Florida Gators, Jim McElwain building like Clemson, not Alabama

[Gator Fever]

Dabo was recruiting the top skill players and the top DTs even if his overall recruiting ranking wasn't the best. Not sure this is a good comparison at all.

 

[BMF]

Just give him 20 seasons huh? maybe one season he'll get it right.

That was UGA's motto w/ Richt....until they finally cut the cord.

 

[Theologator]

I was talking about the D line goof. You may have not heard, but MacNusselchump forgot to sign DTs, and says i that our 240-250 pounders are DTs.

You keep saying this, but there is not a single DT on the roster at 250lbs or less. Every DL in that weight range is clearly an end. There are 5 of them on the roster, 4 of whom are freshmen.

 

[BMF]

You keep saying this, but there is not a single DT on the roster at 250lbs or less. Every DL in that weight range is clearly an end. There are 5 of them on the roster, 4 of whom are freshmen.

He's mostly talking about us signing DE's that we hope to grow into DT's (such as Polite, who is struggling to get over 275....and Ancrum and Justus Reed types).....

 

[T REX]

I hear all the time that "pumpers" cherry pick. You have said many times that Mac owns his first recruiting class even though he was only on campus for two months. I agree. Now all of a sudden Dabo is not responsible for the first 7 games he coached because it wasn't a full season? Even though he was an assistant coach at Clemson for 6 years prior to being named head coach? That seems hypocritical.

However, let's stick with your narrative and pretend that Dabo was somehow not responsible for coaching Clemson in 2008.

In 2009 Clemson was 9-5 and 6-3 in the ACC. Dabo went 1-3 against ranked teams and lost to instate rival South Carolina 34-17. That same season he brought in the #31 ranked recruiting class which featured a total of 15 players. The class had five 4* players, eight 3* players and two that were not ranked at all.

In 2010 Clemson was 6-7 and 4-4 in the ACC. Dabo went 1-3 against ranked teams and lost to instate rival South Carolina 29-7. He lost to South Florida in the Meineke Car Care Bowl. That same season he brought in the #28 ranked recruiting class which featured a total of 24 players. The class had three 4* players, eighteen 3* players and three 2* players.

McElwain has clearly outperformed Dabo through each of their first 2 full seasons at the respective schools.

I never said anything close to that. My only point was that he was never going to get fired for 6-7 in his third year(only 2nd full year).

Try again.

 

[Gator2222]

When you look at the difference in skill players in the top 10 at their position it's not even close. I went ahead and looked it up for you and used rivals which is the best recruiting imo and most on this site. It will show the position where they ranked at said position and what their national rank was. And the list is only skill players because that's where I've said is the biggest difference. I threw in 2018 for giggles.

Clemson
2014
Qb #1, #31
Wr #9, #68
Rb #10, #109
2015
Wr #4, #17
Rb #5, #23
Te #3, #111
2016
Wr #4 #36
Rb #4 #102
2017
Qb #2, #18
Qb #10, #184
Wr #2, #14
2018
Qb #1, #1

Florida
2014
Qb #3, # 46 (no longer with team)
2015
None
2016
Qb #6, #57
2017
Te #9 #NR

Clearly there is a major major difference in recruiting when you look at it like this. So in total Clemson has brought in 11 skill players who ranked top 10 at their position and 7/11 we're rivals 100 players. On the other side Fl has brought in a total of 2/3 wrre rival 100 players and one is not with the team anymore. It's no wonder Clemson had an offense that ranked 12th last year they bring in top talent at the skill position every year. And I didn't even include Ray Ray which is their Rb who ranked top 50 overall.

In your initial post you said Dabo brings in players ranked in the top 15 at their position and Mac doesn't. That is why I used top 15 as the metric in my reply. In your follow up you switched to top 10.

Using your original metric, there isn't a lot of difference. Of course, we can always change the stats to suit any argument.

The point of the original post is that Mac is doing things similarly to Clemson. As I said earlier, the fact that Dabo has been at Clemson for years and is coming off two straight NC appearances gives him a huge advantage. Mac walked into a dumpster fire and isn't far behind Dabo.

 

[Gator2222]

I was talking about the D line goof. You may have not heard, but MacNusselchump forgot to sign DTs, and says i that our 240-250 pounders are DTs.

But, no, our ragtag FIU talent OL wont be anywhere as goos as Clempson's either. I see no reason to believe we're going to score on Clown Town this year either.

I will concede the d-line may be a tad on the thin side. We are going to have to utilize freshmen. Hopefully they surprise us.

 

[Gator2222]

I never said anything close to that. My only point was that he was never going to get fired for 6-7 in his third year(only 2nd full year).

Try again.

Not sure which point you are contesting, that you have said Mac owns his first class despite the timeline or that Dabo's first 7 games don't really count.

Either way, the main point was that Mac has outperformed Dabo over the course of the first two full seasons. I honestly think the negators at Florida would have been after Dabo's head as well if he were at Florida and put up the same numbers.

I don't think I have ever heard you take a stand on Dabo either way. Good coach all along or bad coach that suddenly figured things out? Personally, I think it just took a while to get all the pieces in place. Clemson was a hard sell when he became head coach. The real difference was the QB.

 

[gators4224]

He's mostly talking about us signing DE's that we hope to grow into DT's (such as Polite, who is struggling to get over 275....and Ancrum and Justus Reed types).....

Justus reed is from Muschamp but i get your point, also I think its ok to take guys who will grow into DT's as long as you have true DT's as well so that those guys who need to grow have time/can move to SDE if they dont work out at DT.

 

[EuroGator]

How quickly do head coaches win championships?
I thought back to something I wrote back in January. That piece explored recruiting, especially for programs that win national championships.

Taking that concept further, I decided to examine how long it took coaches to win their first national championship with a program. Note that NA means that the coach has a previous championship with that team.

Thanks for posting some original material and giving us a different perspective to look at. No one is surprised at how the thread went, but at least something original has been posted.

/end &
resume the Faeces Fest

 

[GatorSkin]

I stopped reading after I read this line of nonsense

"Nobody is going to confuse Jim McElwain’s recruiting ability with Saban, Meyer or Fisher. But he is an unbelievable in-game coach"

 

[NavetG8r]

I honestly think the negators at Florida would have been after Dabo's head as well if he were at Florida and put up the same numbers.

And last year's NC would never have happened. Sometimes patience pays off.

 

[GatorMan5K]

I can see heads exploding in front of computers at the slightest mention that something positive COULD happen.

How dare you have hope! The only way to show school spirit is to shyt on the coach and everything he does!

 

[ThreatMatrix]

It's good to see everybody come around to my opinion that we should've hired Dabo.

 

[rogdochar]

So we're giving him 9 seasons to prove himself?

Maybe 5 seasons averaging 9+ wins?
I see Gator2222 as the most straightforward on this subject.
Being unbiased on recruiting results, you have to include the very huge advantage Swinney had = prior to his taking over as HC, for 6 years he had been a Clemson coach, recruiting the area, building relationships with kids & their parents. Dabo has been continuing in "his Clemson league" for 14 years now (to 2017). Mac suddenly "stumbled" into our UF ocean floored Mariana trench. Mac is beginning his 3rd year while getting us the fame-recognition of 2 straight appearances in the Georgia Dome, biggest SEC event, for Pete's sake. Sure near NFL-caliber Bama has clobbered us. But remember that bowl game of the Meyer-Strong time, when we were favored yet Louisville clobbered us?

 

[ThreatMatrix]

I stopped reading after I read this line of nonsense

"Nobody is going to confuse Jim McElwain’s recruiting ability with Saban, Meyer or Fisher. But he is an unbelievable in-game coach"

The media isn't known for saying much negative about a coach but there is a good deal of respect for Mac out there.

 

[T REX]

Not sure which point you are contesting, that you have said Mac owns his first class despite the timeline or that Dabo's first 7 games don't really count.

Either way, the main point was that Mac has outperformed Dabo over the course of the first two full seasons. I honestly think the negators at Florida would have been after Dabo's head as well if he were at Florida and put up the same numbers.

I don't think I have ever heard you take a stand on Dabo either way. Good coach all along or bad coach that suddenly figured things out? Personally, I think it just took a while to get all the pieces in place. Clemson was a hard sell when he became head coach. The real difference was the QB.

My point is the article is total BS. I'm not sure what you are arguing. Did you write it or something?

 

[gatorkev85]

In your initial post you said Dabo brings in players ranked in the top 15 at their position and Mac doesn't. That is why I used top 15 as the metric in my reply. In your follow up you switched to top 10.

Using your original metric, there isn't a lot of difference. Of course, we can always change the stats to suit any argument.

The point of the original post is that Mac is doing things similarly to Clemson. As I said earlier, the fact that Dabo has been at Clemson for years and is coming off two straight NC appearances gives him a huge advantage. Mac walked into a dumpster fire and isn't far behind Dabo.

If you go back and read it correctly I said Dabo is bringing in players that rank inside the top 10 at the position and Mac is bringing in players outside of the top 15. I never said to use the top 15. Plus even if you go back to Dabo's 1st 4 classes he signed 4 Wr that ranked in the top 10 2 Rb and 1 Qb that's a total of 7 skill players that ranked inside the top 10 at their position

 

[gatorkev85]

And last year's NC would never have happened. Sometimes patience pays off.

There is a difference between Mac and Dabo's in Dabo's 1st 4 recruiting classes he was pulled in 7 skill players that ranked inside of the top 10 at their position so it was clear he was building so he deserved more time. Mac on the other hand has pulled 2 skill players that ranked inside the top 10 at their position.
2017
Wr #44
Wr #16
Rb # 19
Rb #16
Qb #16
Te #9

2016
Wr #59
Wr #35
Wr #36
Wr #15
Rb #11
Qb #6
Qb #NR

2015
Wr #36
Wr # NR
Te #28
Te #18
Rb #20
Rb #25

 

[MJMGator]

Maybe 5 seasons averaging 9+ wins?
I see Gator2222 as the most straightforward on this subject.
Being unbiased on recruiting results, you have to include the very huge advantage Swinney had = prior to his taking over as HC, for 6 years he had been a Clemson coach, recruiting the area, building relationships with kids & their parents. Dabo has been continuing in "his Clemson league" for 14 years now (to 2017). Mac suddenly "stumbled" into our UF ocean floored Mariana trench. Mac is beginning his 3rd year while getting us the fame-recognition of 2 straight appearances in the Georgia Dome, biggest SEC event, for Pete's sake. Sure near NFL-caliber Bama has clobbered us. But remember that bowl game of the Meyer-Strong time, when we were favored yet Louisville clobbered us?

That Louisville loss was when Chump was the HC...not Meyer.