What should Malik Davis have done?

[oxrageous]

I think it's sad we're having this moronic argument when we should have beaten a team like Vandy by 5 scores.

NO ONE is right or wrong in this thread. EITHER SCENARIO would have resulted in a win.

 

[GatorInGeorgia]

I think it's sad we're having this moronic argument when we should have beaten a team like Vandy by 5 scores.

NO ONE is right or wrong in this thread. EITHER SCENARIO would have resulted in a win.

By my simple math, beating them by 2 scores is closer to your 5 score threshold than taking a knee at the one and beating them by 1 score (assuming we don't fcvk something up in V formation...big if).

 

[GatorInGeorgia]

I can see the first time that it does happen, happening to us in our current play not to lose mentality. I see prevent defenses lose games all the time, but statistically speaking, it shouldn't.

video-n-m-team-loses-after-opponent-steals-snap-on-victory-formation-play-in-final-seconds

I love the link. And who would've thought that this has happened when somebody swore that it had NEVER happened!

 

[alcoholica]

Yes, because once in the victory formation, the shotgun snap/center qb exchange becomes infallible, because it is a victory formation after all. With 1:40, while the other team has three timeouts.

Yeah, ok.

Here's the video. It clearly shows Vandy has zero timeouts. Point deduction for not knowing what the fcck you're arguing about.

 

[Zambo]

Its not my fault that mental midgets like GatorinGeorgia and Donktaculous can't grasp the simple fact that out of ALL the V form snaps that have taken place over the years, countless more instances than hail marys attempted, that the number of fumbles is practically zero. The number of times a team has scored on a hail mary or a quick drive is FAR more than zero.

Nor are these mental midgets capable of watching the video that I posted which clearly explains the logic behind the play as explained by Andy Reid, Michael Westbrook and the announcers. In fact, they even made it an educational type video to explain to the average paste-eating moron why it makes more sense to do what Westbrook did than to score in that particular situation.

And yet, rather than admit that it actually makes tactical sense, y'all will just keep acting like a scorned woman about the whole issue, despite the fact that nobody actually gives a **** that he didn't take a knee.

 

[Zambo]

Here's the video. It clearly shows Vandy has zero timeouts. Point deduction for not knowing what the fcck you're arguing about.

He is all out of points. He is in negative territory. Real life, math, and donkey rarely intersect.

 

[alcoholica]

Here is a State Semifinal game of two unbeaten Texas HS teams. Both were undefeated at the time. Absolutely insane finish. Worth a watch no matter what side you take on this topic.

 

[T REX]

11 pages?

 

[GatorInGeorgia]

Love ya 78 though I'm sorry but you simply don't understand what is being asked if this is your answer. The reason you fall down is so you don't have to kick off. It has nothing to do with running up the score. In fact if you're up by 40 you simply waltz into the endzone and rub their faces in it. There wasn't enough time on the clock for Vandy to ever touch the ball again if he goes down in bounds.

This has literally NOTHING to so with being aggressive or being a pussy or any of that emotional BS. It simply has to do with maximizing the odds of winning the game. The fact is that if he stops short of the endzone, Vandy never touches the ball again and we walk out of there as winners with one about a million to one shot of some crazy thing happening otherwise. Basically it would have to be something that has never happened before in the history of the game which is to fumble the ball while in the victory formation on the opponent's one yard line and have them score a TD. Its never happened. Kick off to them and they can return the kick or get a quick score, perhaps recover an onsides and have a chance to tie the game. It is still a long shot. But not a million to one like just taking a knee.

Now that the odds comparison is out of the way, nobody including me is mad that he scored. Just imagine if you will though that he is heading to the endzone and all of a sudden stops short like Westbrook did for the Eagles a few years back. Nobody called Westbrook a pussy, he was roundly praised for being extremely smart and unselfish. And that is exactly what people would be saying about Davis right now if he had done the same thing. As it is, it was a great play and our guy got a touchdown and we won the game so really it doesn't matter. In fact if I had to vote I'd say just score because its fun and motivating. But you are taking a chance. Hell, even if its not the game on the line, there is a chance while Vandy has the ball that one of our guys gets injured or something. But whatever, it was a fun win and I'll take it any day.

Standing by for my dislikes. Lets go.

I love (I'm being sarcastic BTW) how you look at best case results for your position and worst case results for the opposing position and use that as proof that you're correct. Confirmation bias maybe? What you fail to grasp is that if something goes wrong with the V snap, which has happened before as already demonstrated, is that we're giving Vandy A CHANCE to hit a miracle, a HAIL MARY from their own one or two yard line. The fact that Troy didn't convert their opportunity has no bearing on the odds. If we score, Vandy has a chance to hit 3 miracles...1) a kickoff return or a Hail Mary for a quick TD, 2) an onside kick recovered and 3) a second Hail Mary or some other quick TD.

Now tell us, which one of those 2 scenarios is more probable and has better odds of occurring. The fact that you seem to think it's more likely to recover an onside kick in between 2 TDs with 1 minute 38 seconds remaining speaks to your stupidity.

 

[Zambo]

Good Lord moron why would Vandy have to throw a Hail Mary from their 1 yard line with a minute and a half left on the clock?

 

[Zambo]

BTW if you simply google success rate for hail mary, onside kick, etc you'll see that success on these type plays is FAR from a miracle. Literally a quarter of onside kicks are successful. Roughly 10% of hail marys are successful. Yes, when you string them together the odds get long. There is no way on earth though that you can claim the odds of a fumbled snap in the V form that gets recovered by the other team even REMOTELY approaches those odds.

And furthermore, you don't have to go hail mary, onside, hail mary to come back in that situation. You can get a decent kick return, run a few plays to score, get an onside kick, and run a few more plays to score. None of which is possible if you are simply competent enough to snap the ball twice without fumbling.

If he had gone down, they would have spotted the ball and started the play clock with about 1:35 left. We would have snapped it with about 1:10 left and taken a knee. They would have taken 5-10 seconds to respot the ball and we would have snapped it the second time with about 30 seconds left in the game. We most likely would not have to snap it a third time. There is simply no way that giving them the ball back, even down 2 scores instead of just one, gives us better odds to win the game. It just doesn't.

 

[t-gator]

Because plenty here are saying Mac is overly conservative with the "take a knee" approach. He went for it on 4th down multiple times yesterday, but Mac's a conservative loser.

BTW - if we lost another LB or DT to injury in vandy's desperation drive, the same dumpers would crush Mac for putting in an undisciplined RB who lacks situational awareness. Stinkin' freshman should know better... yada yada...

I don't think you understand why we call mac conservative. It's not the run pass ratio or the guts to go for it on 4th. It's the constant dinking and dunking and all the damn bubble screens. It's freakin miserable to watch. How about a real passing game?

 

[GatorInGeorgia]

Good Lord moron why would Vandy have to throw a Hail Mary from their 1 yard line with a minute and a half left on the clock?

All the more reason not to take a knee. If the V formation snap is botched and Vandy recovers, they have about 1:30 to drive down the field and tie the game up. Thanks for helping make my point jack azz!

 

[alcoholica]

I think if you're playing to win, you drop down and go to the victory formation.

There are other things to consider as well. We went up 14, not 10. We have to consider recruiting and they extra points and yardage that adds up at the end of the season. There are also negative consequences that could occur from scoring, such as injuries, while having 10 players out.

It's a tough call, and really a moot point. But there is an opportunity to coach him and others up about situational awareness. I think the best case scenario happened. We won with no further injuries while popping some more offense. But, if that is FSU or UGA, stop and drop and kill the clock.

I agree with who brought up the Perine miscue. That was a far more egregious offense.

 

[Zambo]

All the more reason not to take a knee. If the V formation snap is botched and Vandy recovers, they have about 1:30 to drive down the field and tie the game up. Thanks for helping make my point jack azz!

You really are dumber than dirt. I shudder to think of what life must be like for you.

The second Davis made the line to gain on the play, we were going to win either way unless he fumbled the ball before going down. V form, score and play D, whatever. The game was over. Anybody who thinks that taking a knee there was increasing the odds we lose the game really isn't thinking clearly. One set of odds though that definitely increase by continuing to play football instead of taking a knee is injury. We lose a couple players every game on average. With around 150 or so plays in a game (including kicks) that is more than negligible odds of losing a player unnecessarily.

Here is a simple question for you: Was Andy Reid wrong to instruct Westbrook to take a knee in that game I linked?

 

[AugustaGator]

I'm not going back and reading this whole embarrassment of a thread, but I see there's actually 5 votes for "going down". I'm assuming we've got 5 posters that English isn't their first language or either they didn't understand the question because there's zero ****ing reasons to not score there. You always go up by 2 scores.

They were all women.

 

[GatorInGeorgia]

Think of it this way: If Davis had gotten tackled after making the line to gain, we would have a first down and gone into the victory formation and taken a knee on first down with just over a minute to play. After they reset the ball, we would have taken the 2nd down snap with around 30 seconds to play. There would have been no 3rd down snap. We would have walked off the field. instead, Vandy had the ball with 1:30 remaining and more than a zero percent chance to tie to the game. And certainly much more than a zero percent chance of one of our defenders suffering an injury. Either way the likelihood of them winning was uber-low. However, ....IF Davis had shocked everybody and gone down at the 1, would anybody here actually say he was a pussy dumbass? I wouldn't. Nobody would.

You're incorrectly assuming that the snap is guaranteed to go off without a hitch rather than being muffed and recovered by Vandy. Your position isn't a forgone conclusion.

 

[Zambo]

You're incorrectly assuming that the snap is guaranteed to go off without a hitch rather than being muffed and recovered by Vandy. Your position isn't a forgone conclusion.

Just admit it, you are so flustered right now you'll say damn near anything. I never said it was impossible. I said it is so improbable that it makes more sense than the other course of action.

 

[Theologator]

You really are dumber than dirt. I shudder to think of what life must be like for you.

The second Davis made the line to gain on the play, we were going to win either way unless he fumbled the ball before going down. V form, score and play D, whatever. The game was over. Anybody who thinks that taking a knee there was increasing the odds we lose the game really isn't thinking clearly. One set of odds though that definitely increase by continuing to play football instead of taking a knee is injury. We lose a couple players every game on average. With around 150 or so plays in a game (including kicks) that is more than negligible odds of losing a player unnecessarily.

Here is a simple question for you: Was Andy Reid wrong to instruct Westbrook to take a knee in that game I linked?

And how deeply to the Falcons regret not taking a knee a few times at the end of the last Super Bowl? Chewing clock and erasing opportunity are wise strategies late.

Vandy’s QB is no Brady but he was able to carve our secondary up on several plays. I would not have wanted them with the ball and 1:30 to tie or win on a 2-point conversion.

And I agree that the possibility of Vandy scoring twice was beyond remote. I do think taking the knee was the better option but no big deal in reality.

 

[RocketCityGator]

I have absolutely no problem with him scoring, but in complete and total fairness, if the play is designed for the RB to get the first down and hit the deck, it's understandable that Mac wasn't happy with him not following the play design.

See this is somewhat my thought. I don't agree with Mac's call to fall down but I do believe that the player should do as his coaches tell him.