Treon Harris suspended indefinitely - Accuser drops complaint

[Gator Fever]

There is often no evidence of "forced sex" when sexual assault occurs. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

If the girl comes forward pretty quick instead of waiting a long time there is if it was standard sex but I think I read this girl waited quite a bit to come forward. I think it would be great evidence myself that an encounter was most likely consensual if that was the case. I doubt too many girls are worked up if they are being forcefully raped. I just have a problem without evidence like that when its just a he said she said situation because a few do lie for whatever reason even though the vast majority don't.

 

[alcoholica]

If the girl comes forward pretty quick instead of waiting a long time there is if it was standard sex but I think I read this girl waited quite a bit to come forward. I think it would be great evidence myself that an encounter was most likely consensual if that was the case. I doubt too many girls are worked up if they are being forcefully raped. I just have a problem without evidence like that when its just a he said she said situation because a few do lie for whatever reason even though the vast majority don't.

The issues I have with the timeline is that the following scenario seems plausible.

Treon sleeps with girl #1 on Sat Night/Sun Morning, and everything is good. Girl #1 sees Treon with girl #2 Sunday night. Girl #1 gets extremely jealous and files a report at 1AM!

Not saying that's what happened, but coming forward immediately (and not in the middle of the night) would lend more credibility to the accuser. Also, as quoted above, more evidence would be available to support. The timing just seems very awkward.

Again, if he did it, kick him out and prosecute.

 

[dubster1]

The issues I have with the timeline is that the following scenario seems plausible.

Treon sleeps with girl #1 on Sat Night/Sun Morning, and everything is good. Girl #1 sees Treon with girl #2 Sunday night. Girl #1 gets extremely jealous and files a report at 1AM!

Not saying that's what happened, but coming forward immediately (and not in the middle of the night) would lend more credibility to the accuser. Also, as quoted above, more evidence would be available to support. The timing just seems very awkward.

Again, if he did it, kick him out and prosecute.

agreed, well said!

 

[Jenny On The Railroad]

I must admit I find your passivity in this instance quite the double standard when compared to your viament attacks against the rapest out west.

I'm not passive. There are 2 issues, one is rape and how the institution and community handle it. The other is the issue of suspensions as a policy prior to completion of investigations and charges -on any arrest or accusation -in comparison to what are supposed to be american principles of justice.

I agreed with soflagator's point.about the latter. I think he had a point.

There is a huge difference between the 2 cases in how they are handled and then handled in the face of overwhelming evidence. This case is fresh. We dont yet know about evidence. and we don't know about harris's past history either, while we do have info on jameis's character and lprevioua need for FSU cover up.

UF, UPD, GPD ARE investigating. They ARE taking the rape accusation seriously. They ARE starting a titxle IX investigation. They ARE doing what they should. They are treating a rape accusation seriously. The school is also. My contention about suspensions is not specific to this case. UF IS following its policy about suspending athletes. I just question the policy, and as I said, it is something I have thought about before. Now, I don't know if Titile IX mandates suspensions also- it might.

In contrast, the TPD ignored the victim accuser ( I call her the victim because there was considerable evidence and confirmation that she was raped and winston's DNA was eventually identified, plus she identified him. I am not saying the woman in this case is lying at all. So far no info public, unlike with winston. case after it had sat nearly a year. The winston case was stonewlled and evidence not collected, evidence ignored, med records left out of reports, rape drug tests not done, lab specimens compromised etc. UF and community handling this totally opposite of tally fsul.

Anyway, going on.
in winston's case, the TPD ignored the victim', refused to do basic investigation, went behind her back to the FSU UAA, neglected to notify the police chilef while calling the city commisioner- which Tallahssaaee DEmocrat wrote was totally against TD protocol as police chief was to be notified of incidents involving athletes TPD heavily investigated the victim, and refused to investigte winston, until sometime in Aug 2013 when FDLE would not tolerate anymore their inaction on acting on FDLE mandate to get a semen sample from Winston.

The SAO prior to its obstruction, came out in its first presser and Meggs actually said in print that their job was to determine WHO was most IMPORTANT, WHO had the MOST TO LOSE !!!. This was in the Tally democrat, and edited out the next day in a reprint on ESPN. A month later, when I checked the tallahassee.com archives, it, unlike the other materials in the archives, had been disappeared, and replaced by a drawn in cartoon dialogue type balloon with a sentence about possible timing of a conclusion to SAO investigation.

The school did not do its job. No title IX investigation, then with feds breathing down their neck, did a mock few hour one excluding the victim right after the BCSCG. You know how FSU handled it. FSU did not publicly treat it seriously. They already had a history of Wnston's legal encounters. When the got a 2nd sexual asaault/incident type report they continued to play him although they did start slowly the process of looking into starting a title IX proceeding ( last fall- but didn't have anything until JAn or early Feb)

You may interpret my response as passive, but it is not. I just have a particular sense of citizen rights and the stated principles of operation of justice system. Here the latter is working. In Tally, even at the governor level, it was missing. (Gov. inappropriately I thought, refused to investigate TPD, SAO PRIOR to a request being written with reasons enumerated. How can one say the investigation was ethical without even pretending to look at the points of objection?) If UF or GPD were doing what happened in Tally, and it was 10 months later, brought out by a disgusted employee leak to TMZ, and all that evidence of denial of due process, you would be hearing the same thing from me here.

 

[Gator Fever]

Some are saying according to the police crime log she didn't report this until 22 hours after it supposedly happened.

 

[ATXGator]

Heck your latest thread title is what if this happens

It's one thing to speculate about what happens in regards to the football team... it's another to start speculating that the accuser timed this to get him in trouble, etc, etc...

To me rape isn't something to joke about and I don't think it is right to put blame on either person until facts are known. There are enough issues with rape not getting reported as it is and speculation like this only makes it harder for women to report it. So I think it is a more sensative issue than who will start at QB.

 

[Scott512]

After all the crap that went on in Tally the past 11 months with Winston and alleged rape tainting FSU, their 2013 championship football team the Tallahassee PD and the city of Tallahassee the Gator Nation now faces the same thing thanks to Treon Harris? Are you kidding me? What a nightmare.

Harris cannot play until if and when this is resolved in his favor. If it's not resolved in his favor he needs to go.

Listen Gator fans trashed Brantley badly for his play and Driskel too for that matter. But nothing ever indicated they were anything but good kids. This news on Harris is disturbing on many levels. I wonder what Foley and the UF braintrust thinks. I bet they can't believe it either. I mean you don't have to have a college QB who is a virgin do you?


Treon has not been convicted of anything but for us to be put through this the way Nole fans have been for nearly a year is mind blowing. Sad too.

 

[GatorFin]

http://www.alligator.org/sports/football/article_1ba13f26-4d78-11e4-90aa-279b112ccfab.html

I wonder if that is just rumor bs below or if that is coming from the initial police report some coaches/administrators etc. may have been shown by the police. If that is how it went down they should have physical evidence that it was forced sex when they do those tests.


"UPDATE: A source close to the team who is not an eyewitness says they learned Harris is being accused of forcing a female victim into her residence hall at the Springs Residential Complex then allegedly sexually assaulting her in the room in the early hours Sunday Oct. 5. The source also said although the victim has a roommate, a bathroom separates rooms in suites in the complex, and it is not uncommon to be unable to hear what is going on in the other room. It is unknown whether the roommate was in the residence hall at the time of the incident."

I have a REALLY hard time believing it was a random victim that he pushed into a room and raped. Who wouldn't contact the police immediately after a person forced themselves on you and then left? The phone call would have gone out the second she rushed into her roommates room for help.

 

[Gator Fever]

Based on what I have heard so far, there are two likely scenarios.

1) Jealous girlfriend flips out because he is cheating her
2) Liquored up entitled jock decides to take what is his, regardless of the girls wishes.

My question is was Treon dating the girl that says he raped her? Or was it their first encounter? I'm not saying that someone cannot rape their girlfriend, but it would add a lot of context to the story.

Crazy stuff - I know people usually won't make this stuff up but it has happened before because the girl was really pissed for whatever reason. If this does turn out to be someone he had relations with before I guess there is a slim chance he didn't actually rape her. I have a feeling since she waited so long to come forward (if that 22 hour report is true) that we might have another he said she said here with no other solid evidence to prove things one way or another.

 

[Scott512]

Did Harris not learn from the disgrace(s) Winston has put FSU through in the past 11 months? I guess not. Wow. Just freaking ridiculous UF has to put up with this crap. Maybe if Treon was starting from day 1 this wouldn't have happened? Maybe he had too much time on his hands?


The braintrust better think of cleaning house with the football team yes that means will. Maybe Foley too. Certainly Will. This drama and whether Treon gets convicted or not has tainted the football program, athletic department and the Univeristy of Florida. We all know most college kids want to have sex but sometimes it's best to just control yourself and say study more film or in your classes. No?

 

[PastyStoole]

It's completely irresponsible and even malicious for people to say that 22 hours to report a rape is "fishy." That's likely an average. In fact, most rape victims don't report their attacks at all. The first call a woman typically makes in rape cases is not to the police, it's usually to a girlfriend and it's not right away. Here's why:

Rape victims typically know their attacker, which many are saying is the case here. The woman must ponder 1) Do they take an action that can lead to their friend or acquaintance spending years behind bars? 2) Is it worth suffering through the inevitable humiliation, shaming and disgrace associated with a trial? (In this case it would be much worse, as it is so high-profile). Women typically report that going through a prolonged legal process, the insensitivity of people in the community who accuse the victim of "fishy" behavior, the cross examination by sleazy defense attorneys etc.., is worse than the rape itself. 3) Given the fact that only 2% of all rapes actually end up with the attacker spending ANY time in jail, is it really worth going through the suffering that nearly all rape victims go through during the legal process? 4)Am I responsible for what just happened to me? How could this happen to me?

The woman must deal with these questions while she is dealing with the stress and aftermath of the act of rape itself. Additionally, she may be suffering from Rape Trauma Syndrome which can lead a woman to be hysterical, paralyzed by anxiety, disoriented, or having an acute sensitivity to being around other people (which is another factor in the time it takes to report a rape, if at all). Usually a woman must be talked into reporting a rape by one or more people.

Again, false reports of rape are extremely rare. Those who are trying to smear the girl by claiming the time frame of reporting is "fishy" need to consider the "fishiness" of the rumors they are intentionally spreading.

 

[Gator Fever]

I agree on the stress stuff but that can work both ways. I think most cases of false accusation the false accuser is angered about something and waits a while to finally make the charge. I would think in orientation they stress to female students now that they need to report a rape case right away because of evidence concerns.

 

[ATXGator]

Did Harris not learn from the disgrace(s) Winston has put FSU through in the past 11 months? I guess not. Wow. Just freaking ridiculous UF has to put up with this crap. Maybe if Treon was starting from day 1 this wouldn't have happened? Maybe he had too much time on his hands?


The braintrust better think of cleaning house with the football team yes that means will. Maybe Foley too. Certainly Will. This drama and whether Treon gets convicted or not has tainted the football program, athletic department and the Univeristy of Florida. We all know most college kids want to have sex but sometimes it's best to just control yourself and say study more film or in your classes. No?

We don't know if he did this or not. So as far as him learning from the disgrace... we will have to wait and see what actually comes out.

I don't think this has tainted the University at all. In fact, I have read a number of different articles praising UF and the way UF has handled this. I think UF is coming out of this looking OK. It stinks to have a player possibly make a bad decision if that is what happened, but they are handling it with a sense or urgency and seriousness that shows that UF is serious about sexual assault.

 

[Gator Fever]

I am not throwing Harris under the bus until I hear from the authorities or the police report that there is more evidence than just he said she said that it was not consensual.

 

[Scott512]

Football players are in a unique position where girls are throwing themselves at them. It is a matter of WHO they want to have sex with, not IF they can convince someone to have sex with them. When I was at Florida, I used to tutor some of these athletes and literally they had multiple girls waiting for them, competing for their attention. It reminded me of what happens to rock stars after a concert. Most people are trying to get laid at college, but football players don't have to make the normal effort. I hope this does not end in a he said she said type of deal. I would rather that it is definitively concluded one way or the other.

Hey you are right and I know it. I just wish the guys had more self control but I understand why they don't. Chicks galore is enticing to young guys who are spoiled and used to getting what they want.

And yes one way or the other I want a result too not be left with she said / he said but we may end up with that like FSU did.

 

[alcoholica]

It's completely irresponsible and even malicious for people to say that 22 hours to report a rape is "fishy." That's likely an average. In fact, most rape victims don't report their attacks at all. The first call a woman typically makes in rape cases is not to the police, it's usually to a girlfriend and it's not right away. Here's why:

Rape victims typically know their attacker, which many are saying is the case here. The woman must ponder 1) Do they take an action that can lead to their friend or acquaintance spending years behind bars? 2) Is it worth suffering through the inevitable humiliation, shaming and disgrace associated with a trial? (In this case it would be much worse, as it is so high-profile). Women typically report that going through a prolonged legal process, the insensitivity of people in the community who accuse the victim of "fishy" behavior, the cross examination by sleazy defense attorneys etc.., is worse than the rape itself. 3) Given the fact that only 2% of all rapes actually end up with the attacker spending ANY time in jail, is it really worth going through the suffering that nearly all rape victims go through during the legal process? 4)Am I responsible for what just happened to me? How could this happen to me?

The woman must deal with these questions while she is dealing with the stress and aftermath of the act of rape itself. Additionally, she may be suffering from Rape Trauma Syndrome which can lead a woman to be hysterical, paralyzed by anxiety, disoriented, or having an acute sensitivity to being around other people (which is another factor in the time it takes to report a rape, if at all). Usually a woman must be talked into reporting a rape by one or more people.

Again, false reports of rape are extremely rare. Those who are trying to smear the girl by claiming the time frame of reporting is "fishy" need to consider the "fishiness" of the rumors they are intentionally spreading.

It's not the 22hrs that people are finding fishy, it's the 1am that people don't understand. It's not that people are calling her a slut (your original term), it's that they don't understand some of her actions.

And yes, people are spreading rumors. Technically, until he is proven guilty this entire accusation is a rumor.

 

[Gator Fever]

http://www.wuft.org/news/2014/10/06/uf-statement-qb-harris-accused-of-sexual-assault/

"Due to legal and privacy requirements, there are limitations as to what the university can say publicly about a pending matter such as this. In these types of serious situations, Student Affairs initiates the Student Conduct Code process. Often, a student may be suspended on an interim basis, which means he or she is banned from campus and all campus activities, pending the outcome of the conduct process."

I read an article where they were discussing a few of these cases at other campuses where students swear they were falsely accused and how they kicked them out of school with no evidence in the police investigation except the word of the accuser basically. The article implied the person had hardly any rights at these hearings and they were basically kangaroo courts in reality. One case was a guy that got accused about a day after having sex with the girl of rape and it turned out the girl didn't report the story until her boyfriend was tipped off she slept with the guy and confronted her and then hours later she was crying it was rape and the school still kicked him out of school with no other evidence the article claimed.