Aaron Hernandez....severe CTE diagnosis

divits

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Whether somebody like Hernandez or Manson should be forgiven is totally and completely irrelevant. If a soldier gets PTSD and goes on an murder spree doesn't mean he gets automatically forgiven. The point is to keep learning about what causes this kind of behavior in an attempt to prevent it in the future. Any comment that simply blows off the possibility that brain damage can help cause such behavioral issues is just posturing. I think the buzzword for it these days is value projecting or something like that
Here's the thing, Hernandez didn't just go apesh!t crazy killing people. This wasn't some guy who couldn't control himself because brain damage made him do something totally out of character. He was a calculating, conniving, stone cold killer. He did it for the same "reasons" other dumbsh!t punks without brain damage do it. He was in a gang dating back to HS. He planned it. He threatened and shot people who might expose it. He lied and killed people to cover it up. Any attempt to excuse him for it because of his dad dying or getting hit in the head is total bull$h!t.
 
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AugustaGator

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Percentages? Glad you raised that point.

* His father, whom he worshipped, died after hernia surgery when Hernandez was 16.
* The kid never had time to prepare himself for the loss.
* Absent an authority figure in his life, he developed a defiance to authority.
* At 17, under the influence, busted a guy's eardrum in a restaurant.
* One example of his ability to example to control his emotions.
* Five months later, five gunshots fired into a car in Gainesville.
* Coincidence?
* Whether it occurred before or during CTE, we are left with conjecture.

Enough gray area for y'all?
Thank you for proving my point. Not Tramatic Brain Injury. Reaction to environmental factors. Nurture. Not nature.
 

deuce

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I have opinions but never claim to know anything for sure, like some do. AH seemed to be seriously Fked up. He was arrested, tried and convicted...... He got what he earned in the end.
 

CapitalGator02

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So cap, you don't think its possible that a guy who commits suicide or a woman who drowns her kids or a person that goes ape **** and starts shooting people might actually have a problem with the old noodle? I mean, its nothing more than a coincidence that someone who makes completely irrational decisions also has strong evidence of brain injury? If someone had chest pain and an examination showed they had a damaged valve, would you just tell them to suck it up and stop making excuses?
Of course there is a massive issue with "the old noodle" in the scenarios that you described. But the issue that I am running into with CTE is that people are pointing to brain trauma as the singular factor for murder or suicide or erratic behavior. Could CTE be a contributing factor in one's decision to commit suicide or murder? No question, but there are a number of other stimuli that shape our behavior, including environment and life experiences. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who have never set foot on a football field or experienced brain trauma, yet they've committed suicide or murder.
 

Okeechobee Joe

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Excuse me for the long explanation, but this topic just got me to thinking.

CTE didn't cause Aaron Hernandez to murder. Most football players with CTE are not murderers. And most murderers don't have CTE from playing football. Because he was a murderer and was found to have chronic traumatic injuries to his brain doesn't mean that the CTE was causal, but only co-existant. The reason Hernandez was a sociopath is complex but it is a mixture of brain structure, genetics , and environment. It is a mixture of all of these things and obviously not in equal parts. That is a simplified explanation but it has some basis in neuroscience. CTE could have altered his brain structure, but it would not have altered his genetic make-up, the environment he was raised in, or even the basic brain structure he was born with.

I am not downplaying the role of traumatic brain injuries to the brain. We all know that these injuries have an effect on the brain and can cause early onset dementia, problems with balance, judgment and other neurological problems. But some of these dementia cases with CTE would have turned out to be dementia anyway. The CTE might have just caused it occur earlier than it would have "naturally". Can CTE cause someone to murder? Maybe in the individual with a certain genetic make-up. But it is obvious that CTE doesn't cause most people with it to murder other people. It a very small subset of people it might be a tipping point. Maybe. Of course, if your the NFL pushing an agenda, or you're a lawyer trying to get your client off a murder charge, then you are going to come out with the CTE defense.

Aaron Hernandez was programmed to be a sociopath at birth due to his genetics. Perhaps. If he was raised in a different environment would that have allowed him to turn out differently? Maybe. Maybe not. Sometimes environment can overcome genetics but it's a hard fight, a tough row to hoe.

I never liked Aaron Hernandez. I never liked him before I found out who he really was. He was a great football player. But he always seemed like a "thug" to me. He was one tough dude. We all condemn what he did. But his life was partly the "luck of the draw" or what the cards dealt him. I am not saying that we are just automatons or that there is no such thing as a morality because everything is pre-determined. Some people have come out of very poor social situations and have turned out to be fine upstanding citizens. These people may have had poor social situations, but their genetic make-up was o.k. or even good. They had pretty good brains. But if you look at the brains and genetics of murderers you will see people who lie on the bad side of the bell curve. Aaron Hernandez had all the ingredients -- the genetics to be programmed a sociopath, the early loss of his father, perhaps some macroscopic or microscopic structural anomalies the brain he was born with. But he was also genetically programmed to be an athlete, a football player. He had the right environment to accomplish that with his youth and high school coaches. He put in the work it took to become an SEC and NFL football player. If you don't have the right genetics then no matter how hard you work or even if your youth coach was actually Pop Warner you are not going to become even a high school football player.

If you have success in your life I am sure it was due to some hard work on your part. Pat yourself on the back. And you might have been fortunate to have been raised in a good home with good parents. But you were also fortunate to be born with o.k. or even good DNA. It was like Obama said: "You didn't build that." My answer is "Yes, I did" and "Yes, I didn't".
 

Zambo

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Ferchrissakes nobody is "excusing" anything. But doesn't it make you wonder why the vast majority of mothers have the urge to nurture their children while some small percentage have an urge to kill their children? When we chalk it up to just being a dick, it's no different than when we don't understand where rain comes from so we make up stuff about how it's sent down from heaven by God. It's not natural for people to behave that way. If you don't want to understand why the computer that controls the body works like it does sometimes, that's fine. Lots of folks don't care how things work. But it doesn't mean that those who question the science behind it don't want guys like Hernandez locked up. Whether it's within his control or not, guys like that are a danger and not fit for society. But perhaps by learning about it you can predict and control or avert this kind of thing. I suppose that would be terrible. Only problem is that, absent a pre-crime unit, the only way guys like Hernandez get locked up is after they kill.
 

Swamp Donkey

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Yeah, we know. You are a science guy, zambo.
 
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divits

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Ferchrissakes nobody is "excusing" anything. But doesn't it make you wonder why the vast majority of mothers have the urge to nurture their children while some small percentage have an urge to kill their children? When we chalk it up to just being a dick, it's no different than when we don't understand where rain comes from so we make up stuff about how it's sent down from heaven by God. It's not natural for people to behave that way. If you don't want to understand why the computer that controls the body works like it does sometimes, that's fine. Lots of folks don't care how things work. But it doesn't mean that those who question the science behind it don't want guys like Hernandez locked up. Whether it's within his control or not, guys like that are a danger and not fit for society. But perhaps by learning about it you can predict and control or avert this kind of thing. I suppose that would be terrible. Only problem is that, absent a pre-crime unit, the only way guys like Hernandez get locked up is after they kill.
I don't think you're excusing it and I'm not saying this is you, but many people who can't fathom why someone would do certain things go looking for excuses for abhorrent behavior. The easy excuse is something like brain damage or the trauma of losing a loved one. It allows some to feel more comfortable in their own mind to believe that there are no inherently bad people out there, just damaged ones who can't help themselves. It's naive and foolhardy.

I understand wanting to know why people do the bad things they do, specially the psychopaths and sociopaths. I feel for the little kids they were when their minds may have been altered by circumstance. But once they grow up and know right from wrong I lose any sympathy.
 

T REX

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Damn, I was was trying to remove myself from this thread. I did want to look like an AH sympathizer because I certainly am not. There are most definitely "bad people". The condescending BS can stop now. Forget any type of regular discourse. I should have known. Listen, I would have pushed the button on his lethal injection or flipped the flipped the switch on ole sparky. Full disclaimer: Some people are born evil. However, I still wonder if CTE can cause or contribute to violent behavior. I doubt there's any research on it as of yet. I am pretty sure it's been proven that certain brain injuries can cause psychopathy in individuals that WERE NOT psychopaths prior to said injury.
 

divits

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Actually, there is a whole lot about CTE and its effects that remain a question mark. The science is still in it's infancy with no quantifiable evidence of cause and effect.
 

stephenPE

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Actually, there is a whole lot about CTE and its effects that remain a question mark. The science is still in it's infancy with no quantifiable evidence of cause and effect.
Sorta like the cigarette industry?
 

GatorJ

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Aaron Fernandez was also a stage 50 sociopath, so, there's that.

There are two drivers of CTE research;
1) Lawyers to use the presence of CTE as evidence to sue the NFL for negligence
2) The NFL in order to prove that they are doing their best to mitigate further cases of CTE (and to ward off litigation)

Neither the NFL, nor lawyers, give two schits about player safety. Both are only trying to protect their revenue streams.

I think it's hilarious that you called him Aaron Fernandez.
 

CapitalGator02

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I wasn't trying to be a dick...if I was, you would have gotten all kinds of man on the moon jokes.
Neither was I and no, I definitely didn't read article in the OP :) There's a reason why I was never a good test taker, now you know why!
 

78

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Here's the thing, Hernandez didn't just go apesh!t crazy killing people. This wasn't some guy who couldn't control himself because brain damage made him do something totally out of character. He was a calculating, conniving, stone cold killer. He did it for the same "reasons" other dumbsh!t punks without brain damage do it. He was in a gang dating back to HS. He planned it. He threatened and shot people who might expose it. He lied and killed people to cover it up. Any attempt to excuse him for it because of his dad dying or getting hit in the head is total bull$h!t.

He didn't? He killed a guy for spilling a drink on him. That's about as blatant an example of going apeshyt as I can think of. Do you disagree?

Context is again needed. Was Hernandez a bad person? Did he do bad things to other people? Yes and, furthermore, yes. That's not the point of the discussion. The point is he had advanced-stage CTE, the worst case the NFL has seen at his age, and he hadn't played football since 2012, which means it likely began long before the NFL, unless one of you guys can produce shots of his brain from 2010 or 2011 that show the damage.

That, combined with certain life events, lead me to BELIEVE in how things may have unfolded for Hernandez. Again, emphasis on believe, may. Father (and role model) unexpectedly died at a young age, he lost his way. Became rebellious. Turned to drugs and alcohol, which we all know rewires the brain at that age. Played football and got in repeated violent fights in high school. Head trauma? Likely. Came to UF as damaged goods and proceeded to get in deeper trouble. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

A pattern begins to develop.

Nothing occurs in a vacuum, and that includes the sad case of Aaron Hernandez. Even armed with this knowledge, his defense attorneys would have faced an uphill battle, but their chances of defending against a reasonable doubt would have been much better.
 
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CapitalGator02

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That, combined with certain life events, lead me to BELIEVE in how things may have unfolded for Hernandez. Again, emphasis on believe, may. Father (and role model) unexpectedly died at a young age, he lost his way. Became rebellious. Turned to drugs and alcohol, which we all know rewires the brain at that age. Played football and got in repeated violent fights in high school. Head trauma? Likely. Came to UF as damaged goods and proceeded to get in deeper trouble. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
This is the exact point we are all trying to make. CTE is one of many factors that shaped Hern into the person he became. CTE is not the sole factor or cause for his actions.
 

GMDGator

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This is a good thread. Those of us that question the effects of CTE on AHern's behavior certainly are not justifying it... I wonder how early he started taking headshots. It must have been very young, like 5 or 6 to be so advanced...
 

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