Feb 5, 2018

Double Gator Dad said:
I understand where you are coming from and by most metrics you are correct.

I actually believe that we were on our way to someday becoming a true top ten program a few years ago.
We had everything in place, to include a Hall of Fame coach and nearly two decades of sustained success.
All we needed was a better facility and a few more years of winning.
In typical Foley dysfunction, we waited until the Hall of Fame coach departed to then build that facility we needed.
Now we are all set...............Oh wait, we forgot about that whole coach thing.

I wonder how those $2500 seats in the "club" section will be selling next year coming off of a losing record at home?

Sorry but you guys are crazy and part of the problem if you don't see us as a top basketball program. That's why fans should be pissed, particularly at the piss-poor job Mike White is doing. Have you happened to look at all time NCAA winning percentages?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament_all-time_team_records

STUNZEED · Feb 5, 2018

g8tr72 said:

Something happened to the team chemistry after the Duke game. They haven't gelled or seemed like they liked one another since.

NVGator · Feb 5, 2018

lagator said:
Sorry but you guys are crazy and part of the problem if you don't see us as a top basketball program. That's why fans should be pissed, particularly at the piss-poor job Mike White is doing. Have you happened to look at all time NCAA winning percentages?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament_all-time_team_records

4th in Winning Percentage but only 24th in Total Number of Games.

NVGator · Feb 5, 2018

InstiGATOR1 said:
I quoted you saying a 6'9" 225 lbs center is undersized implicitly in college.

Go back and re-read my post. I specifically quoted 2 that used the "undersized" as an excuse for his performance. I pointed out undersize has nothing to do with his ability to catch, hold onto the ball and dunk.

lagator · Feb 5, 2018

NVGator said:
4th in Winning Percentage but only 24th in Total Number of Games.

Yeah, 24th in total number of Games played but 15th in total wins because we are at the top in winning percentage.

I don't care much what happened in the 70's, 80's, even 90's. Despite what our own fans might think, there is zero question based on our frequent deep runs in the tournament including the Elite 8 again last year that we are a top BB program simply based on getting to the tournament, and once there making serious noise.

Winning percentage: Duke, UNC, UCLA, UF

And we were top 10 again this year, Mike Krz called us the best team he had seen all year. Now we're a steaming pile of dung. That's on White. Anyone who says "well, the reason we suck is because that's who we are, a crappy BB program" to me is a major part of the problem and completely ignores our crazy success that I fully expect to continue going forward. If White isn't the guy to continue that success then he needs to GTFO.

Towels 'N Sporks · Feb 5, 2018

Couple of things.

First of all. It's way too early to talk about firing anybody... come on guys. I was saying since Billy left that the glory days of UF basketball are over, and that we should be happy if we can consistently make the tournament with an occasional deep run. I said that I don't think we are ever going to be a big deal over a long period of time in basketball again. We just don't have the fan support of most of the other big basketball programs.

HOWEVER, I was ready to bite my tongue last year with the elite 8 run and after watching the first 8 or so games of this season I really thought maybe we found another Billy Donovan type coach. Obviously my opinion on that has changed recently but it's still wayyyy to early to talk about firing anybody. Basketball is a lot like baseball in that a team can get really hot and make a run (we were the best damn basketball team in the country for Scottie Wilbekin's Senior year but it didn't matter because we had to play a red-hot team that had been pretty average all season. UCONN has done jack diddly-squat since then because they are average with an average coach, but they got hot at the right time that year).

Personally, I have lost just about all hope for this season. I'm not gonna fool myself into thinking that Egbunu is going to be able to come back and become a factor. I'm pretty sure our "big men" (if you would call Stone a big man) are outmatched by every single team we go up against (loyola even... pathetic). HOWEVERRRRRR do not forget that we lost 6 out of 11 in 2006 during with 3 of those losses coming in a row in late Februrary. I'm sure I was on the GSMB message board back then lamenting how Billy had another team that was just gonna choke in the first or second round. We were looking really bad at that time guys. This is a much different team, and I don't see that happening this year (or ever again, truthfully), but it should be enough reason to at least have some hope that we can find the mojo that we had at the beginning of this season again.

Either way, White definitely deserves a couple more years before anybody can say they are satisfied/dissatisfied with him. Let's see how Stokes turns out and if Gak can develop a little bit more. Keith stone would be a small forward in the NBA and the dude plays center for us sometimes. Maybe the development of Gak and Hayes lies partially on coach White, but he definitely can't help with the injuries to Johnson (another under-sized big man by the way), Egbunu, and Stokes.

Trust me, I'll be the first in line calling for White's head if our big men are outmatched by every team next year. Even Billy had down years, but I don't remember him every having so many injuries at the same position.

P.S.
Chiozza is our best player right now... but how far can a 5'10 guard with a very weird and inconsistent release on his jumpshot really take you? He's not as big of a liability on defense as he once was, but he is still very easy to shoot over. If he is having an off night then he is just a warm body on the court.

STUNZEED · Feb 5, 2018

Towels 'N Sporks said:
Couple of things.

First of all. It's way too early to talk about firing anybody... come on guys. I was saying since Billy left that the glory days of UF basketball are over, and that we should be happy if we can consistently make the tournament with an occasional deep run. I said that I don't think we are ever going to be a big deal over a long period of time in basketball again. We just don't have the fan support of most of the other big basketball programs.

HOWEVER, I was ready to bite my tongue last year with the elite 8 run and after watching the first 8 or so games of this season I really thought maybe we found another Billy Donovan type coach. Obviously my opinion on that has changed recently but it's still wayyyy to early to talk about firing anybody. Basketball is a lot like baseball in that a team can get really hot and make a run (we were the best damn basketball team in the country for Scottie Wilbekin's Senior year but it didn't matter because we had to play a red-hot team that had been pretty average all season. UCONN has done jack diddly-squat since then because they are average with an average coach, but they got hot at the right time that year).

Personally, I have lost just about all hope for this season. I'm not gonna fool myself into thinking that Egbunu is going to be able to come back and become a factor. I'm pretty sure our "big men" (if you would call Stone a big man) are outmatched by every single team we go up against (loyola even... pathetic). HOWEVERRRRRR do not forget that we lost 6 out of 11 in 2006 during with 3 of those losses coming in a row in late Februrary. I'm sure I was on the GSMB message board back then lamenting how Billy had another team that was just gonna choke in the first or second round. We were looking really bad at that time guys. This is a much different team, and I don't see that happening this year (or ever again, truthfully), but it should be enough reason to at least have some hope that we can find the mojo that we had at the beginning of this season again.

Either way, White definitely deserves a couple more years before anybody can say they are satisfied/dissatisfied with him. Let's see how Stokes turns out and if Gak can develop a little bit more. Keith stone would be a small forward in the NBA and the dude plays center for us sometimes. Maybe the development of Gak and Hayes lies partially on coach White, but he definitely can't help with the injuries to Johnson (another under-sized big man by the way), Egbunu, and Stokes.

Trust me, I'll be the first in line calling for White's head if our big men are outmatched by every team next year. Even Billy had down years, but I don't remember him every having so many injuries at the same position.

P.S.
Chiozza is our best player right now... but how far can a 5'10 guard with a very weird and inconsistent release on his jumpshot really take you? He's not as big of a liability on defense as he once was, but he is still very easy to shoot over. If he is having an off night then he is just a warm body on the court.

You seriously comparing the 2006 team to 2017's? :lmao:

Double Gator Dad · Feb 5, 2018

lagator said:
Sorry but you guys are crazy and part of the problem if you don't see us as a top basketball program. That's why fans should be pissed, particularly at the piss-poor job Mike White is doing. Have you happened to look at all time NCAA winning percentages?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament_all-time_team_records

I think you are misunderstanding my comments or maybe we have different definitions of a "Top Program"

I define a program using metrics that go way beyond winning and losing to include silly things like attendance. We can NOT call ourselves a top program when we still cannot sellout our arena on a regular basis. I still marvel at how Billy was able to convince topflight players to come to UF when they visit and see 3-4k empty seats for 80% of the games.

You can:
Win a lot of games over an extended period of time
Have a great coach
Have great facilities
Have a rabid fanbase
Have lots of history and tradition
Have high expectations for your program

But you must have ALL of these attributes to be a top program. Many people confuse winning with top programs.

Here is an example to prove my position:

Miami football has won as many games in the last 30 years as anybody but NOBODY would suggest that Miami is a top football program because they have NONE of the other attributes I listed.

I stated that I believed that we were well on our way towards this goal when Billy was still here. I suggested that a new arena and a few more years and we would be there. Conversely, I stated that without Billy, the new arena doesn't matter because we don't have THE key metric (coaching) anymore.

Your response suggests that if I don't think we are a top program then I don't get it and I am the problem. Remember, I am the guy that had season tickets since 1981 so I think I have a very good handle on our program and how we stack up versus the rest of the country.

For me to slam our coach and state that he is keeping us from being a top program and then have you state that I don't hold him to a high enough standard is dysfunctional at best.

t-gator · Feb 5, 2018

SamIamGator92 said:
He does have trouble holding onto rebounds. And has zero post game. He's getting thrown around like a rag doll. He doing a fine job with his help defense and blocked shots. Plus, the guy hustles. He's just limited, talent wise... so is Gak for that matter. Our better forwards are all injured.

Who is our better forwards?

LeeForThree · Feb 5, 2018

rogdochar said:
Their game-style is easy to take advantage of, and that's because White has built a disadvantageous team. Since White likes going small for the most game-minutes, then he must be practicing the small style the most time. Whereas, insist that all learn to use the players inside, Hayes, Gak, Stone, etc by practicing it the most. Doesn't a smart coach develop specific players' skills by pounding the lessons home in drill after drill. You don't much need coaching for jacking up 3-arch shots. Players can do that solo or loosely in shoot-around fun.

If White is the CEO UF basketball needs then he needs to hire a dynamic "big-man" coach.
But there's the rub: I think such dynamism would be cacophonous to White. It would jolt his transcendental soul. White cannot be practicing these guys on what they need. In-game there is no confident execution, there's too few options players look for, and there's no pragmatic respect for the shot-clock, for where your rebounders are, for spotting teammates' constant hustling-movement (of which they do too little). Seems White has built a mess.

Since all this is not fun to watch, White is not fun to have as coach.

Should hire Noah when he is done in the NBA....or Mike Miller for the time being

LeeForThree · Feb 5, 2018

Gator Fever said:
Even with some good wins we are only # 49 in the RPI rankings.

We still have about 6 games vs RPI top 30 teams so by default our schedule stength will increase....RPI will as well if we win any of those games

LeeForThree · Feb 5, 2018

g8tr72 said:
I'm interested to know what recommendations that posters here would make toward improving the offense with the personnel this team has. Specifically, what type of offense sets do you think could and should be executed in the half court set.

Thanks.

1. Run
2. Stop the dribble drive and go back to more Billy D style offense based on screens and ball movment
3. Play 2 bigs part of the time at least. Teams are pushing the 3pt line making us work harder for easy shots
4. No Egor at PF
5. Hudson starts, Egor off the bench
6. Run
7. Run
8.....you get the point lol

Captain Sasquatch · Feb 5, 2018

diehardg8r said:
When your team just quits playing the type of ball you have instructed them to play and go off the reservation to do what they want (Chiozza) they are basically saying fk you. BENCH HIS GD AZZ......PERIOD! His T.O's and stupid shots outweigh the occasional heroic finish.

WTF are you talking about? Chiozza is 6th in the COUNTRY in assist turnover ratio. The COUNTRY. That's 351 teams' worth of guards, and he's 6th. He's far and away the MVP of the team, and we'd probably have a losing record without him. And you want to bench him?? GTFO! :lmao2:

Fire Mike White? Gators crushed like bugs at home to Alabama

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