Rams/Saints no-call

[Zambo]

Dude, if the right call was made there the game was over. Period

 

[78]

Doug, you are incapable of critical thinking.

 

[soflagator]

It's kind of like the Swindle. We had 7 calls go against us, yet still should have won the game.

Yep. I think that's essentially what doug is saying. If it's an egregious pattern that spoils an entire game(like that '03 game), that's one thing. And if it's on the last play and there's no chance for the team to recover, that also makes it an argument that the call effectively decided the game. But if it's an isolated issue, and there were opportunities on both sides of the play to win the game, then while it's a terrible call, it didn't ultimately decide things.

The other variable here is that while it obviously would've given them a 1st and goal, there is no way to determine exactly what happens next. NO had 10 total drives, not counting the take-a-knee's at the end of the halves. Six of those drives were either 3 and outs or one-first-down drives for minimal yardage, resulting in either a punt, a FG or a turnover. It's not as if they were lighting it up with an unstoppable offense. Assuming automatically that they score a TD there is total speculation. They could've done what they did on at least 3 drives and failed to get in the end zone, forcing the exact same result, or worse yet, cough it up and kill any chance of winning.

You never know what's going to happen next. Wright forces Joey Kent to fumble in '95, on what would probably be ruled an incomplete pass today and could've easily been even without the aid of instant replay. Yet the next play, the vols get a strip-sack on DW and return it for 6. A questionable call can end up going both ways.

Is it likely that they score, sure. But the course of the game does not really support the idea that a correct call would've definitively won the game for them. Still terrible, and I wouldn't be opposed to some serious discipline(or firing) for that entire crew. Again, someone should've thrown the flag.

 

[78]

So of all the non-calls and missed calls in the NFL this is so much worse than those?

In the NFC Championship at that time of the game? Um, yes.

 

[Zambo]

Yep. I think that's essentially what doug is saying. If it's an egregious pattern that spoils an entire game(like that '03 game), that's one thing. And if it's on the last play and there's no chance for the team to recover, that also makes it an argument that the call effectively decided the game. But if it's an isolated issue, and there were opportunities on both sides of the play to win the game, then while it's a terrible call, it didn't ultimately decide things.

The other variable here is that while it obviously would've given them a 1st and goal, there is no way to determine exactly what happens next. NO had 10 total drives, not counting the take-a-knee's at the end of the halves. Six of those drives were either 3 and outs or one-first-down drives for minimal yardage, resulting in either a punt, a FG or a turnover. It's not as if they were lighting it up with an unstoppable offense. Assuming automatically that they score a TD there is total speculation. They could've done what they did on at least 3 drives and failed to get in the end zone, forcing the exact same result, or worse yet, cough it up and kill any chance of winning.

You never know what's going to happen next. Wright forces Joey Kent to fumble in '95, on what would probably be ruled an incomplete pass today and could've easily been even without the aid of instant replay. Yet the next play, the vols get a strip-sack on DW and return it for 6. A questionable call can end up going both ways.

Is it likely that they score, sure. But the course of the game does not really support the idea that a correct call would've definitively won the game for them. Still terrible, and I wouldn't be opposed to some serious discipline(or firing) for that entire crew. Again, someone should've thrown the flag.

Where are you are wrong is that the correct call in that situation effectively ended the game. The rest of your stuff is spot on, but I don’t think it really applies to this instance. This was a call that in and of itself altered the result of the game.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Yep. I think that's essentially what doug is saying. If it's an egregious pattern that spoils an entire game(like that '03 game), that's one thing. And if it's on the last play and there's no chance for the team to recover, that also makes it an argument that the call effectively decided the game. But if it's an isolated issue, and there were opportunities on both sides of the play to win the game, then while it's a terrible call, it didn't ultimately decide things.

The other variable here is that while it obviously would've given them a 1st and goal, there is no way to determine exactly what happens next. NO had 10 total drives, not counting the take-a-knee's at the end of the halves. Six of those drives were either 3 and outs or one-first-down drives for minimal yardage, resulting in either a punt, a FG or a turnover. It's not as if they were lighting it up with an unstoppable offense. Assuming automatically that they score a TD there is total speculation. They could've done what they did on at least 3 drives and failed to get in the end zone, forcing the exact same result, or worse yet, cough it up and kill any chance of winning.

You never know what's going to happen next. Wright forces Joey Kent to fumble in '95, on what would probably be ruled an incomplete pass today and could've easily been even without the aid of instant replay. Yet the next play, the vols get a strip-sack on DW and return it for 6. A questionable call can end up going both ways.

Is it likely that they score, sure. But the course of the game does not really support the idea that a correct call would've definitively won the game for them. Still terrible, and I wouldn't be opposed to some serious discipline(or firing) for that entire crew. Again, someone should've thrown the flag.

The whole crew should be reprimanded at the very least, if not ourright fired.

 

[TheDouglas78]

In the NFC Championship at that time of the game? Um, yes.

They didnt' for a Super Bowl, why would they do it for this?

 

[Zambo]

Pop quiz for you Doug. Just suppose that they made the right call there. What do you think the next four plays would have been? How much time do you think would be left on the clock after those four plays?

 

[78]

They didnt' for a Super Bowl, why would they do it for this?

That's like questioning why you got pulled over for running a red while the car next to you going 20 over the limit got away scot-free. You ran a red. STFU and take it.

The NFL has refused to include officiating in replays. It has a problem. The best time to correct this abyss was yesterday. In other words, it's long overdue.

 

[TheDouglas78]

That's like questioning why you got pulled over for running a red while the car next to you going 20 over the limit got away scot-free. You ran a red. STFU and take it.

The NFL has refused to include officiating in replays. It has a problem. The best time to correct this abyss us yesterday.

'78 no one is saying that the NFL doesn't have an issue with the officiating... in fact I have mentioned it already. I also agree they need to fix it, but this doesn't raise it to the level to replay the last 1:48 of a playoff game. With sponsors, teams, etc... already doing their things. The NFL isn't about fairness it's about making money. Do you think they are going to stop that cash cow, for a play where the Saints still had two opportunities to put the game away and didn't?

 

[TheDouglas78]

Pop quiz for you Doug. Just suppose that they made the right call there. What do you think the next four plays would have been? How much time do you think would be left on the clock after those four plays?

Zambo, they most likely due to the momentum and how they had played with 3 leaving probably about 20-30 seconds left with their timeouts in pocket. And I also agree if it was called correctly, the Saints probably win. But can you say with 100% accuracy that the Saints would have won? Hell with a 3 point lead and one of the leagues best defenses on the field, the probably is they win there as well.

 

[gingerlover]

Horrible officiating in both games at critical points. They missed this call and on the Rams previous drive a face mask that would have given the Rams first and goal. Don’t even get me started on some of the “roughing the passer” calls in the New England game.

 

[5-Star Finger]

The bad call changed the outcome. Even if the Saints get held to a field goal the Rams get the ball back with 20 seconds (or less) on the clock and no time outs needing a field goal to tie. A tackle in bounds and the game is pretty much over because you don't have time to run another play and get the field goal team on the field with the clock running.

 

[Zambo]

Zambo, they most likely due to the momentum and how they had played with 3 leaving probably about 20-30 seconds left with their timeouts in pocket. And I also agree if it was called correctly, the Saints probably win. But can you say with 100% accuracy that the Saints would have won? Hell with a 3 point lead and one of the leagues best defenses on the field, the probably is they win there as well.

Wrong.

 

[MJMGator]

Dougie likes to argue no matter how wrong he is.

 

[78]

'78 no one is saying that the NFL doesn't have an issue with the officiating... in fact I have mentioned it already. I also agree they need to fix it, but this doesn't raise it to the level to replay the last 1:48 of a playoff game. With sponsors, teams, etc... already doing their things. The NFL isn't about fairness it's about making money. Do you think they are going to stop that cash cow, for a play where the Saints still had two opportunities to put the game away and didn't?

They might not, but that doesn't prevent us from discussing right and wrong. What happened yesterday was wrong. There's a huge public backlash over it. I'm pretty sure the NFL doesn't need to add to an already badly tarnished image a few weeks from the biggest money grab of the season.

 

[MJMGator]

It really doesn’t matter since the Pats will school either one.

 

[Zambo]

My guess is that following this travesty, the league will institute the ability to make the call from the league office on cases such as this. Basically, there will be a limited ability to review penalties. In college, they already review plays to see if targeting occurred. I don't think we'll see many of these reviews, but in the last couple minutes of big games, plays as egregious as this one might be corrected. I mean this was so obvious and had such a huge impact that the league had already admitted they blew the call before they even had postgame press conferences. It literally changed which team goes to the super bowl. Inexcusable.

 

[78]

It really doesn’t matter since the Pats will school either one.

The last time the LA Rams went to the Super Bowl, they were trounced by a big fat, bald, manic-depressive dunce who lunched on fifth-graders. No word on whether the Rams ever asked for a view of his schlong.

 

[TheDouglas78]

Wrong.

And how is that wrong? Saying wrong without evidence doesn't make it wrong. I guess it was wrong that the Saints had two different chances of winning the game after the play in question, and failed to do so?