Looks like we'll have a few 2022 rule changes for football

[oxrageous]

How many times have we held our collective breaths as a top player writhes in pain, rolling around the ground, only to find out it was a cramp? If you want there to be a review of these situations the following week, fine. But how exactly do you prove that the player had a cramp and couldn’t walk? Or how do you prove he didn’t?

Again, I think it will force teams to be more careful in how they do it. No perfectly fine walking, then dropping to the ground, or worse, coaches actually blatantly telling their players to get down(NorveLLLL last year). But that’s the extent.

I think you’re losing sight of the slippery slope it would create to have a judging system the following week and punishments handed out by random people. It may sound like “justice” now. But wait until star defensive player has a legit cramp one week and is suspended the next week in a major game. And if you don’t think teams like Alabama, and to a lesser degree uga, will absolutely have sway in this you’re crazy. One of the most common criticisms of the targeting rule is the subjectivity of the call and how impactful it can be. You really want to add another level of that?

Tempo is fine, but if you can’t win without it, you suck and should probably find a different career path.

This got a like?

I disagree with every word of your post. Letting cheating go isn't the solution here. It will continue to get worse and even more blatant.

 

[soflagator]

This got a like?

I disagree with every word of your post. Letting cheating go isn't the solution here. It will continue to get worse and even more blatant.

And it’s early. Guys like Bart and NV aren’t even awake yet.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

that was my thought as well. They need to be penalized in game. Not after. Teams will just pay fines if it gives them wins.

The best way to deal with the issue is this.
Get injured to the point the clock must stop the player sits for the rest of the quarter if in the 1st or 3rd quarters...
Get injured to the point the clock stops at the end of the 2nd quarter or 4th quarter the player must sit out the next half. In the case of the 4th quarter scenario the player sits out the rest of the game AND first half of the next game.

 

[GatorJ]

The best way to deal with the issue is this.
Get injured to the point the clock must stop the player sits for the rest of the quarter if in the 1st or 3rd quarters...
Get injured to the point the clock stops at the end of the 2nd quarter or 4th quarter the player must sit out the next half. In the case of the 4th quarter scenario the player sits out the rest of the game AND first half of the next game.

I don’t think that’ll work. You’ll have kids getting injured but not coming out of games and then really injuring themselves.

But I think you’re onto something. What if they took them out for the next two plays? Or took them out for the next two minutes? Or for the rest of the drive?

 

[soflagator]

The best way to deal with the issue is this.
Get injured to the point the clock must stop the player sits for the rest of the quarter if in the 1st or 3rd quarters...
Get injured to the point the clock stops at the end of the 2nd quarter or 4th quarter the player must sit out the next half. In the case of the 4th quarter scenario the player sits out the rest of the game AND first half of the next game.

Guys, they literally detailed exactly why this cannot be implemented, nearly word for word what several of us have said. These are football players. They aren’t going to stay down long enough to risk missing a quarter, or(serious Crete territory here) part of the next game. So players will just keep playing and a make a potentially bad injury a career ending one. It’s a brutal contact sport where players often get seriously hurt, or feel that they potentially have. You can’t dissect what their motive may be. At most you can force them out a few plays. Anything beyond that won’t happen.

And some of these ringing endorsements of the NCAA making arbitrary judgements as to how hurt one of our players “really was” is absurd. How the hell can anyone be ok with getting random punishments handed down by the ever consistent NCAA? You really want to give some governing agency that kind of power, which they can wield at any time if they feel you’re not doing things they way they’d like? Fine by me, I guess. I just didn’t realize we had so many Elizabeth Warren’s on this board.

Also, to be clear, as much as I may not like it myself, it’s NOT actually cheating. Cheating is being able to break a rule or standard that another opponent is held to, making the move “unfair”. If our players can do it just as much to them as they can to use, it’s a level playing field. It’s not going away completely. So move on.

 

[Back Alley Gator]

Guys, they literally detailed exactly why this cannot be implemented, nearly word for word what several of us have said. These are football players. They aren’t going to stay down long enough to risk missing a quarter, or(serious Crete territory here) part of the next game. So players will just keep playing and a make a potentially bad injury a career ending one. It’s a brutal contact sport where players often get seriously hurt, or feel that they potentially have. You can’t dissect what their motive may be. At most you can force them out a few plays. Anything beyond that won’t happen.

And some of these ringing endorsements of the NCAA making arbitrary judgements as to how hurt one of our players “really was” is absurd. How the hell can anyone be ok with getting random punishments handed down by the ever consistent NCAA? You really want to give some governing agency that kind of power, which they can wield at any time if they feel you’re not doing things they way they’d like? Fine by me, I guess. I just didn’t realize we had so many Elizabeth Warren’s on this board.

Also, to be clear, as much as I may not like it myself, it’s NOT actually cheating. Cheating is being able to break a rule or standard that another opponent is held to, making the move “unfair”. If our players can do it just as much to them as they can to use, it’s a level playing field. It’s not going away completely. So move on.

Yes, this post got a like.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

Guys, they literally detailed exactly why this cannot be implemented, nearly word for word what several of us have said. These are football players. They aren’t going to stay down long enough to risk missing a quarter, or(serious Crete territory here) part of the next game. So players will just keep playing and a make a potentially bad injury a career ending one. It’s a brutal contact sport where players often get seriously hurt, or feel that they potentially have. You can’t dissect what their motive may be. At most you can force them out a few plays. Anything beyond that won’t happen.

Exactly....guys aren't going to risk missing playing if they're not really hurt, right? If THEY ARE then they shouldn't/wouldn't be able to come back so soon anyway....What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[soflagator]

Exactly....guys aren't going to risk missing playing if they're not really hurt, right? If THEY ARE then they shouldn't/wouldn't be able to come back so soon anyway....What's so hard to understand about that?

You’re right. No one ever has cramps. Ever. Trask didn’t go down and look like a season ending disaster in 2019 only to return a series later.

Are you really suggesting that players don’t often actually get hurt, gather themselves on the sidelines, get taped up, receive mental assurance from a trainer that it’s not something greater, and then play through the pain the rest of the game/season? This is your contention?

And no, they will absolutely risk playing, even seriously hurt, if it means they’d have to otherwise sit out the rest of the series(last possession) or quarter(4th). AR had a ligament tear in his knee against fsu. Welcome to the male mindset. It’s why we almost fall of ladders putting up lights(no one I know personally) and refuse to stop for directions.

You also don’t address my issue with the NCAA determining who is actually hurt and who was just faking, which apparently you’re a big fan of.

 

[oxrageous]

Never thought so many people would support blatant cheating in games.

 

[oxrageous]

Yes, this post got a like.

You won't be liking anyone for a while - just took that privilege away from you. I've got to get you back under control before you really hurt someone.

 

[Back Alley Gator]

You won't be liking anyone for a while - just took that privilege away from you. I've got to get you back under control before you really hurt someone.

Back Alley Gator likes this post. :)

 

[soflagator]

Never thought so many people would support blatant cheating in games.

Blatantly paying a player to attend your university would’ve been considered cheating before NIL because some schools did it while others refused. It’s no longer cheating because everyone can do it.

And for the one millionth time, no one is supporting this. You simply can’t prevent it because of the sensitive nature of injuries. If you can’t see how having a panel of NCAA analysts judging these subjective situations, plus players forced to decide their own health in a matter of seconds while laying on a field mid game, would be disastrous then we’ll just leave it there and call it a day on this subject.

 

[oxrageous]

We're talking about in-game, on-the-field cheating here. Don't move the goal posts.

There are things you can do that could serve as a deterrent. That's all I'm saying. Just throwing our hands up while that prick Kiffin does it over and over again isn't a solution. These repeat offender coaches need to be called out nationally on this. Make them think twice about doing it next time.

 

[ThreatMatrix]

Making rules that will result in unintended consequences is always the way to go.

 

[soflagator]

We're talking about in-game, on-the-field cheating here. Don't move the goal posts.

There are things you can do that could serve as a deterrent. That's all I'm saying. Just throwing our hands up while that prick Kiffin does it over and over again isn't a solution. These repeat offender coaches need to be called out nationally on this. Make them think twice about doing it next time.

But every solution offered, including by those within the NCAA tasked with this over a multi-year period, have immediate and massive holes shot through them.

My goodness. Let’s put asides the fact that you’re on Crete’s side in all this, which should be sobering in itself. But one of his arguments is that if a player goes down and requires a timeout, it’s automatically so bad that they could never return, and worse yet, even if they managed to man up and grit through the pain, it’s “sorry, we had to call a timeout, soooo”.

That’s the football you want. Literally, that’s the suggestion.

I haven’t moved a single goal post from day one. I don’t like the strategy. But you can't stop it because you can’t pretend to know when someone is really hurt and when they’re not. If anything, you’re the one moving goal posts since now you’re talking about doing something in-game, despite the fact that the NCAA itself clearly says there’s no way to do that given the liability, in a quote you yourself initially quoted almost exactly one week ago as some sort of evidence that this is finally being addressed.

The only thing that can be done is what the NCAA has proposed and with which you and few others agree. A bunch of nerd interns in a room at the NCAA offices each week determining who gets penalties, fines and possibly suspensions for what they view as not so serious injuries, while excusing those who they deem to have really needed that timeout break.

Well why didn’t you say so from the beginning. I had no idea. That definitely sounds like a can’t miss idea with no unforeseen repercussions.

 

[soflagator]

Just for a quick example, Trask never finishes the Aub game in 2019 under those rules. Pretty sure neither Nattiel nor Bell finish ‘86 Aub either. Youngblood doesn’t have the SB story. Percy takes a total of 9 snaps in his UF career. Just off the top of my head.

But oh well, what’s most important is that we cater to a handful of guys who have no better strategy than to hope you aren’t set or still have a DB running on when they snap it. All that matters.

 

[CGgater]

Two points:

1. So much of officiating is subjective. What is holding? What is pass interference? Lots of gray area that creates inconsistency in officiating.

2. I think cheating should be painful.

Conclusion - If in the official’s subjective opinion, a player is faking an injury, the head referee will walk over to the head coach and punch him in the gut. Second offense merits two punches, and so on… Failure to take the penalty like a man results in ejection.

If kiffy get more penalties than the average coach, so be it.

 

[soflagator]

Two points:

1. So much of officiating is subjective. What is holding? What is pass interference? Lots of gray area that creates inconsistency in officiating.

2. I think cheating should be painful.

Conclusion - If in the official’s subjective opinion, a player is faking an injury, the head referee will walk over to the head coach and punch him in the gut. Second offense merits two punches, and so on… Failure to take the penalty like a man results in ejection.

If kiffy get more penalties than the average coach, so be it.

Couple of points. While they are subjective and that they may or may not be called, holding is a physical act as is pass interference. It’s debatable as to whether or not it gets called. But no one has ever said, we think he “intended” to interfere or hold. That’s what would be required here. It’s about looking for intent. The closest comparison would be calling a pick/rub play. Even then there’s generally physical evidence that an infraction was committed.

But on that note, fans, players and coaches are usually ok as long as there is balance in how the rules are applied. So if officials are “letting them play” then it’s fine. It’s only when one team gets called while the other isn’t. That isn’t the case here. Both teams can employ the strategy which kills the notion of cheating.

Ultimately it’s moot. The rule clearly states that they can’t do anything in game. It’s impossible. The new suggestion is a review board after the fact which is what I originally responded to from Ox. I don’t have any confidence in that going well. And even if it involves fines, is it worth it to potentially win a conference or national title? Of course. So I don’t even see it as a deterrent. As I’ve said, it will simply force teams to be better actors.

Ftr, I’m still good with Kiffin getting punched at any time.

 

[Concrete Helmet]

You’re right. No one ever has cramps. Ever. Trask didn’t go down and look like a season ending disaster in 2019 only to return a series late

If they're hurt, they're hurt....was Trask's injury in the last 2 minutes of the half or end of the game???????????

 

[soflagator]

If they're hurt, they're hurt....was Trask's injury in the last 2 minutes of the half or end of the game???????????

You didn’t specify the last 2 minutes above, but ok. In any event, there are dozens of cases probably in just about every game where players are legitimately hurt and need to get some attention on the sidelines. They shouldn’t be forced to sit out some extra period of time as a result. Trask rightly returned to the field to a roaring applause and led UF to a win. The mere suggestion that it had happened a few minutes earlier or later, he doesn’t get that opportunity is insane.

Your idea is dumb. Let’s end it there.