Fire Mike White? Gators crushed like bugs at home to Alabama

[Egor's Assistant]

I understand where you are coming from and by most metrics you are correct.
I wonder how those $2500 seats in the "club" section will be selling next year coming off of a losing record at home?

I absolutely hate seeing those empty fcvking seats on TV every freaking time. Our stadium, even when full, seems half empty and quiet as the library. They need to fill those seats with Rowdies if the alumni ain't there.

 

[Marine1]

You cannot win consistently in high level college basketball without any post presence. It seems too simple a concept to be the truth. But it is. In todays run and gun offensive atmosphere you no longer need a 7 foot dominant center to win but you still must have some post presence on both sides of the ball. Hayes works his azz off and plays good defense for a 6’9 220 pounder. He also has outstanding shot blocking instincts. But he cannot face the basket and score....in fact, he can’t score much from anywhere. On the defensive end..for all his intensity...he is 25 pounds too light and is often thrown around like a rag doll. He is a 4 playing the 5 in SEC basketball. I love this kid but he is not in his best comfort zone. Gak does not appear to be ready or able to compete at this level.

I agree with just about everything folks have pointed out concerning pace and an over reliance on the 3 ball. There are also deficiencies that need to be corrected that are effort related rather than talent related...such as sprinting back on D.

But as one announcer very correctly pointed out....we have a team composed of many very quiet, shy players. We don’t have the “hard to define but you know it when you see it” swag that is absolutely needed in today’s game. We are small, soft and quiet. Yet we have some very, very talented players.

We need a couple of big uglies in the paint...someone capable of averaging 9-10 boards a game. We need an alpha male that leads vocally and with intensity.

I think we can put Humpty Dumpty back together again...and quickly. We have some good talent coming back and coming in next year. This year we have to play for dignity and pride and hope to God we can get our bigs back on the floor. Mike White is not squeezing every bit of talent out of these guys right now....he needs to get more directive and hold players accountable....but even if he was this team isn’t going deep without a legitimate post presence.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

I mentioned that same point about Okauru at the Baylor game that he seems not to be playing. but then I thought with Bassett and Ballard playing along with Gak, that Mike can push Egor into the backcourt and still have 4 guards to rotate with Egor, Hudson, Cheez and Allen. I don't think there is any PG controversy b/c other than Cheez, there is not one on the roster. You see how even more stagnant the offense is when Cheez is on the bench. Allen is certainly not a PG and watching Okauru, I don;t think he is a PG either,. All the more reason to have a motion offense, passing game when Cheez is on the bench aand not depending on someone else to facilitate. Egor is the closest thing to a facilitator behind Cheez that we have.

I get your point on Okauru, it could just be a staff evaluation that he can not handle the PG. Really what UAL did to UF yesterday in the second half was force the ball out of Chiozza's hand and make Allen handle the ball in the half court offense. UF did not fight that much, maybe because Chiozza was over matched?

Still on the lineup issue, White could certainly have a rotation of:

Guard: Chiozza (30 min), Allen (25), Hudson (25)
SF: Koulechov (25), Stone (15)
Post: Hayes (25), Stone (10), Gak (25), Bassett (20)

with Chiozza, Allen, Koulechov, Stone and Hayes as starters is usually the case now.

Now if Gak can not go that many minutes, then Okauru can take some minutes say 10 in the guard rotation, Hudson can move 10 minutes to the SF rotation and then Stone can play more minutes at the post positions, PF in his case, reducing the minutes for Gak or Bassett as needed.

Personally, I don't think White needs to use the bench as much as define roles and get on people during the game it they are not doing their jobs. Hayes needs to get on the boards. Allen, Hudson and Koulechov need to knock down open 3s. Koulechov MUST rebound. Stone needs to score a bit and rebound a bit. Chiozza must take care of the ball and find open shots for teammates. Bassett and Gak must rebound first and score a bit if they can.

AND THEY ALL MUST PLAY DEFENSE. I do wonder if our opponents play such good offense against UF's defense because the No-motion offense White runs, allows them to rest on defense against UF? Heck if UF had a long offensive position, some opponent might need to stretch after not moving for so long!

 

[rogdochar]

The coaches have very limited time with the players during the week. I forget how many hours per week they are allowed to practice during the season, but it's not enough to install both offensive and defensive tweaks. Contrary to popular opinion, we run lots of successful set plays. But once those have played out and other teams adjust, we're fading badly at the end of games.

Still, all the other coaches have the same time limits. UF should be doing a a bit better say 3-4 wins better?

 

[Egor's Assistant]

You cannot win consistently in high level college basketball without any post presence. It seems too simple a concept to be the truth. But it is. In todays run and gun offensive atmosphere you no longer need a 7 foot dominant center to win but you still must have some post presence on both sides of the ball. Hayes works his azz off and plays good defense for a 6’9 220 pounder. He also has outstanding shot blocking instincts. But he cannot face the basket and score....in fact, he can’t score much from anywhere. On the defensive end..for all his intensity...he is 25 pounds too light and is often thrown around like a rag doll. He is a 4 playing the 5 in SEC basketball. I love this kid but he is not in his best comfort zone. Gak does not appear to be ready or able to compete at this level.

Your analysis is spot on. Hayes is doing everything an undersized player can do. Spidey hustles his azz off. He's second in the conference in blocked shots. This team has no balance. Let's hope for a major mid-season turn around.

 

[Egor's Assistant]

Still, all the other coaches have the same time limits. UF should be doing a a bit better say 3-4 wins better?

I agree. Coach is not performing well and neither are his players. Just not sure they can game plan their way out of having zero healthy centers on the roster.

 

[NVGator]

Hayes works his azz off and plays good defense for a 6’9 220 pounder. He also has outstanding shot blocking instincts. But he cannot face the basket and score....in fact, he can’t score much from anywhere. On the defensive end..for all his intensity...he is 25 pounds too light and is often thrown around like a rag doll. He is a 4 playing the 5 in SEC basketball. I love this kid but he is not in his best comfort zone.

Your analysis is spot on. Hayes is doing everything an undersized player can do. Spidey hustles his azz off. He's second in the conference in blocked shots. This team has no balance. Let's hope for a major mid-season turn around.

Unfortunately, Hayes being undersized to play the position has absolutely nothing to do with his hands of stone and can't make a wide open layup to save his life.

 

[Egor's Assistant]

Unfortunately, Hayes being undersized to play the position has absolutely nothing to do with his hands of stone and can't make a wide open layup to save his life.

He does have trouble holding onto rebounds. And has zero post game. He's getting thrown around like a rag doll. He doing a fine job with his help defense and blocked shots. Plus, the guy hustles. He's just limited, talent wise... so is Gak for that matter. Our better forwards are all injured.

 

[Marine1]

Unfortunately, Hayes being undersized to play the position has absolutely nothing to do with his hands of stone and can't make a wide open layup to save his life.

True...his hands are bad. It is why he is often wide open but does not get the ball...particularly with the high pick and roll. It also costs him several rebounds per game. But the kid brings it every night. I like his defense but he’s just giving away too many pounds.

They need to get him up to 240 lbs.

 

[Marine1]

He does have trouble holding onto rebounds. And has zero post game. He's getting thrown around like a rag doll. He doing a fine job with his help defense and blocked shots. Plus, the guy hustles. He's just limited, talent wise... so is Gak for that matter. Our better forwards are all injured.

Gak has a bit more size than Hayes but none of his athleticism.

 

[InstiGATOR1]

Unfortunately, Hayes being undersized

In UF's last game UAL started bigs

Hall who played 28 minutes and is list at 6'9" 232 lbs
Giddens who played 7 minutes and is list at 6'11" 247 lbs

and brought of the bench

Smith who played 6 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 235 lbs
Key who played 34 minutes and is listed at 6'8 225 lbs

UF on the other hand started

Stone who played 30 minutes and is listed at 6'8" 245 lbs

UF brought off the bench:

Hayes who played 17 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 225 lbs
Gak who played 4 minutes and is listed at 6'11" 245 lbs
Bassett who played 5 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 240 lbs

So UF's bigs that played averaged 6'9.25" and 238.75 lbs
while UAL's bigs that played averaged 6'9.25" and 234.75 lbs

So while Hayes is a bit skinny, he is hardly undersized nor are UF's bigs in general undersized. The big difference was that UAL's bigs were in the game 75 minutes or almost enough for two complete positions while UF's were in the game 56 minutes or less than 1.5 complete position. Put another way UF was playing Koulechov on a big at least nine minutes.

Much to my surprise, while UAL's bigs scored .36 points per minute played and UF only scored .21 points per minute played, UF's bigs grabbed .25 rebounds per minute scored while UAL's bigs only scored .21 rebounds per minutes scored. Or put another way UF's bigs despite playing 19 minutes less than UAL's only grabbed two less rebounds. So that huge rebounding margin was at the guards.

Really the UAL game was lost at the guard positions. Somehow UF let Avery Johnson Jr score 10 points and play turnover free in 21 minutes. Some how while two usually reliable UF rebounders Koulechov and Chiozza each grabbed 2 for a total of 4, Sexton and Ingram grabbed 15 which was 50% above their average which to my thinking is pretty good for a couple of guards and should have been in the scouting report. And of course UF let UAL force the ball out of Chiozza's hand in the second half with predictable offensive (in both meanings) results.

The bottom line with the bigs is:

1. UF has bigs that are plenty big enough for college.

2. UF's bigs have some skills.

3. UF's bigs in my view do not get enough minutes.

4. UF's bigs appear to be under coach to me.

 

[NVGator]

In UF's last game UAL started bigs

Hall who played 28 minutes and is list at 6'9" 232 lbs
Giddens who played 7 minutes and is list at 6'11" 247 lbs

and brought of the bench

Smith who played 6 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 235 lbs
Key who played 34 minutes and is listed at 6'8 225 lbs

UF on the other hand started

Stone who played 30 minutes and is listed at 6'8" 245 lbs

UF brought off the bench:

Hayes who played 17 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 225 lbs
Gak who played 4 minutes and is listed at 6'11" 245 lbs
Bassett who played 5 minutes and is listed at 6'9" 240 lbs

So UF's bigs that played averaged 6'9.25" and 238.75 lbs
while UAL's bigs that played averaged 6'9.25" and 234.75 lbs

So while Hayes is a bit skinny, he is hardly undersized nor are UF's bigs in general undersized. The big difference was that UAL's bigs were in the game 75 minutes or almost enough for two complete positions while UF's were in the game 56 minutes or less than 1.5 complete position. Put another way UF was playing Koulechov on a big at least nine minutes.

Much to my surprise, while UAL's bigs scored .36 points per minute played and UF only scored .21 points per minute played, UF's bigs grabbed .25 rebounds per minute scored while UAL's bigs only scored .21 rebounds per minutes scored. Or put another way UF's bigs despite playing 19 minutes less than UAL's only grabbed two less rebounds. So that huge rebounding margin was at the guards.

Really the UAL game was lost at the guard positions. Somehow UF let Avery Johnson Jr score 10 points and play turnover free in 21 minutes. Some how while two usually reliable UF rebounders Koulechov and Chiozza each grabbed 2 for a total of 4, Sexton and Ingram grabbed 15 which was 50% above their average which to my thinking is pretty good for a couple of guards and should have been in the scouting report. And of course UF let UAL force the ball out of Chiozza's hand in the second half with predictable offensive (in both meanings) results.

The bottom line with the bigs is:

1. UF has bigs that are plenty big enough for college.

2. UF's bigs have some skills.

3. UF's bigs in my view do not get enough minutes.

4. UF's bigs appear to be under coach to me.

Don't quote me trying to defend our "Bigs". I was merely pointing out that if those who want to say Hayes is undersized, that doesn't excuse his lack of ability to catch the ball, grab a rebound, or make a layup. But Golly Gee, he hustles and he tries. May as well add that he's "Having fun".

 

[InstiGATOR1]

Don't quote me trying to defend our "Bigs". I was merely pointing out that if those who want to say Hayes is undersized, that doesn't excuse his lack of ability to catch the ball, grab a rebound, or make a layup. But Golly Gee, he hustles and he tries. May as well add that he's "Having fun".

Well I did not quote you as having defended UF's bigs. Actually, I defended them in my post. I quoted you saying a 6'9" 225 lbs center is undersized implicitly in college. I could go back and look up the size of the bigs others of our opponents play and I think it is the same thing. Hayes is a tad, just a tad skinny, but he is hardly undersized. I would say under-coached, but that is another topic as are his hands.

 

[WBVersion3]

Absolutely ridiculous to even insinuate that White should be fired.

 

[Gator Fever]

Even with some good wins we are only # 49 in the RPI rankings.

 

[Marine1]

Hayes is listed at 225 but he is not. They have struggled to put weight on him and I’ve heard they got him up to 218 which appears to be more accurate. That’s too light. Gak and Basset bring up our size average but neither appear to be ready to contribute meaningfully this season and neither play many minutes. So we play Hayes the most and then go small. Or smaller I should say. Keith Stone is 245 lbs but is in absolutely no way a center....especially defensively and plays almost entirely as a stretch 4. He played 30 of the 56 minutes attributed to our bigs.

We need a big body. Personally I don’t think Egbunu is as good as some make him out to be but he is a legitimate post presence. He takes up space and provides strength. He can legitimately get you 8-12 points nightly and 8-10 rebounds a game. Although not a superstar he has to be respected on the block which creates space for shooters.

I think a strong argument could be made that we would have been a much better team this year with Egbunu and Stokes on the block. My take is our lack of size...or maybe we should be looking at strength rather than size...is causing us to play guys out of position. Stone at 5 instead of 4, Egor at 4 instead of 3, Hayes at 5 instead of 4.

Certainly all the comments about our guards and our inconsistency are accurate. We need greater player and ball movement with less reliance on the 3.

 

[g8tr72]

I'm interested to know what recommendations that posters here would make toward improving the offense with the personnel this team has. Specifically, what type of offense sets do you think could and should be executed in the half court set.

Thanks.

 

[alcoholica]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Egor playing the point forward.

Hayes is just bad. Outside of blocking shots, he doesn’t do much right. I think he’s a decent kid with effort, but he doesn’t even really box out.

Allen is not a spot up shooter, he is much much better off the dribble.

Stone is coming along, but can’t lose track on defense.

Cheez needs to slow down and quit over extending.

White could probably make some headway by benching some guys who go rogue on the court.

 

[Gator Fever]

Absolutely ridiculous to even insinuate that White should be fired.

Is that you coach?

 

[alcoholica]

I'm interested to know what recommendations that posters here would make toward improving the offense with the personnel this team has. Specifically, what type of offense sets do you think could and should be executed in the half court set.

Thanks.

I’d run some off ball action and try to break some guys free. Also a great way to get fouls and wear down the defense.

I’d go look at some old Temple film or old Nova film where they typically run 3 guard set and pick up some ideas. The old Princeton offense could give you ideas as well.

I don’t think simple motion will do. You need some hard back picks and screens. Maybe some pick and pop action with Stone.